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  1. #21
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101629
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101624
    .......sigh......

    Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

    How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

    As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

    We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

    That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.
    And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

    But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

    Caine
    I was gonna post but you took care of it. Nice work as always.

    It has been a while....

  2. #22
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101636
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101629
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101624
    .......sigh......

    Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

    How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

    As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

    We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

    That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.
    And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

    But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

    Caine
    How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

    Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

    Facts, not hate.
    That is not fact. You proved nothing except your hate for Favre.

  3. #23
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1101654
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101636
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101629
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101624
    .......sigh......

    Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

    How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

    As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

    We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

    That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.
    And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

    But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

    Caine
    How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch?
    2 TD's, 13 catches, 174 yards. would equate to 52 catches, 696 yards, 8 TD's, better production than Berrian and Rice, 100 yards shy of Harvin. Of course, you can't look past the single game total of 1 rec. 8 yards vs. the Pats.
    Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.
    Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
    287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
    71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
    2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
    .5td/g vs. .357td/g
    19 catches, 26% of his season total.
    4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

    So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

    But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.

    Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.
    Hmm... interesting concept. Let's check the math.
    Rice played weeks 11-16, 6 games, 37.5% of the season
    During those games, Harvin missed two games, so it's not fair to go by total stats, lets do averages. During those games Harvin had:

    19 catches: 26% of season total
    4.75 rec/g -> Season average: 5.07
    216 yards: 24.8% of season total
    54 ypg -> season average: 62 ypg
    1 TD: -> 20% of season total
    0.25 td/g -> season average: .3125


    So yet again, you speak directly through your ass, as Harvin not only had better total stats during Moss' tenure in most categories, he had far better average stats as well per game during moss' tenure than whan Rice played.


    Facts, not hate.
    Yup. That's a good one Marty, I'm going to remember it.

    P.S.
    *crickets*

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1101642
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101641
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101636
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101629
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101624
    .......sigh......

    Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

    How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

    As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

    We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

    That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.
    And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

    But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

    Caine
    How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

    Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

    Facts, not hate.
    Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

    I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

    But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

    Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

    Caine
    I co-sign this Caine.
    Moss and BB can move both safeties. This will open up the middle for Harvin and Shank. Last season we couldn't take the top off the defense and Shank was forced to stay in and block. When Moss joined our offense clicked and we almost beat both the Jets and the Pats in very close games.
    OK, I'm gonna take the time, get the calculator out and see what the numbers show.

    I know what film showed, he did not command double teams. He did not catch the ball and he did not score TD's.

    I might find that Harvins numbers went up, but I bet its not by much and I bet I will find that if I compared games were Rice played, vs when Moss played, Harvins numbers will be down.

    Hell, I can bet that if I put up the first game after Moss left, I will find that the team put up over 400 yards passing, first ever for the Noodle.

    Not sure how I'm gonna find that Moss made the team better but I'll play.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101757
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1101642
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101641
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101636
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101629
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101624
    .......sigh......

    Didn't you get enough of putting two recievers on the field who only run 8 and 9 routes last year?

    How effective were we with Moss and Berrian?

    As I've said in the other 8 threads asking to get Moss back....

    We don't need another outside burner. We need an inside guy that can run a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 route and be a Red Zone threat when the team gets in there.

    That takes a guy who can out muscle defenders. Randy isn't doing that for us.
    And despite your oversimplification, you failed to address the fact that we STATISTICALLY improved our passing game while also improving our running game simply by adding Moss to the equation. In fact, we were better with Moss than with Rice.

    But why let little things like FACTS stand in the way. This wouldn't be the first blind player-hate road you've walked.

    Caine
    How many catches did he have? How many TD's did he catch? Did Harvins numbers go up? You said they did, I never double checked you.

    Problem is, Harvins numbers would have also gone up with Rice on the field and so would have the Noodles numbers cause Rice would have caught a few more balls/scored a few more TD's.

    Facts, not hate.
    Fact is that all of this was explained LONG ago - When Moss was here the receiving production went up,. and the running game improved...moreso that when Rice was back.

    I posted all the stats (pulled from NFL.com - not BleacherReport) at the time.

    But you keep trying to refute them with empty BS.

    Fact is, Moss would improve our receiver corps...just like he did last time. Even if he and Berrian can only run streaks, that still gives us a vertical game we've lacked (since Berrian can't separate). And, that puts Percy BACK in the slot where he is most effective. Sure, we lose the possession guy we had in Rice....but we didn't have that last season either.

