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  1. #61
    Rage4Order is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    To accept this premise is to accept neither Manziel NOR Turner can succeed if they have to deviate from what they have done in the past. I have seen games with Manziel where he stayed in the pocket and picked the defense apart the whole game... it wasn't one of his "showy" games, and as such, isn't played over and over again on Sportscenter. But has done it, and he is young enough to develop those skills if it is required.

    Turner has always liked to emphasize the run game, and allow that to open up the passing for his QB. As such, a QB who takes a lot of chances doesn't really "fit"; but a QB who sits in the pocket then gets sacked because he can't do anything else doesn't "fit" with ANYONE'S offensive scheme. It's a given that Manziel needs to lean on his OL, go through he progressions, and work on throwing properly ALL the time, not just in spurts. But saying he cannot is just as presumptuous as saying he will flourish in Turner's system.

    In the end, Turner and Zimmer themselves will decide if the kids will work; if they DO, then I respect their decision. If they don't, I'll pout a little bit and then root for whoever they decide on.
    Your missing the point. Before we hired Norv we already knew about Manziel. So here is my point. Why in gods green earth would you hire a OC who has a 20+ year track record of building an offense and mind you very successfully. Running a certain offense with certain traits he likes in QBs and then draft him a qb who doesn't fit what he does, and tell him to change for some rookie who in reality shouldn't even be in convo for a pick at 8. None of these QBs are worth it. As others have stated on here Zimmer is defensive minded do you think he wants to put the faith of his first draft in such a risky pick. I don't argue Manziel was an amazing college football player. I just don't see his skills translating to NFL offenses.

  2. #62
    Rage4Order is offline Rookie
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    Not to mention a lot of people on here are really down on Derek Carr because of his bowl game. Fresno State vs USC, his offensive line was horrible. He lit it up during senior bowl practices and game. Trust me this is in no way me saying he will be a good QB. Just making a point. I have not just watched sportscenter, for highlight reels. Ive watched hours of videos on a good number of these qbs. Ive seen Manziel in the pocket but almost always he even thinks someone might come free hes ready to take off. Straight up his strength is improvisation. Not pocket presence and reading the defense in front of him.

  3. #63
    313zoe is offline Starter
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    who will be tha nxt franchise QB

    None of these QB's are going to cum in and start and make an impact so why draft somebody that high that wont start thats why they need to focus on defense wit tha first two picks a LB and CB and Boyd wouldn't be bad for a late draft pick

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rage4Order View Post
    Not to mention a lot of people on here are really down on Derek Carr because of his bowl game. Fresno State vs USC, his offensive line was horrible. He lit it up during senior bowl practices and game. Trust me this is in no way me saying he will be a good QB. Just making a point. I have not just watched sportscenter, for highlight reels. Ive watched hours of videos on a good number of these qbs. Ive seen Manziel in the pocket but almost always he even thinks someone might come free hes ready to take off. Straight up his strength is improvisation. Not pocket presence and reading the defense in front of him.
    I did get your point, which was why I said there is limited proof that Manziel can do well in a pocket QB style offense. The Vanderbilt game is a good example, where he obviously was not afraid of the Vanderbilt defense getting to him; he stayed in the pocket and picked them apart. But overall, he obviously had trust issues with part of his OL in college... how will he react to having a very good one?

    I think Turner has the ability to work in JFM's innate abilities to escape pocket collapses IF Manziel is willing to do most of his throwing from the pocket. In other words, if Zimmer and Turner think they can turn Manziel into more of a Steve Young, he WILL work in Turner's offense. I lived in the Bay Area for 15 years and saw just about every 49er game (it was the only frikkin game on), and Young preferred (when he matured) staying in the pocket and only using his feet when he had to. If Manziel can learn to do that, or more importantly, Turner and Zimmer think they can TEACH him that, they will pick him.

    If not, they won't. Turner will not create a completely new offense for Johnny, with this I agree.
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  5. #65
    Rage4Order is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    I did get your point, which was why I said there is limited proof that Manziel can do well in a pocket QB style offense. The Vanderbilt game is a good example, where he obviously was not afraid of the Vanderbilt defense getting to him; he stayed in the pocket and picked them apart. But overall, he obviously had trust issues with part of his OL in college... how will he react to having a very good one?

    I think Turner has the ability to work in JFM's innate abilities to escape pocket collapses IF Manziel is willing to do most of his throwing from the pocket. In other words, if Zimmer and Turner think they can turn Manziel into more of a Steve Young, he WILL work in Turner's offense. I lived in the Bay Area for 15 years and saw just about every 49er game (it was the only frikkin game on), and Young preferred (when he matured) staying in the pocket and only using his feet when he had to. If Manziel can learn to do that, or more importantly, Turner and Zimmer think they can TEACH him that, they will pick him.

