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  1. #21
    kalamazooer10 is offline Training Camp
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    He can't play better than last season because he'll be herding chickens in Mississippi!
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  2. #22
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    12purplepride28 wrote:
    gagarr wrote:

    Sure the other division teams have made moves to improve, but not more than the Vikes have.

    Sure GB has a year of 3-4 experience, but they've added nobody to the mix of any quality. Didn't even draft a single LB. Their offense has peaked, except for adding 2 more OT's in the draft they've really done nothing there.
    Sure the Vikes didn't add anyone to the OL, but I think the year of experience for Sully and Load, that alone is a big improvement. Also, keeping the same 5 is a good thing for chemistry.
    How can you blatantly contradict yourself like that. which is it? You say the vikings have improvement even though they didn't add anyone, just because we have another year of experience. Well why wouldn't that work for the packers and the 3-4 defense?

    The packers defense improved so much last year towards the end of the year, and another year will make them be that much better.

    The packers offense has peaked? Well if the only knock on them was that their oline sucked a big one, and they got two new OTs, I think that should help a bunch. Not to mention another year for their rookie Oline from last year.

    I think GB will win the division. I honestly hope we destroy them, but I see us splitting with them and getting in with a wild card. After the play offs start though, its anybody's guess
    1: It's pretty commonly held that line positions - especially the Offensive Line - benefit more from time together than from a constantly rotating series of people. With that in mind, the Viking O-Line has the POTENTIAL to be better because they really didn't add any new pieces to the puzzle.

    By that same logic, Green Bay has two NEW OT's...and New OT's are notoriously easy to victimize their rookie season...especially by the Elite DE's in the League. It will be at LEAST another season before the Green Bay line solidifies, despite the possibility that it MAY HAVE improved.

    2: The O-Line isn't the only knock on Green Bay's Offense. They still don't have a legit RB. Ryan Grant is an OK runner, but he's nothing special. He only rushed over 100 yards 3 times last season...all during big games, which pushed his ypc average up to 4.4 - which is respectable. But he ALSO had games this season (Against Us, Baltimore, and Detroit) where he struggled to get above 3 YPC...2.3 versus Baltimore).

    As such, teams don't have to really worry much about Green Bay's ruin game to hurt them, and they are allowed to focus on Rodgers. This will continue to plague Green Bay until they get someone more capable in the backfield.

    3: Green Bays defense might improve under Capers...and it might not. Dom Capers doesn't exactly have a history of creating dominant Defenses. Check his history. When he took over Miami's defense in '06, they ranked 4th. In '07 they ranked 23rd. In '08 they ranked 15th....


    ...not exactly a ringing endorsement....Capers got fired that year.

    So expecting dominance from Green Bay's defense might be being a bit too generous. And those corners aren't getting any younger...

    4: I see the Packers trailing us all season. I think they'll slide in with a Wildcard, but I think we take the Division again. Green Bay has a good team, but not a dominant one anymore...on either side of the ball.

    Caine

  3. #23
    Mark_The_Viking is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    Traveling_Vike wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    IMO the yardage and TDs will be there for him.

    In fact, I could see an increase in yardage:

    1. Starting the season more familiar with team
    2.a. Tougher schedule (more passing)
    2.b. Tougher schedule, fewer 4th Quarters on bench
    3. Berrian Healthy

    The big question to me is Interceptions, that's what made last year so special. But you can't have everything. Hopefully AP stops fumbling so much so it won't mean anything in the global sense.
    I agree almost completely here. I suspect an increase in passing yards and passing TDs, but also in interceptions, quite possibly a significant one. I would not be surprised to see last year's total doubled, or even more.

    I am not sure I agree that a tougher schedule necessarily equates to more passing, but I do suspect a bit more playing time for Favre (barring injury, of course), and somewhat improved protection as well, which should help.
    Not sure I agree there will be more passing yards either this year. The heavier schedule and the early bye week I think will make us more reliant on the run and I'm hoping that Toby will be a big threat in that respect. If he is then we can rely on the showing them run and letting BF audible the pass when he knows there is a clear opportunity.

    I hope he doesn't come in and ry and make up for the Saints loss, he doesn't have too, imho we nly got that far becasue of how he played and how the others stepped up to play with him.