    Caine
    I co-sign this Caine.
    Moss and BB can move both safeties. This will open up the middle for Harvin and Shank. Last season we couldn't take the top off the defense and Shank was forced to stay in and block. When Moss joined our offense clicked and we almost beat both the Jets and the Pats in very close games.
    OK, I'm gonna take the time, get the calculator out and see what the numbers show.

    I know what film showed, he did not command double teams. He did not catch the ball and he did not score TD's.

    I might find that Harvins numbers went up, but I bet its not by much and I bet I will find that if I compared games were Rice played, vs when Moss played, Harvins numbers will be down.

    Hell, I can bet that if I put up the first game after Moss left, I will find that the team put up over 400 yards passing, first ever for the Noodle.

    Not sure how I'm gonna find that Moss made the team better but I'll play.
    I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

    Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

    Facts, not Hate

  6. #26
    Tad7's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    I thought Moss pissed me off last year enough to where I'd never like him again. For that catering incident that is, not the hating Childress thing. But I was wrong...I'm over it, bring him back!
    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

    X MARKS THE SPOT

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Team with Noodle and without Moss
    1 9-Sep Brett Favre 171 Adrian Peterson 87 [strike]Percy Harvin 2[/strike] (76 Shanc)
    2 19-Sep Brett Favre 225 Adrian Peterson 145 Shanc 86
    3 26-Sep Brett Favre 201 Adrian Peterson 160 Percy Harvin 62
    4 Bye
    9 7-Nov Brett Favre 446 Adrian Peterson 81 Percy Harvin 126
    10 14-Nov Brett Favre 170 Adrian Peterson 57 [strike]Percy Harvin 12 [/strike](Rice 56)
    11 21-Nov Brett Favre 208 Adrian Peterson 72 Percy Harvin 64
    12 28-Nov Brett Favre 172 Toby Gerhart 76 Percy Harvin 32 (Shanc 59)
    Pasing 1593/227.5 Rushing 678/96.8 Recieving 529/75.5 (Percy 284/71)

    Team with Noodle and Moss
    5 11-Oct Brett Favre 264 Adrian Peterson 88 Percy Harvin 97
    6 17-Oct Brett Favre 118 Adrian Peterson 73 Percy Harvin 21 (Moss 55)
    7 24-Oct Brett Favre 212 Adrian Peterson 131 Percy Harvin 65 (Moss 30)
    8 31-Oct Brett Favre 259 Adrian Peterson 92 Percy Harvin 104
    Passing 853/213.2 384/96 Rushing 321/80.2 Recieving 287/71.5 (Percy 287/71.5)

    Hmmmmmmm.

    The Noodle was better without Moss.
    Rushing dropped signigicantly
    Receiving was better by about 5 yards
    Percy was better by .5 yards = Push (I threw out weeks 1, 2, and 3 due to illness)

    Tell me again why he is worth another try? 5 extra yards in passing? Yup, thats really gonna help.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1101759
    I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

    Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

    Facts, not Hate
    Nope, didn't ignore, just knew you were wrong.

    As I guessed, Caine calls it pulling something out of my ass, having Moss didn't do anything for this team at least not to the point it is worth bringing all the drama back.

    Go out and get someone that can be productive I say. Not someone who was great once and isn't anymore.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1101770
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1101759
    I see you completely ignored my post, where I addressed all of those points with statistical evidence, and yet again, you were wrong.

    Harvin had better production while Moss was there than with Rice. Plain and Simple.

    Facts, not Hate
    Nope, didn't ignore, just knew you were wrong.

    As I guessed, Caine calls it pulling something out of my ass, having Moss didn't do anything for this team at least not to the point it is worth bringing all the drama back.

    Go out and get someone that can be productive I say. Not someone who was great once and isn't anymore.
    Enlighten me, in what what was I wrong?

  10. #30
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why not Take yet another chance on Moss?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1101671
    Let me help you. During the 4 weeks Moss was here, he got
    287 yards,-> 33% of his season total
    71.75ypg compared to his 62 ypg avg.
    2 TD's, 40% of his season total.
    .5td/g vs. .357td/g
    19 catches, 26% of his season total.
    4.75 rec/g vs. 5.07

    So during Moss's tenure here, Harvin exceeded his seaason averages in every important category.

    But of course you choose to dismiss that as always, choosing to instead claim that Favre throwing for a career high the week Moss got released means Moss hurts the team.


    Come on. In every important category, Moss improved our offense simply by being on the field...and that includes being hamstrung by a moron HC and a unqualified OC.

    Caine
    LOL, I think you better check your math. As you can see, when someone post the actual stats your logic is flawed.

    Go back, revisist the stats page and see if you can come up with some other obscure way to try to make your point cause this isn't working.

    In short, don't help anymore..........snicker......:woohoo:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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