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  1. #21
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm sorry but we had a pretty decent core here and either let some guys go or got rid of them altogether... Please don't sit here and tell me that Arizona who hadn't had a winning season in GOD knows how long had less changes, than the vikes did!!...
    We had a talent core or a core that the fans liked?
    Seriously, that team was on a quick downward slide.
    Who from that team has done anything since they were cut/let lose that you could/can show warranted them staying?
    this just goes to show me you have no idea what your talking about... if you say core players, then obviously core would not entail you cutting them... let's look at it another way, what core players did we have that we still have that are integral parts of our team..

    Phat pat
    Kevin Williams,
    Bryant McKinnie
    Matt birk
    Darren Sharper
    antoine winfield
    Kleinsass
    Herrera
    Udeze

    I'm not sure what your talking about but that's a pretty decent core, in addition to some of the guys that are/were still here for depth..

    now look at the guys he's brought in..

    Leber/greenway
    AD
    Hutch
    MWilliams
    BB
    Bwade
    Griff
    Allen
    Edwards

    I suppose you can make a pretty damn good argument that aside while alot of the players that chilly brought in were good, a lot of the players that were part of that 9-7 team are still here.. and making very good contributions..

    and some of the players that chilly let go that i think was a mistake was Burleson, Pepp (given we got Cook's sorry ass for him), Mewelde Moore (crowd fav and by far better than Hicks)..

    so while although we lost some players, you can make a strong case for given the talent that existed, and the talent brought in, we are by far underachieving where we are now!!..

    and, that other stuff i'd address, but this was the most important part of your non-case... by and large, he didn't/or did not have to or did gut the team... most of those guys are still here and playing very well!!!

  2. #22
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    I prefer pessimism when it comes to the Vikings. Do you really expect blind faith in an organization that has failed to achieve it's goal, every year since 1961? Although I believe we could win the Superbowl, every year, deep down inside I know we are the Vikings, and the guys in purple will fall into the arms of failure. Maybe someday I will be pleasantly surprised, and the longer I wait the more pleasant it will be.

    Maybe I will start believing in the Vikings greatness as I get old and realize I may never get to see a truly great Vikings team.

    48 years with out a superbowl. Well there are 32 teams in the NFL so on average you can expect to win 1 every 32 years or so. So if the vikings win 2 with in the next 14 years we are right on pace. Doesn't seem that bad when you look at the odds.
    Think of it like a roullette table. If you keep putting a dollar on 1 number it may not come up for a while, but if it hits a couple times in a row all of a sudden you are winning big.

  3. #23
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    People are cynical bc the Vikes underachieve every year on a consistent basis, and while childress may deserve another year, we still underachieved, when since he's been here we've had probably some of the best drafts and offseason FA pickups out of all the teams in the league...
    Consistent basis........Maybe you need to revisit your teams history My Sexy Little Pixie.

    http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl...a/vikings.html

    I have alot of fond memories were we were consistent year in and year out.

    C'mon let's be realistic... AZ had entirely more problems than we had... and they just got hot at the right time... not to mention a competent QB...

    and Pitt was coming off a what? 6-10 season..?
    They've probably had as many changes as we've had in the three years since chilly was here the main constant being the QB and hines ward...
    No way in hell.
    Compare Pitts roster with thier SB roster.

    so for you or anyone else to say, our team had to be gutted.. NO IT DIDN"T!!.. some changes were made, but that happens every year... let's just call it like it is... they've both outperformed childress and done a helluva better job than he has...
    Better huh?

    Maybe you should look at it from a statistical standpoint.
    Not only were we better our first year under the Chiller, Tices last year was the end of a serious downward trend.


    Seems you are going off of feeling here vice actual data......