    Opposing Ds will in no doubt attack Adrian and try to force the fumble rather than just tackle this could either be a good thing or bad depending on how he got on with solving his fumbling issue.

    I'm not getting too hyped about this season becasue for me regardless of how well he does (BF not AP) this is a hiatus year where hopefully the FO will be working on what needs to be done for the next season and ensuring there is still a franchise to work on.
    Purple till i die

  4. #24
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    Caine wrote:
    12purplepride28 wrote:
    gagarr wrote:

    Sure the other division teams have made moves to improve, but not more than the Vikes have.

    Sure GB has a year of 3-4 experience, but they've added nobody to the mix of any quality. Didn't even draft a single LB. Their offense has peaked, except for adding 2 more OT's in the draft they've really done nothing there.
    Sure the Vikes didn't add anyone to the OL, but I think the year of experience for Sully and Load, that alone is a big improvement. Also, keeping the same 5 is a good thing for chemistry.
    How can you blatantly contradict yourself like that. which is it? You say the vikings have improvement even though they didn't add anyone, just because we have another year of experience. Well why wouldn't that work for the packers and the 3-4 defense?

    The packers defense improved so much last year towards the end of the year, and another year will make them be that much better.

    The packers offense has peaked? Well if the only knock on them was that their oline sucked a big one, and they got two new OTs, I think that should help a bunch. Not to mention another year for their rookie Oline from last year.

    I think GB will win the division. I honestly hope we destroy them, but I see us splitting with them and getting in with a wild card. After the play offs start though, its anybody's guess
    1: It's pretty commonly held that line positions - especially the Offensive Line - benefit more from time together than from a constantly rotating series of people. With that in mind, the Viking O-Line has the POTENTIAL to be better because they really didn't add any new pieces to the puzzle.

    By that same logic, Green Bay has two NEW OT's...and New OT's are notoriously easy to victimize their rookie season...especially by the Elite DE's in the League. It will be at LEAST another season before the Green Bay line solidifies, despite the possibility that it MAY HAVE improved.

    2: The O-Line isn't the only knock on Green Bay's Offense. They still don't have a legit RB. Ryan Grant is an OK runner, but he's nothing special. He only rushed over 100 yards 3 times last season...all during big games, which pushed his ypc average up to 4.4 - which is respectable. But he ALSO had games this season (Against Us, Baltimore, and Detroit) where he struggled to get above 3 YPC...2.3 versus Baltimore).

    As such, teams don't have to really worry much about Green Bay's ruin game to hurt them, and they are allowed to focus on Rodgers. This will continue to plague Green Bay until they get someone more capable in the backfield.

    3: Green Bays defense might improve under Capers...and it might not. Dom Capers doesn't exactly have a history of creating dominant Defenses. Check his history. When he took over Miami's defense in '06, they ranked 4th. In '07 they ranked 23rd. In '08 they ranked 15th....


    ...not exactly a ringing endorsement....Capers got fired that year.

    So expecting dominance from Green Bay's defense might be being a bit too generous. And those corners aren't getting any younger...

    4: I see the Packers trailing us all season. I think they'll slide in with a Wildcard, but I think we take the Division again. Green Bay has a good team, but not a dominant one anymore...on either side of the ball.

    Caine
    I also have some reservations about GBs Defense, I think they left everything on the field last year making the transition to the 3-4. Capers squeezed everything out of them.

    If they had better pass rushers I would think they could maintain their success, but, I think that teams will respond to GBs/Capers schemes and moderate GBs success this year, (especially by the end of the year). Plus, repeating the secondaries TO success will be very difficult.
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  5. #25
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    I really don't see how you all think the Packers all of a sudden won't be good.

    They had a very good defense last year, and an elite offense.

    They lost Kampman, who was a liability, have a year under Raji and Matthew's belt. That can really only help. Their LB's will ahve played together a year, and that chemistry is important in the 3-4. The DL will have figured out the 3-4 by now. They should be very good again.

    The concern should be corner, if Whoopie and Woodson degress, or keep playing at a high level. Their S's aren't bad, better than we have. I honestly think their D can be better than ours.

