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  1. #21
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    How has Childress impressed, in any way, shape, or form, that leads us to believe he's the guy to take us all the way?

    I only ask since you're prying Marrdro.

    It's hard enough to stay optimistic, much less start chanting for Childress.

  2. #22
    NordicNed is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    How has Childress impressed, in any way, shape, or form, that leads us to believe he's the guy to take us all the way?

    I only ask since you're prying Marrdro.

    It's hard enough to stay optimistic, much less start chanting for Childress.
    I'll say this PPE, way to early to give a total report on him (how I feel anyways) but I can think of both some good and bad things I noticed in him.
    Don't know if I'de go as far as saying I was impressed, but I did like how he handled the Culpepper feasko....He didn't give in to PEP....And I like the fact that he has proven he can spot talent, even if it's not on the field as a starter, or picking out young talent with potential..




    IE:
    He picked up CT in the FA market last season, and I'de say that was mostly his doing, seeing he coached against CT's previous team a couple of games, liked what he did see and didn't forget that fact.
    Also, we had a very good draft last year, again thats my opinion, and I'm sure he had his eyes on films alot before the draft and had input on the decisions on who and who not to draft....One I'm sure he really pulled for was TJ, and I've said all along, I really like this young player.
    I believe he is going to be one hell of QB in the near future...




    But at the same time, he needs to work on a number of things also, his play calling really needs a look at, and I'm not so sure on how his Coach to Player relationships really are....I tend to get the feeling, that he plays hard ball with them, maybe just a little to hard...Then again, it was his first season also, and the team was a bunch of renagades.....Maybe he had to put the hammer down.....I'll have to see if he changes for the better some this season....


    I LOVE THE SMELL OF VICTORY IN THE MORNING AIR.

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    How has Childress impressed, in any way, shape, or form, that leads us to believe he's the guy to take us all the way?

    I only ask since you're prying Marrdro.

    It's hard enough to stay optimistic, much less start chanting for Childress.
    I'll say this PPE, way to early to give a total report on him (how I feel anyways) but I can think of both some good and bad things I noticed in him.
    Don't know if I'de go as far as saying I was impressed, but I did like how he handled the Culpepper feasko....He didn't give in to PEP....And I like the fact that he has proven he can spot talent, even if it's not on the field as a starter, or picking out young talent with potential..





    IE:
    He picked up CT in the FA market last season, and I'de say that was mostly his doing, seeing he coached against CT's previous team a couple of games, liked what he did see and didn't forget that fact.
    Also, we had a very good draft last year, again thats my opinion, and I'm sure he had his eyes on films alot before the draft and had input on the decisions on who and who not to draft....One I'm sure he really pulled for was TJ, and I've said all along, I really like this young player.
    I believe he is going to be one hell of QB in the near future...




    But at the same time, he needs to work on a number of things also, his play calling really needs a look at, and I'm not so sure on how his Coach to Player relationships really are....I tend to get the feeling, that he plays hard ball with them, maybe just a little to hard...Then again, it was his first season also, and the team was a bunch of renagades.....Maybe he had to put the hammer down.....I'll have to see if he changes for the better some this season....
    Although my point was kindof done jokingly at the begining, I will put it back in.
    Additionally, you could also go back to most of my posts related to player/personnel and you will see amplifying points on my thoughts of how I believe (even after one year) he is a good coach.

    The biggest thing I would also like to add is that I think the players respect him and much to the chagrin of some, want to play for him.
    Unless you can give me links otherwise that can prove it otherwise, I haven't heard anything to the contrary.

    Lets attempt to put this to bed once and for all.


    Please provide why you voted for your candidate.

    Even though he only has one year, I will be voting for B-chill for the following reasons:

    a.
    I don't think their record last year is a reflection of how good this team is.
    We lost alot of close games last year.

    b.
    His FA and Draft moves last year were pretty solid.
    Go back to the numerous times it has been amplified in other threads.
    Overall a pretty good youth movement going on within the players.

    c.
    He is building a team that will contend for years to come and not just thinking about today.

    d.
    He's bald, I'm balding.
    Us follicly challenged gentlemen must stay together.