    If not, they won't. Turner will not create a completely new offense for Johnny, with this I agree.
    Your statements alone tell me we will not draft him. Manziel will only succeed in NFL if he goes to a team that will design a certain offense for him to play in, even that is questionable. Picking apart a Vanderbilt offense from the pocket is not saying much. NFL defenses will eat him up with all that running around and just throwing the ball up for grabs. I could care less what he is doing off the field as long as he is not a criminal. Going to bars, getting money for autographs, should never even be mentioned its menial means nothing. I myself like Manziel as a football player I liked Tebow alot as well. They are both extremely fun to watch play football. Im just a fan of the game of football and of course our Vikings.
    I just have a firm belief that none of these qbs are worth a pick at 8. I do believe that Carr, Mettenberger would be successful with Norv. But not at 8. Carr will be gone by end of first, I wouldn't be surprised if he even gets drafted before one or two of the supposed big 3. I just see too many defensive needs in this draft, LBs in particular to take a qb at 8. Don't wanna see pick 8 used on a qb we will have to wait and see for 3 more years to see if he pans out.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    I did get your point, which was why I said there is limited proof that Manziel can do well in a pocket QB style offense. The Vanderbilt game is a good example, where he obviously was not afraid of the Vanderbilt defense getting to him; he stayed in the pocket and picked them apart. But overall, he obviously had trust issues with part of his OL in college... how will he react to having a very good one?

    I think Turner has the ability to work in JFM's innate abilities to escape pocket collapses IF Manziel is willing to do most of his throwing from the pocket. In other words, if Zimmer and Turner think they can turn Manziel into more of a Steve Young, he WILL work in Turner's offense. I lived in the Bay Area for 15 years and saw just about every 49er game (it was the only frikkin game on), and Young preferred (when he matured) staying in the pocket and only using his feet when he had to. If Manziel can learn to do that, or more importantly, Turner and Zimmer think they can TEACH him that, they will pick him.

    If not, they won't. Turner will not create a completely new offense for Johnny, with this I agree.
    It doesn't get much better than A&M's offensive line. If Johnny has trust issues with them, it will be much worse in the NFL.

    Personally, I don't think it was so much trust, it was just that he had a lot of success in scrambling and improvising so he just kept doing it. Added bonus that he gets to make more highlight reels that way. A&M doesn't care about preparing Manziel for the NFL, so why force him into it if he is succeeding playing Johnny ball.

  7. #67
    Rage4Order is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    It doesn't get much better than A&M's offensive line. If Johnny has trust issues with them, it will be much worse in the NFL.

    Personally, I don't think it was so much trust, it was just that he had a lot of success in scrambling and improvising so he just kept doing it. Added bonus that he gets to make more highlight reels that way. A&M doesn't care about preparing Manziel for the NFL, so why force him into it if he is succeeding playing Johnny ball.
    +1

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    It doesn't get much better than A&M's offensive line. If Johnny has trust issues with them, it will be much worse in the NFL.

    Personally, I don't think it was so much trust, it was just that he had a lot of success in scrambling and improvising so he just kept doing it. Added bonus that he gets to make more highlight reels that way. A&M doesn't care about preparing Manziel for the NFL, so why force him into it if he is succeeding playing Johnny ball.
    An OL is only as good as its weakest link; if one of the guards or tackles is getting beat consistently, I really don't think it matter how good they are on paper. Last year the Vikings had one of the best OLs in the NFL on paper at the beginning of the season, as per the NFL Network... a lot of good that did us.

    Look, the one thing everyone agrees on is Manziel has a large hill to climb to be successful in the NFL. We tend to focus on his scrambling... why? Because its frikkin exciting, and makes great film bites for our consumption. But I really could give a crap about it, to tell the truth. Pryor in Oakland was also very good at scrambling, but it didn't do too much for the team in the end, did it?

    All these QBs are about possibilities; none of them will be superstars in 2014 (unless a Cleveland drafts one and shoves him in at the beginning of the season, and that player has all my sympathy). I like what he brings to the table, and the possibilities of a Manziel are a huge amount of fun to think on for our team. In the end, it really doesn't matter what we think, does it?

    He will either mature into a superstar, or blow up spectacularly, with all the hoopla the NFL can provide. One draft pick in any draft, barring a Sapp, Lawrence Taylor or Andrew Luck sitting there to be taken, will not be remembered. But PASSING on a guy like that WILL. If Clowney or Mack is there at 8, I expect this whole conversation to be a mote point.
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

    ~Napoleon Bonaparte on Politics

  9. #69
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    My guess is Derek Carr.

    I predicted in another thread that we would draft BPA other than a quarterback with pick number eight. Then trade back into the first round with Cinci at 24 and snag Carr before Cleveland in case they are thinking they can get him at 26.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackSux! View Post
    My guess is Derek Carr.

    I predicted in another thread that we would draft BPA other than a quarterback with pick number eight. Then trade back into the first round with Cinci at 24 and snag Carr before Cleveland in case they are thinking they can get him at 26.
    Even though I like your idea better. But the team probably will use the 8th pick to draft a QB. With the sliding QB stock, I can only hope they get the right one.
    QFFL.com 2014 NFL Draft Challenge

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