    O will be hit or miss. As mentioned, Grant's not that good, but their issue was terrible OL play. Worst case scenario, the two new OT's suck, and they're in the same spot. Best, they improve the play, and Allen doesn't get 7.5 of his 14.5 sacks vs. the Packers this year.

    Rodgers will only get better, Jennings is still very good, Driver won't get better, but is still effective, and Finley COULD be a real threat. he's a big athletic receiver, just like Shank. They could just as easily sweep us as we could sweep them. Its really a tossup at this point.

    You mention Capers really never sticking around, and the thing I see differently with the packers, is they had alot of the players in place already when he came here. They had the DE's they needed, they had athletic LB's. They didn't have to do a complete overhaul, which helped accelerate the learning curve. That hasn't always been the case on other teams.

  6. #26
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I really don't see how you all think the Packers all of a sudden won't be good.

    They had a very good defense last year, and an elite offense.

    They lost Kampman, who was a liability, have a year under Raji and Matthew's belt. That can really only help. Their LB's will ahve played together a year, and that chemistry is important in the 3-4. The DL will have figured out the 3-4 by now. They should be very good again.

    The concern should be corner, if Whoopie and Woodson degress, or keep playing at a high level. Their S's aren't bad, better than we have. I honestly think their D can be better than ours.

    O will be hit or miss. As mentioned, Grant's not that good, but their issue was terrible OL play. Worst case scenario, the two new OT's suck, and they're in the same spot. Best, they improve the play, and Allen doesn't get 7.5 of his 14.5 sacks vs. the Packers this year.

    Rodgers will only get better, Jennings is still very good, Driver won't get better, but is still effective, and Finley COULD be a real threat. he's a big athletic receiver, just like Shank. They could just as easily sweep us as we could sweep them. Its really a tossup at this point.

    You mention Capers really never sticking around, and the thing I see differently with the packers, is they had alot of the players in place already when he came here. They had the DE's they needed, they had athletic LB's. They didn't have to do a complete overhaul, which helped accelerate the learning curve. That hasn't always been the case on other teams.
    I didn't say they won't be GOOD...I said we'll be better.

    AS I pointed out above, their Offense has a couple of critical holes in it. And their O-Line issues won't be cured THIS YEAR by the drafted rookies...they'll likely be victimized a bit this year until they get up to speed. Just Like we all believe Loadholt will be better this year - his second.

    I didn't list Rodgers and the Receivers as liabilities because they're not. Rodgers was fortunate to have an excellent group in place when he took over for Favre...that was the best corps Favre ever had to work with. I wonder how well Rodgers will do with lesser players?

    But Grant IS a liability. No one really respects the Packer running game...evidenced last year by their desperate reacquisition of Ahman Green. Until they can get a legit running threat back there to take some heat off of Rodgers, he'll continue to run for his life most games.

    That said, Green Bay wins and loses on Rodger's arm. In all but 4 games last season Rodgers was the more prolific QB. Only Cutler (twice), Romo, and Roethlisberger (who put up over 500 yards that game) out produced Rodgers when they played.

    As for the Defense - I simply stated that despite everyone clamoring that they will be much better, I doubt they will be. I don't think they're going to see a dramatic improvement this year at all. I think they'll be GOOD - they might be a bit better - but overall they won't be leaps and bounds better.

    And neither will we.

    And their secondary is another year older...the same concern I voice about several of our key players.

    Green Bays defense had THIRTY interceptions last season. 30!!! They were #1 in the NFL. We had eleven. Do I think they'll be that prolific again next year? No.

    They generated 37 sacks, ranking them 11th in the NFL. Do I think they'll significantly improve there? No. In fact, I suspect that once teams start accounting for Matthews, you'll see that number slide a bit.

    They had a FRIGHTENING +24 turn over ratio (We had a +6), and despite that HUGE advantage were still trailing us at the end of the season by a game.

    Bottom line, how much better do you really think they're going to get? Aside from the "year to get better" argument, what else have they done to address personnel issues?

    Answer? Nothing. Thompson doesn't do Free Agency. He's a draft guy. That's why he got Seattle CLOSE, but couldn't get them to the dance (They went they year AFTER he got fired).