    Tice

    a.
    I liked him as a player but believe he was just a cheap stop gap for Mcombs to use until he sold the team.

    b.
    He really didn't attempt to change anything with respect to players/personnel.
    He did have a owner who limited (IMHO) what he could do however.

    c.
    He was to open with the press.
    Everybody and thier brother knew what move he was going to make next.
    It might make the local press and fans like you but thats a bad thing when it comes to going after players in the NFL.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    Tice got some of the players to perform above expectations.
    But, some players didn't play up to expectations (e.g. Smoot) and it seemed to be due to a lack of concentration and discipline.
    Tice didn't set a good example with his ticket scalping problem and all the miscreants who weren't disciplined; Onterrio Smith, Moss, The Love Boat crew, Tabu club fight (i.e. not all players involved were disciplined similarly), etc.

    Childress is a coach in the Grant - Landry - Parcells mold.
    He will let his players know who is the coach and who is the player; e.g. Pat Williams was placed on the PUP list at the onset of training camp due to being a few pounds over the target set by Childress or the trainer.

    So, it is too soon to tell who is the better coach due to a short experience period for Childress.
    But Childress has much more potential to succeed due to his application of the principles found in the Code of Conduct, and, as a result, the type of disciplined players that will be on the roster after 2007.
    Instilling that type of discipline usually yields fewer penalties and 'lack of concentration' errors.
    How often did we see defensive PI, offsides, false starts, fumbles, clipping on kick returns, and poor QB judgment resulting in INTs, and offsides on kickoffs
    during 2006?
    Will Childress keep those players around?
    Partial answer: K. Robinson, Smoot, Rosenthal, Whittle, ...
    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  5. #25
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    mike tice..right now its not even close
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  6. #26
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    How has Childress impressed, in any way, shape, or form, that leads us to believe he's the guy to take us all the way?

    I only ask since you're prying Marrdro.

    It's hard enough to stay optimistic, much less start chanting for Childress.

    I'll say this PPE, way to early to give a total report on him (how I feel anyways) but I can think of both some good and bad things I noticed in him.
    Don't know if I'de go as far as saying I was impressed, but I did like how he handled the Culpepper feasko....He didn't give in to PEP....And I like the fact that he has proven he can spot talent, even if it's not on the field as a starter, or picking out young talent with potential..





    IE:
    He picked up CT in the FA market last season, and I'de say that was mostly his doing, seeing he coached against CT's previous team a couple of games, liked what he did see and didn't forget that fact.
    Also, we had a very good draft last year, again thats my opinion, and I'm sure he had his eyes on films alot before the draft and had input on the decisions on who and who not to draft....One I'm sure he really pulled for was TJ, and I've said all along, I really like this young player.
    I believe he is going to be one hell of QB in the near future...




    But at the same time, he needs to work on a number of things also, his play calling really needs a look at, and I'm not so sure on how his Coach to Player relationships really are....I tend to get the feeling, that he plays hard ball with them, maybe just a little to hard...Then again, it was his first season also, and the team was a bunch of renagades.....Maybe he had to put the hammer down.....I'll have to see if he changes for the better some this season....
    Actually, this is one of my concerns with Childress. He cuts a decent player with NO backup plan, oh yeah, he drafted a QB that even he said at one time, wouldn't be ready to start for a few years. And that's if Jackson even pans out.

    Same thing goes for Koren Robinson. Sure, Koren got what he deserved (first being cut, then landing in GB hell), but are we as fans? He is another example of Childress playing tough guy, with NO back-up plan.

    Ltrey mentioned something similar earlier and I agree with this statement.
    I never thought Tice was a great coach other than being someone the players "liked", but I thnk Childress is a control freak and may end up sinking the team with his "my way or the highway" attitude.
    As for Childress' recruiting, he brought in a couple "solid" players, nothing I'm about to high five everyone over. IMO, his coaching scheme, to this point, has phased out more competent players than he's brought in. However, the Draft is yet to come and ONLY time will tell how this all pans out.

    Here's a little refresher on how our Coach compared to other Rookie Head Coachs around the league.

    Link to the entire article. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16384613/

    [size=10pt]BRAD CHILDRESS, MINNESOTA VIKINGS:[/size]
    The Vikings were expected to be a playoff contender under Childress after the negativity of the Mike Tice reign had disappeared. Instead, the Vikings were an underachieving enigma in his first season.

