12-11-2013, 11:19 AM #41
12-11-2013, 11:39 AM #42
The current coaching staff were not Spielman's hires. The most recent draft picks and FA signings are his and he has brought in some good talent. Talent is useless without good coaches. Can Spielman bring in the right coaches and will the Wilf's allow him to do it. This offseason would be a good time to give him a shot at it.
But, I do agree that good teams find value in any draft regardless of where they pick. Picking early, really just equates to one more quality pick than those picking at the end of the first round. Those that continue to pick early in the draft are about as competent at picking players in the draft as we are. Then there's Jerry....
12-11-2013, 12:01 PM #43
I root for the vikings to win every game, but on a season like this, I tend to focus more on individual players and their success. AP last year, and the development of Patterson this year for instance. Loses no longer upset me, but then, I do not expect much from this coaching staff.
I could never root for my team to lose, but I'm also not in a position to dictate to others how THEY feel about our team, nor what constitutes a "good fan". We are expected to give the players a hundred chances when they screw up off the field, to never boo our team when they give up or not play up to the money they are being paid, pay huge amounts of hard earned money for tickets and food, and forgive complete incompetence...but we are not allowed to secretly hope our win/loss record gives us draft picks so we get better?
You root for your team how you wish; I would not want to be watching a game with a Vikings fan who is openly cheering for us to lose, it would kinda piss me off. But I will not tell them they are not a fan either. My expectation for die-hard loyalty died with free agency and the greed therein.Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.
12-11-2013, 12:20 PM #44Coordinator
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
The owners have to step out of the way and let the GM they hire do his thing, and the GM needs to leave the coaching to the coaches he selects and hires.
Meddling owners and GMs subvert the long term stability required for consistent success.
Unless the owners are willing to set up this structure, it will be difficult to build an organization without dysfunction.
They may wish to hire a consultant to assist Spielman in QB selection since he has been a failure in that department.
12-11-2013, 02:12 PM #45Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.
12-11-2013, 02:24 PM #46
12-11-2013, 02:31 PM #47
Minnesota Vikings: Erin Henderson wasn't Plan A at MLB - ESPN
Also, the signing of Josh Freeman was 100% Spielman. That is widely available knowledge.
Spielman: Signing Josh Freeman 'by no means' reflects Ponder failure - Minnesota Vikings news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings
Despite Kingpin referring to many of these decisions as Frazier's, Spielman actually has a lot (if not most) of the say on the roster.Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.
12-11-2013, 02:45 PM #48
If Spielman was responsible for Freeman's signing, Frazier was responsible for that Monday Night monstrosity. That was as close of a NFL temper tantrum as I have ever seen, he went out and made SURE Freeman would fail. Someone like that should not be a head coach.
As far as Henderson, I got the distinct impression Spielman made a lot of last year's draft decisions with less say going to Frazier than he wanted. More and more, this is developing into a GM-Coach power struggle, and Frazier doesn't mind our team going into the shitter if he doesn't get his way.
I personally would give Spielman a "one or done" last season to prove he is doing well, and give him the chance to pick his own coach to make that happen. I cannot complain about last year's draft, and the Patterson move was brilliant. There were a lot of teams refusing to consider him due to the lack of experience, and Spielman put what was left of his reputation on the line to get him.
Last edited by drewlovs; 12-11-2013 at 02:48 PM.Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.
12-11-2013, 04:03 PM #49
Frazier may have preferred Brinkley, and from the aspect of renewing contracts, that does probably fall to Spielman, but once the roster is set, Frazier takes over who plays and where. Frazier made the decision to move Henderson to MLB because he wanted someone with knowledge in the Vikings system running the defense. If it was Spielman's choice he would have put his new FA (Bishop) in from the start.
On Freeman, I don't know what the story is on this deal. I suspect Spielman saw a chance to get a potential starting QB talent and had the opportunity to add him to the roster without a lot of investment/commitment. However, Frazier should still have the decision on whether he should start. Spielman may have pushed Frazier to get him out there and once he flopped he relinquished back to Frazier and Frazier picks the devil he knows.
12-12-2013, 08:34 AM #50
If, as you say, Frazier was responsible for starting Henderson over Cole, who was also cut mid-season, then he is completely incapable of evaluating talent during practice and preseason. Cole didn't just step into the MLB position and MIRACULOUSLY become a good linebacker, he's simply a very good linebacker that got overlooked because of his age and perceived lack of experience... it obviously had nothing to do with his talent on the field. It couldn't have.
It's similar to what's going on with Patterson... our staff simply refused to get these players involved until recently, blaming the players for "not knowing the playbook." In reality, it is our coach's complete lack of ingenuity and imagination to be able to get these guys involved on the field. (similar to when Childress was starting Bobby Wade and Bernard Berrian over Sydney Rice, until Favre came in during the 2009 season and had the conversation with Childress on the sideline during a mic'ed up segment. He told Childress that no one can cover Sidney Rice... Childress responded with "You've always said that." to which Favre flat-out said, "Maybe now you'll listen to me." Rice went on to have 1,300 yards and 8 TDs.)
For whatever reason, our coaches either don't like getting young talent involved in the game plan or they simply aren't intelligent enough to adapt their gameplan to the talent on their roster... either way, it's hurt the team for the past 7 years.
Last edited by C Mac D; 12-12-2013 at 08:37 AM.Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.