    So, while Green Bay IS dangerous, and they COULD sweep us and win the Division, I simply think we're better. And, unless we get "Chillered", I think we'll sweep them again this season. Had we not suffered a Defensive let-down, we pretty much manhandled them in the second game.

    Caine

  7. #27
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    Caine wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I really don't see how you all think the Packers all of a sudden won't be good.

    They had a very good defense last year, and an elite offense.

    They lost Kampman, who was a liability, have a year under Raji and Matthew's belt. That can really only help. Their LB's will ahve played together a year, and that chemistry is important in the 3-4. The DL will have figured out the 3-4 by now. They should be very good again.

    The concern should be corner, if Whoopie and Woodson degress, or keep playing at a high level. Their S's aren't bad, better than we have. I honestly think their D can be better than ours.

    O will be hit or miss. As mentioned, Grant's not that good, but their issue was terrible OL play. Worst case scenario, the two new OT's suck, and they're in the same spot. Best, they improve the play, and Allen doesn't get 7.5 of his 14.5 sacks vs. the Packers this year.

    Rodgers will only get better, Jennings is still very good, Driver won't get better, but is still effective, and Finley COULD be a real threat. he's a big athletic receiver, just like Shank. They could just as easily sweep us as we could sweep them. Its really a tossup at this point.

    You mention Capers really never sticking around, and the thing I see differently with the packers, is they had alot of the players in place already when he came here. They had the DE's they needed, they had athletic LB's. They didn't have to do a complete overhaul, which helped accelerate the learning curve. That hasn't always been the case on other teams.
    I didn't say they won't be GOOD...I said we'll be better.

    AS I pointed out above, their Offense has a couple of critical holes in it. And their O-Line issues won't be cured THIS YEAR by the drafted rookies...they'll likely be victimized a bit this year until they get up to speed. Just Like we all believe Loadholt will be better this year - his second.
    Yet, won't we agree Loadholt was an improvemnt as a rookie than anybody who started there last year?
    I didn't list Rodgers and the Receivers as liabilities because they're not. Rodgers was fortunate to have an excellent group in place when he took over for Favre...that was the best corps Favre ever had to work with. I wonder how well Rodgers will do with lesser players?

    But Grant IS a liability. No one really respects the Packer running game...evidenced last year by their desperate reacquisition of Ahman Green. Until they can get a legit running threat back there to take some heat off of Rodgers, he'll continue to run for his life most games.

    That said, Green Bay wins and loses on Rodger's arm. In all but 4 games last season Rodgers was the more prolific QB. Only Cutler (twice), Romo, and Roethlisberger (who put up over 500 yards that game) out produced Rodgers when they played.
    I can agree with that.

    As for the Defense - I simply stated that despite everyone clamoring that they will be much better, I doubt they will be. I don't think they're going to see a dramatic improvement this year at all. I think they'll be GOOD - they might be a bit better - but overall they won't be leaps and bounds better.[/quote] I agree, but people who think we'll all of a sudden be better on D, but they'll suffer need to re-think that. We'll both have some pretty good Defense. if their D was better than ours, I wouldn't be shocked.

    Green Bays defense had THIRTY interceptions last season. 30!!! They were #1 in the NFL. We had eleven. Do I think they'll be that prolific again next year? No.
    I'd agree if that were an isolated incident, but its not.

    2009: 30 int's (1st)
    2008: 22 (3rd)
    2007: 19 (6th)
    2006: 23 (3rd)

    So tell me, what do you see that makes you think there will be a significant drop-off. They likely won't get 30, but even 20 INT's is a damn good season by any standards.

    They generated 37 sacks, ranking them 11th in the NFL. Do I think they'll significantly improve there? No. In fact, I suspect that once teams start accounting for Matthews, you'll see that number slide a bit.
    Again, based on what? Their LB's are fast, and they run a 3-4, which is good at generating sacks with the proper blitzes.

    They had a FRIGHTENING +24 turn over ratio (We had a +6), and despite that HUGE advantage were still trailing us at the end of the season by a game.
    Valid point. However, that comes due to us not turning the ball ove rmuch, but also not forcing many turnovers.

    Bottom line, how much better do you really think they're going to get? Aside from the "year to get better" argument, what else have they done to address personnel issues?
    I'm not saying they're all of a sudden superbowl favourites.