    Childress is in charge, so blame the head coach. But the Vikings have no playmakers to speak of. At quarterback, Brad Johnson is ineffective and should be out after this season. But Johnson had little help, either.

    Now the rumblings that Childress has trouble communicating with his players has reached a roar as the team’s record has reached 6-9. Considered aloof, stubborn and obsessed with control, Childress recently cut Marcus Robinson, the team’s leader in touchdown catches and probably its best wide receiver, reportedly because Robinson criticized the coach, although Childress downplayed that. But before that, cornerback Antoine Winfield criticized the offense.
    Even in this article, the author states that Johnson is "ineffective" and "had little help". Why? Because Childress traded away the starting QB and cut the only playmaking WR.

    In the long run, I support both of these moves. I just don't understand why he seems to make decisions without any forethought.

    Well, it's HIS career I guess, GO VIKES!

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    How has Childress impressed, in any way, shape, or form, that leads us to believe he's the guy to take us all the way?

    I only ask since you're prying Marrdro.

    It's hard enough to stay optimistic, much less start chanting for Childress.

    I'll say this PPE, way to early to give a total report on him (how I feel anyways) but I can think of both some good and bad things I noticed in him.
    Don't know if I'de go as far as saying I was impressed, but I did like how he handled the Culpepper feasko....He didn't give in to PEP....And I like the fact that he has proven he can spot talent, even if it's not on the field as a starter, or picking out young talent with potential..





    IE:
    He picked up CT in the FA market last season, and I'de say that was mostly his doing, seeing he coached against CT's previous team a couple of games, liked what he did see and didn't forget that fact.
    Also, we had a very good draft last year, again thats my opinion, and I'm sure he had his eyes on films alot before the draft and had input on the decisions on who and who not to draft....One I'm sure he really pulled for was TJ, and I've said all along, I really like this young player.
    I believe he is going to be one hell of QB in the near future...




    But at the same time, he needs to work on a number of things also, his play calling really needs a look at, and I'm not so sure on how his Coach to Player relationships really are....I tend to get the feeling, that he plays hard ball with them, maybe just a little to hard...Then again, it was his first season also, and the team was a bunch of renagades.....Maybe he had to put the hammer down.....I'll have to see if he changes for the better some this season....
    Actually, this is one of my concerns with Childress. He cuts a decent player with NO backup plan, oh yeah, he drafted a QB that even he said at one time, wouldn't be ready to start for a few years. And that's if Jackson even pans out.

    Same thing goes for Koren Robinson. Sure, Koren got what he deserved (first being cut, then landing in GB hell), but are we as fans? He is another example of Childress playing tough guy, with NO back-up plan.

    Ltrey mentioned something similar earlier and I agree with this statement.
    I never thought Tice was a great coach other than being someone the players "liked", but I thnk Childress is a control freak and may end up sinking the team with his "my way or the highway" attitude.
    As for Childress' recruiting, he brought in a couple "solid" players, nothing I'm about to high five everyone over. IMO, his coaching scheme, to this point, has phased out more competent players than he's brought in. However, the Draft is yet to come and ONLY time will tell how this all pans out.

    Here's a little refresher on how our Coach compared to other Rookie Head Coachs around the league.

    Link to the entire article. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16384613/

    [size=10pt]BRAD CHILDRESS, MINNESOTA VIKINGS:[/size]
    The Vikings were expected to be a playoff contender under Childress after the negativity of the Mike Tice reign had disappeared. Instead, the Vikings were an underachieving enigma in his first season.

    Childress is in charge, so blame the head coach. But the Vikings have no playmakers to speak of. At quarterback, Brad Johnson is ineffective and should be out after this season. But Johnson had little help, either.

    Now the rumblings that Childress has trouble communicating with his players has reached a roar as the team’s record has reached 6-9. Considered aloof, stubborn and obsessed with control, Childress recently cut Marcus Robinson, the team’s leader in touchdown catches and probably its best wide receiver, reportedly because Robinson criticized the coach, although Childress downplayed that. But before that, cornerback Antoine Winfield criticized the offense.
    Even in this article, the author states that Johnson is "ineffective" and "had little help". Why? Because Childress traded away the starting QB and cut the only playmaking WR.