    Offense

    2008
    Overall - 330.5 (17th)
    - Rush 145.8 (5th) – Pass 184.8 (25th) – Pts 379 (12th)

    2007
    Overall – 336.2 (13th)
    - Rush 164.6 (1th) – Pass 171.6 (28th) – Pts 365 (15th)

    2006
    Overall – 308.9 (23rd)
    - Rush 113.8 (16th) – Pass 195.2 (18th) – Pts 282 (26th)

    2005
    Overall – 288.3 (25th)
    - Rush 91.7 (27th) – Pass 196.6 (20th) – Pts 306 (19th)

    2004
    Overall – 396.2 (4th)
    - Rush 113.9 (18th) – Pass 282.3 (2nd) – Pts 405 (6th)

    2003
    Overall – 393.42 (1rst)
    - Rush 146.4 (4th) – Pass 246.9 (4th) – Pts 416 (6th)

    Defense
    2008
    Pts/G 20.8– Yds/G 292.4– Rush Yds/G – 76.9 – Pass Yds/G 215.6 – Int 12-Sack 45

    2007
    Pts/G 19.4– Yds/G 338.1– Rush Yds/G – 74.1 – Pass Yds/G 264.1 – Int 15-Sack 38

    2006
    Pts/G 20.4– Yds/G 300.2– Rush Yds/G – 61.6 – Pass Yds/G 238.6 – Int 21-Sack 30

    2005
    Pts/G 21.5– Yds/G 323.3– Rush Yds/G – 115.1 – Pass Yds/G 208.3 – Int 24-Sack 34

    2004
    Pts/G 24.7– Yds/G 368.9– Rush Yds/G – 125.4 – Pass Yds/G 243.5 – Int 11-Sack 39

    2003
    Pts/G 22.1– Yds/G 334.8– Rush Yds/G – 117.4 – Pass Yds/G 217.3 – Int 28-Sack 37

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mi...ar=season_2006

    bc whether you want to admit it or not, we have just as much if not more talent than both of those teams... maybe even combined...


    just look at pro bowlers

    matt birk
    AD
    Winfield
    Hutch
    Kdub
    Phat pat
    sharper
    Allen

    az
    fITZ
    Boldin
    Warner
    wilson

    Pitt
    Ben
    hines ward
    james harrison
    palamalu
    farrior

    so when you break it down, i know pro bowlers don't mean everything, but we have quite a few guys that either are p.bowlers or have been in the last two years... and 1 less than both of the sb teams combined..
    I love it when people pull the "Prowbowler" numbers out thier jiggly butt as proof.

    How about the Cowboys....They had 13 of them this year.......Whats your point.....

    so when ppl say, give it time, YES, i'm one of those ppl that is willing to wait, but when you have talent like we do, it's kind of hard to justify giving someone more time!!
    More time.
    When/were did you see me asking for that.
    i changed my mind i will address some of this stuff, I used the pro bowl analogy to make a point that we have as much talent as either of those teams... i know talent doens't win ball games, so maybe that's why we should consider a new coach..

    and i said underachieved on a consistent basis... underachieving means based on talent, we should be alot better than we are.. when have you ever known the vikes to overachieve?.. maybe in 1987, but that's about it.. as far back as i can remember...

    Next, you can make stats to seem like anything you want... bottom line is, while our stats have increased arguably... what counts MARR!!?? POINTS!!!! points we were far worse...

    I'm not saying Tice is better than Chiller, although, that's debatable, i'm saying Tomlin and Wisenhut are far superior...

    and as far as Pitt and AZ go, maybe you should check out their roster.... wisenhut took a talented team on offense and made them into a superbowl team.. which by and large he changed the culture of that team... We've pretty much always had a culture of being successful... it's our underachieving based on that success and talent that is the problem... or did you not know that AZ hadn't held a playoff game at home or won one since eishenhower was in office.. damn near 50 or 60 years ago...

    to change that culture of loosing over that period of time is alot harder to do than what chilly did with more talent in 3 years...

    and as far as tomlin, yes, they went to the superbowl and won it a few years ago, but to take a team that looses half their offensive line, playmakes, such as jerome bettis, joey porter is no small feat...


  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is online now Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm sorry but we had a pretty decent core here and either let some guys go or got rid of them altogether... Please don't sit here and tell me that Arizona who hadn't had a winning season in GOD knows how long had less changes, than the vikes did!!...
    We had a talent core or a core that the fans liked?
    Seriously, that team was on a quick downward slide.
    Who from that team has done anything since they were cut/let lose that you could/can show warranted them staying?
    this just goes to show me you have no idea what your talking about... if you say core players, then obviously core would not entail you cutting them... let's look at it another way, what core players did we have that we still have that are integral parts of our team..