    If they made the superbowl, I woudln't be shocked, but they're not my top 3 choice in the NFC.
    So, while Green Bay IS dangerous, and they COULD sweep us and win the Division, I simply think we're better. And, unless we get "Chillered", I think we'll sweep them again this season. Had we not suffered a Defensive let-down, we pretty much manhandled them in the second game.
    Again, agreed. I think we're a better team, my comments aren't directed at those who think we're better, but those who are ruling them out already. They will contend for the division, and they might even beat us.

  8. #28
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I really don't see how you all think the Packers all of a sudden won't be good.

    They had a very good defense last year, and an elite offense.

    They lost Kampman, who was a liability, have a year under Raji and Matthew's belt. That can really only help. Their LB's will ahve played together a year, and that chemistry is important in the 3-4. The DL will have figured out the 3-4 by now. They should be very good again.

    The concern should be corner, if Whoopie and Woodson degress, or keep playing at a high level. Their S's aren't bad, better than we have. I honestly think their D can be better than ours.

    O will be hit or miss. As mentioned, Grant's not that good, but their issue was terrible OL play. Worst case scenario, the two new OT's suck, and they're in the same spot. Best, they improve the play, and Allen doesn't get 7.5 of his 14.5 sacks vs. the Packers this year.

    Rodgers will only get better, Jennings is still very good, Driver won't get better, but is still effective, and Finley COULD be a real threat. he's a big athletic receiver, just like Shank. They could just as easily sweep us as we could sweep them. Its really a tossup at this point.

    You mention Capers really never sticking around, and the thing I see differently with the packers, is they had alot of the players in place already when he came here. They had the DE's they needed, they had athletic LB's. They didn't have to do a complete overhaul, which helped accelerate the learning curve. That hasn't always been the case on other teams.
    I didn't say they won't be GOOD...I said we'll be better.

    AS I pointed out above, their Offense has a couple of critical holes in it. And their O-Line issues won't be cured THIS YEAR by the drafted rookies...they'll likely be victimized a bit this year until they get up to speed. Just Like we all believe Loadholt will be better this year - his second.
    Yet, won't we agree Loadholt was an improvemnt as a rookie than anybody who started there last year?
    I didn't list Rodgers and the Receivers as liabilities because they're not. Rodgers was fortunate to have an excellent group in place when he took over for Favre...that was the best corps Favre ever had to work with. I wonder how well Rodgers will do with lesser players?

    But Grant IS a liability. No one really respects the Packer running game...evidenced last year by their desperate reacquisition of Ahman Green. Until they can get a legit running threat back there to take some heat off of Rodgers, he'll continue to run for his life most games.

    That said, Green Bay wins and loses on Rodger's arm. In all but 4 games last season Rodgers was the more prolific QB. Only Cutler (twice), Romo, and Roethlisberger (who put up over 500 yards that game) out produced Rodgers when they played.
    I can agree with that.

    As for the Defense - I simply stated that despite everyone clamoring that they will be much better, I doubt they will be. I don't think they're going to see a dramatic improvement this year at all. I think they'll be GOOD - they might be a bit better - but overall they won't be leaps and bounds better.
    I agree, but people who think we'll all of a sudden be better on D, but they'll suffer need to re-think that. We'll both have some pretty good Defense. if their D was better than ours, I wouldn't be shocked.

    Green Bays defense had THIRTY interceptions last season. 30!!! They were #1 in the NFL. We had eleven. Do I think they'll be that prolific again next year? No.
    I'd agree if that were an isolated incident, but its not.

    2009: 30 int's (1st)
    2008: 22 (3rd)
    2007: 19 (6th)
    2006: 23 (3rd)

    So tell me, what do you see that makes you think there will be a significant drop-off. They likely won't get 30, but even 20 INT's is a damn good season by any standards.

    They generated 37 sacks, ranking them 11th in the NFL. Do I think they'll significantly improve there? No. In fact, I suspect that once teams start accounting for Matthews, you'll see that number slide a bit.
    Again, based on what? Their LB's are fast, and they run a 3-4, which is good at generating sacks with the proper blitzes.