    In the long run, I support both of these moves. I just don't understand why he seems to make decisions without any forethought.

    Well, it's HIS career I guess, GO VIKES!
    You must remember that I am ever the optimist.
    Negativity only breeds negativity.

    All great points PPE that are tough to argue especially with the leadership style that B-chill uses/betrays. (Authoritarian).
    He isn't a warm bubbly kind of guy a fan loves.
    IMHO that is the right style of leader the team needed last year and for the years to come.
    I don't want to like him, I want him to make winners out of our team.

    I played High School ball for a guy that wanted to be everyones friend.
    Sure practices were fun, we joked and kidded, did group things, but never learned anything and sucked.
    Of course he was replaced by a guy that yelled, screamed, made us run laps, do pushups etc when we screwed up.
    Guess what, although we initially disliked the guy, we grew to respect him to the point that eventually we wanted to win and not just to keep from doing pushups but rather for pride.

    Long story short, I think he has a plan, as well as a backup. Tough breaks and a team of players that don't quite fit the mold to play his scheme were what he inherited.
    Add to that the fact of we were in the middle/shortly after an owner change are all contributing factors to were we are.

    One point on the whole QB thing.
    I don't think TJ was the primary piece in that grand scheme but rather the second or third QB that the staff had targeted.
    Remember, they tride to get Cutler last year but the cost would have been to great.


    Keep that thought in mind if we don't make to hard an effort to go up fot CJ this year but rather draft other WR with later picks that can still play within the scheme.

    I see that whole issue as a key indicator that they do have a plan, and a backup plan as well. Unfortunately that plan sure sucked last year.
    Probably because they had to many holes to plug and not enough plugs for it.

    We will add a couple more of those plugs this year.
    They will be young, raw players that will eventually increase that core nucleas of players.


    Patience is hard, but if we can hold the line for the next year or two, I think we will all see that scheme/plan come to fruition and will be smacking the lickes of the PUCKERS down for years to come.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    I agree with Marrdro in his post above.
    I decided not to copy the huge box of text, but I will touch upon a few points.

    Disciplinary coaches who inherit a team will have several players resist the new system.
    This is especially true when the prior coach was lenient and lax in disciplining the players.
    Only those players who respond positively to Childress' behavioral expectations will remain on the roster, despite their talent.
    That is apparent in the trade of Culpepper, cutting of K.Robinson and M. Robinson, placement of Pat Williams on the PUP for being overweight at the start of training camp, etc.

    The players who remain on the roster after a disciplinarian takes over will most likely be committing fewer penalties of ommission, i.e. false start, holding, DROPPED PASSES, and fumbling.
    'Unforced errors' was the biggest gripe of fans during the 2006 season.
    But that doesn't mean Childress failed, because he is in the middle of rebuilding the roster to be better balanced and deep with experienced backups.


    To those who complain because Randy and Daunte are gone because of behavioral issues, I must ask, what have they done since leaving?

    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Who is the Better Coach?

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    I agree with Marrdro in his post above.
    I decided not to copy the huge box of text, but I will touch upon a few points.

    Disciplinary coaches who inherit a team will have several players resist the new system.
    This is especially true when the prior coach was lenient and lax in disciplining the players.

    Only those players who respond positively to Childress' behavioral expectations will remain on the roster, despite their talent.
    That is apparent in the trade of Culpepper, cutting of K.Robinson and M. Robinson, placement of Pat Williams on the PUP for being overweight at the start of training camp, etc.

    The players who remain on the roster after a disciplinarian takes over will most likely be committing fewer penalties of ommission, i.e. false start, holding, DROPPED PASSES, and fumbling.

    'Unforced errors' was the biggest gripe of fans during the 2006 season.
    But that doesn't mean Childress failed, because he is in the middle of rebuilding the roster to be better balanced and deep with experienced backups.


    To those who complain because Randy and Daunte are gone because of behavioral issues, I must ask, what have they done since leaving?

    I like your stuff man, and not just cause you agreed with me here.
    Keep up the quality.
    Adds credibility to the site IMHO.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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