    Phat pat
    Kevin Williams,
    Bryant McKinnie
    Matt birk
    Darren Sharper
    antoine winfield
    Kleinsass
    Herrera
    Udeze
    Of course I don't know what I am talking about. I am just a yutz with a computer and access to the internet that lets me express my opinion.

    I do however, put a little thougth into my opinion.


    If one were to look at a few things one would see that the team the Chiller inherited wasn't getting any better, in fact it was getting worse.

    The 9-7 record wasn't anything more than a team that couldn't win on the road (especially on grass) and was a one and done trick pony in the show.


    This team is (albeit inconsistent) loaded with young talent, has a plethero of draft picks each and every year and seems to go out and get the right FA's to fix the wholes.

    Given an long term vision, I would say this team has more to offer than that team.....

    Course, what do I know..... :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    I prefer pessimism when it comes to the Vikings. Do you really expect blind faith in an organization that has failed to achieve it's goal, every year since 1961? Although I believe we could win the Superbowl, every year, deep down inside I know we are the Vikings, and the guys in purple will fall into the arms of failure. Maybe someday I will be pleasantly surprised, and the longer I wait the more pleasant it will be.

    Maybe I will start believing in the Vikings greatness as I get old and realize I may never get to see a truly great Vikings team.

    More likely, as you get old, you will realize that you did see some truly great Vikings teams, but your pessimism didn't let you recognize it...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #26
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm sorry but we had a pretty decent core here and either let some guys go or got rid of them altogether... Please don't sit here and tell me that Arizona who hadn't had a winning season in GOD knows how long had less changes, than the vikes did!!...
    We had a talent core or a core that the fans liked?
    Seriously, that team was on a quick downward slide.
    Who from that team has done anything since they were cut/let lose that you could/can show warranted them staying?
    this just goes to show me you have no idea what your talking about... if you say core players, then obviously core would not entail you cutting them... let's look at it another way, what core players did we have that we still have that are integral parts of our team..

    Phat pat
    Kevin Williams,
    Bryant McKinnie
    Matt birk
    Darren Sharper
    antoine winfield
    Kleinsass
    Herrera
    Udeze
    Of course I don't know what I am talking about. I am just a yutz with a computer and access to the internet that lets me express my opinion.

    I do however, put a little thougth into my opinion.


    If one were to look at a few things one would see that the team the Chiller inherited wasn't getting any better, in fact it was getting worse.

    The 9-7 record wasn't anything more than a team that couldn't win on the road (especially on grass) and was a one and done trick pony in the show.


    This team is (albeit inconsistent) loaded with young talent, has a plethero of draft picks each and every year and seems to go out and get the right FA's to fix the wholes.

    Given an long term vision, I would say this team has more to offer than that team.....

    Course, what do I know..... :
    I would agree that this team has more promise than the old one but I think the biggest reason for that is the ownership. Red was cutting costs everywhere, from coaches to players to scouts. I wouldn't doubt that Tice would be doing equally well if he was given an open checkbook like Chilly. I think Tice is a very good coach, he teaches the fundamentals of the game well.

  7. #27
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    ....I think Tice is a very good coach, he teaches the fundamentals of the game well.
    It's surprising that people aren't beating down the doors to hire him as a HC.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #28
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    With Ferarro out the door, I'm becoming pretty darn optimistic.
    Rock out with your cock out!!!

  9. #29
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "jkjuggalo" wrote:
    With Ferarro out the door, I'm becoming pretty darn optimistic.
    ...until you wake up in Sept. and realize you're wearing a purple Grossman jersey.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  10. #30
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    Re: Why have Viking fans become so cynical?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    ....I think Tice is a very good coach, he teaches the fundamentals of the game well.
    It's surprising that people aren't beating down the doors to hire him as a HC.
    I didn't say head coach, I said coach.

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