    They had a FRIGHTENING +24 turn over ratio (We had a +6), and despite that HUGE advantage were still trailing us at the end of the season by a game.
    Valid point. However, that comes due to us not turning the ball ove rmuch, but also not forcing many turnovers.

    Bottom line, how much better do you really think they're going to get? Aside from the "year to get better" argument, what else have they done to address personnel issues?
    I'm not saying they're all of a sudden superbowl favourites.

    If they made the superbowl, I woudln't be shocked, but they're not my top 3 choice in the NFC.
    So, while Green Bay IS dangerous, and they COULD sweep us and win the Division, I simply think we're better. And, unless we get "Chillered", I think we'll sweep them again this season. Had we not suffered a Defensive let-down, we pretty much manhandled them in the second game.
    Again, agreed. I think we're a better team, my comments aren't directed at those who think we're better, but those who are ruling them out already. They will contend for the division, and they might even beat us.
    Aside from a handful of "ticky-tacky" points, you and I are pretty close on this issue. Despite my feeling that we are the superior team, I never overlook Green Bay...or Detroit for that matter. They ARE dangerous.

    That said, I just don't see them being THAT much better this season. Woodson had a magical year, but at 33 years old, how much longer can he maintain that level of play? Whoopie Goldberg is 35 and has been injury plagued the last 2 seasons. He can't go man-to-man with Elite receivers anymore. Atari Bigby has had injury issues and has never recaptured his 2007 form. The only one rock solid is Collins.

    My main point of contention is this media fascination with claiming that Capers is some kind of 3-4 guru. Truth is, he really isn't. Remember how they used to try and sell Ted Cotrell that way too? As a "Defensive Mastermind"? Yet every year, any Defense Ted took control of got WORSE...Capers has a similar history.

    So, again, Green Bay is dangerous...and they'll make some noise this season. But I don't see them being at our level with Favre under center. If Jackson is under center, Green Bay sweeps us, but Favre makes our offense - and our team - so much better that I think we beat up on Green Bay again this season.

    Caine

  9. #29
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    Caine wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I really don't see how you all think the Packers all of a sudden won't be good.

    They had a very good defense last year, and an elite offense.

    They lost Kampman, who was a liability, have a year under Raji and Matthew's belt. That can really only help. Their LB's will ahve played together a year, and that chemistry is important in the 3-4. The DL will have figured out the 3-4 by now. They should be very good again.

    The concern should be corner, if Whoopie and Woodson degress, or keep playing at a high level. Their S's aren't bad, better than we have. I honestly think their D can be better than ours.

    O will be hit or miss. As mentioned, Grant's not that good, but their issue was terrible OL play. Worst case scenario, the two new OT's suck, and they're in the same spot. Best, they improve the play, and Allen doesn't get 7.5 of his 14.5 sacks vs. the Packers this year.

    Rodgers will only get better, Jennings is still very good, Driver won't get better, but is still effective, and Finley COULD be a real threat. he's a big athletic receiver, just like Shank. They could just as easily sweep us as we could sweep them. Its really a tossup at this point.

    You mention Capers really never sticking around, and the thing I see differently with the packers, is they had alot of the players in place already when he came here. They had the DE's they needed, they had athletic LB's. They didn't have to do a complete overhaul, which helped accelerate the learning curve. That hasn't always been the case on other teams.
    I didn't say they won't be GOOD...I said we'll be better.

    AS I pointed out above, their Offense has a couple of critical holes in it. And their O-Line issues won't be cured THIS YEAR by the drafted rookies...they'll likely be victimized a bit this year until they get up to speed. Just Like we all believe Loadholt will be better this year - his second.
    Yet, won't we agree Loadholt was an improvemnt as a rookie than anybody who started there last year?
    I didn't list Rodgers and the Receivers as liabilities because they're not. Rodgers was fortunate to have an excellent group in place when he took over for Favre...that was the best corps Favre ever had to work with. I wonder how well Rodgers will do with lesser players?

    But Grant IS a liability. No one really respects the Packer running game...evidenced last year by their desperate reacquisition of Ahman Green. Until they can get a legit running threat back there to take some heat off of Rodgers, he'll continue to run for his life most games.

    That said, Green Bay wins and loses on Rodger's arm. In all but 4 games last season Rodgers was the more prolific QB. Only Cutler (twice), Romo, and Roethlisberger (who put up over 500 yards that game) out produced Rodgers when they played.
    I can agree with that.

    As for the Defense - I simply stated that despite everyone clamoring that they will be much better, I doubt they will be. I don't think they're going to see a dramatic improvement this year at all. I think they'll be GOOD - they might be a bit better - but overall they won't be leaps and bounds better.
    I agree, but people who think we'll all of a sudden be better on D, but they'll suffer need to re-think that. We'll both have some pretty good Defense. if their D was better than ours, I wouldn't be shocked.

    Green Bays defense had THIRTY interceptions last season. 30!!! They were #1 in the NFL. We had eleven. Do I think they'll be that prolific again next year? No.
    I'd agree if that were an isolated incident, but its not.

    2009: 30 int's (1st)
    2008: 22 (3rd)
    2007: 19 (6th)
    2006: 23 (3rd)

    So tell me, what do you see that makes you think there will be a significant drop-off. They likely won't get 30, but even 20 INT's is a damn good season by any standards.

    They generated 37 sacks, ranking them 11th in the NFL. Do I think they'll significantly improve there? No. In fact, I suspect that once teams start accounting for Matthews, you'll see that number slide a bit.
    Again, based on what? Their LB's are fast, and they run a 3-4, which is good at generating sacks with the proper blitzes.

    They had a FRIGHTENING +24 turn over ratio (We had a +6), and despite that HUGE advantage were still trailing us at the end of the season by a game.
    Valid point. However, that comes due to us not turning the ball ove rmuch, but also not forcing many turnovers.

    Bottom line, how much better do you really think they're going to get? Aside from the "year to get better" argument, what else have they done to address personnel issues?
    I'm not saying they're all of a sudden superbowl favourites.

    If they made the superbowl, I woudln't be shocked, but they're not my top 3 choice in the NFC.
    So, while Green Bay IS dangerous, and they COULD sweep us and win the Division, I simply think we're better. And, unless we get "Chillered", I think we'll sweep them again this season. Had we not suffered a Defensive let-down, we pretty much manhandled them in the second game.
    Again, agreed. I think we're a better team, my comments aren't directed at those who think we're better, but those who are ruling them out already. They will contend for the division, and they might even beat us.
    Aside from a handful of "ticky-tacky" points, you and I are pretty close on this issue. Despite my feeling that we are the superior team, I never overlook Green Bay...or Detroit for that matter. They ARE dangerous.

    That said, I just don't see them being THAT much better this season. Woodson had a magical year, but at 33 years old, how much longer can he maintain that level of play? Whoopie Goldberg is 35 and has been injury plagued the last 2 seasons. He can't go man-to-man with Elite receivers anymore. Atari Bigby has had injury issues and has never recaptured his 2007 form. The only one rock solid is Collins.

    My main point of contention is this media fascination with claiming that Capers is some kind of 3-4 guru. Truth is, he really isn't. Remember how they used to try and sell Ted Cotrell that way too? As a "Defensive Mastermind"? Yet every year, any Defense Ted took control of got WORSE...Capers has a similar history.

    So, again, Green Bay is dangerous...and they'll make some noise this season. But I don't see them being at our level with Favre under center. If Jackson is under center, Green Bay sweeps us, but Favre makes our offense - and our team - so much better that I think we beat up on Green Bay again this season.

    Caine
    I don't disagree with any of that.

    However, I think that the players are carrying Capers, rather than the other way around. GB has good 3-4 players, and it doesn't hurt that Harris and Woodson had one of their best seasons ever together.

    Their LB's played well, Matthews had a great rookie season, Hawk seems more comfortable in the 3-4, and Barnett was playing well. Kampman was a liability, but that should improve. Their DL was well suited too.

    I don't think he had the same quality players across the board in New York and was it Miami? I think GB's D will tighten as a unit, but won't be as much of a 'big play' defense that they were this season

  10. #30
    kalamazooer10 is offline Training Camp
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    Re:Why can't Favre repeat or improve over last year?

    How can he get better when he's busy milking chickens in Messyseppy?
    None

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