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  1. #1
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    Okay, so teams went to an extreme last year and "loaded the box" against us more than anyone could have predicted. While they were not successful in the long run, it did have a tendency to make drives stall out every now and then.

    I have to think this is a major focus of the coaching staff this off-season and it may have some influence on draft strategy if it requires new/better personnel.

    The question is...what will or should the Vikings do to counter this strategy next year?
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  2. #2
    gregair13's Avatar
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    Play action pass bomb from Favre to Rice.
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  3. #3
    ForceOfNorse's Avatar
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    A quick slant/post can kill a Defense especially with a guy like Percy Harvin!!

  4. #4
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    Put 3 receivers on the field, or put Shiancoe in the slot.

    Don't run out of heavy sets. Peterson doesn't need a ton of blocking at the line of scrimmage, just don't run him up the gut, and let guys do work down field to extend runs.


    Code:
           |             |             |
                 |             FS            |
                 |             |             |
                 |             |             |
                 |    OLB  MLB |  SS  OLB    |
      CB         |   DE    DT  |  DT     DE  | CB
      SR         | VS  BM  SH  JS  AH  PH JK |
                 |7   5   3   1BF2   4   6  8| 
                 |             |             |
                 |             NT            |
                 |             |             |
                 |             AP            |
    In a heavy formation such as this one, no matter where we run inside the tackles we're facing a heavy front.
    If we attack the 3 or 4 hole(between Hutch and Mac, or Hererra and Loadholt): We face two defensive linemen and two linebackers with two offensive linemen a FB and a TE.

    If we attack between center and guard, forget it. Two DTs, both safeties, at least one linebacker, are all in position to fill and make a play. Off tackle is a little better, but that relies heavily on WR and TE seal blocking, and you really can't count on a lead blocker getting in front of Peterson trying to turn the corner.

    And the uncovered corner can cheat in, bringing one more defender closer to the play.

    Code:
           |             |             |
                 |       FS    |     SS      |
                 |             |             |
                 |             |             |
                 |     OLB    MLB    OLB     |
      CB         |   DE    DT  |  DT    DE   |       CB
      SR       VS     BM  SH  JS  AH  PH     |       BB
                 |   5   3   1BF2   4   6    | 
                 |             |             |
                 |            NT             |
                 |             |             |
                 |            AP             |
    Here we have the outside run set up pretty easily, Mckinnie's just gotta make the block on the DE, Slot receiver gets downfield, or cracks in to the OLB, and Tahi is free to block anyone else in the way. We're dealing with fewer defenders per blocker at any given hole and setting up for downfield blocks.

    This also puts all of our talent on the field. Shiancoe or Harvin in the slot, Rice, Peterson, Berrian are all out there.


    By running out of heavy sets we put ourselves in bad positions. I think lighter formations will lead to bigger gains in the running game more frequently.

    Play action out of this could be incredible. We could have the slot receiver fake the down block and slip downfield... there's loads we could do out of this lighter formation.


    We have so much talent that having a stacked tackle box should be a non-issue. That should be alleviated quickly. And in most circumstances it would be... but Peterson is that good.

  5. #5
    Mark_The_Viking is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    Well that's about as comprehensive an answer as you will get. I won't insult you by adding anything.

    Except regardless where AP runs defenders will focus on knocking the ball out, if he has cured the fumble tendency this will really work in our favour
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  6. #6
    gregair13's Avatar
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against

    Mark_The_Viking wrote:
    Well that's about as comprehensive an answer as you will get. I won't insult you by adding anything.

    Except regardless where AP runs defenders will focus on knocking the ball out, if he has cured the fumble tendency this will really work in our favour
    Maybe AP can go talk to Tiki Barber about fumbles. Lets just hope that he doesn't pick up Tiki's douchebag attitude as well.
    We're bringing purple back.

  7. #7
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against

    Mr Anderson wrote:
    Put 3 receivers on the field, or put Shiancoe in the slot.

    Don't run out of heavy sets. Peterson doesn't need a ton of blocking at the line of scrimmage, just don't run him up the gut, and let guys do work down field to extend runs.


    Code:
           |             |             |
                 |             FS            |
                 |             |             |
                 |             |             |
                 |    OLB  MLB |  SS  OLB    |
      CB         |   DE    DT  |  DT     DE  | CB
      SR         | VS  BM  SH  JS  AH  PH JK |
                 |7   5   3   1BF2   4   6  8| 
                 |             |             |
                 |             NT            |
                 |             |             |
                 |             AP            |
    In a heavy formation such as this one, no matter where we run inside the tackles we're facing a heavy front.
    If we attack the 3 or 4 hole(between Hutch and Mac, or Hererra and Loadholt): We face two defensive linemen and two linebackers with two offensive linemen a FB and a TE.

    If we attack between center and guard, forget it. Two DTs, both safeties, at least one linebacker, are all in position to fill and make a play. Off tackle is a little better, but that relies heavily on WR and TE seal blocking, and you really can't count on a lead blocker getting in front of Peterson trying to turn the corner.

    And the uncovered corner can cheat in, bringing one more defender closer to the play.

    Code:
           |             |             |
                 |       FS    |     SS      |
                 |             |             |
                 |             |             |
                 |     OLB    MLB    OLB     |
      CB         |   DE    DT  |  DT    DE   |       CB
      SR       VS     BM  SH  JS  AH  PH     |       BB
                 |   5   3   1BF2   4   6    | 
                 |             |             |
                 |            NT             |
                 |             |             |
                 |            AP             |
    Here we have the outside run set up pretty easily, Mckinnie's just gotta make the block on the DE, Slot receiver gets downfield, or cracks in to the OLB, and Tahi is free to block anyone else in the way. We're dealing with fewer defenders per blocker at any given hole and setting up for downfield blocks.

    This also puts all of our talent on the field. Shiancoe or Harvin in the slot, Rice, Peterson, Berrian are all out there.


    By running out of heavy sets we put ourselves in bad positions. I think lighter formations will lead to bigger gains in the running game more frequently.

    Play action out of this could be incredible. We could have the slot receiver fake the down block and slip downfield... there's loads we could do out of this lighter formation.


    We have so much talent that having a stacked tackle box should be a non-issue. That should be alleviated quickly. And in most circumstances it would be... but Peterson is that good.

    I like the concept of maximizing our talent on the field. I think the best way is to go to a two back set and putting a RB(s) in motion more often is the best option.

    I was surprised we did not see more of this last year as it is the fundamental play/line-up of Bill Walsh's original WCO and the usual reason teams are afraid to put "8 in the box" against a WCO team.

    Here is hoping Favre makes it to camp in time to install/develop more of the fundamental WCO principles that make the "8 in the box" a less successful strategy for defenses to use.

    If not Harvin as the man in motion, I see them leveraging the draft for one of these RBs:

    J Best..................+Stretch the field horizontally, - more of a Harvin clone
    M Hardesty.........+ powerful ZBS cut back Runner, +blocking back, +route running, +pass catching
    J McKnight .........+ Stretch the field horizontally, - not a blocker
    T Gerhardt .........+ Blocking back, +threat to run up middle, + surprising hands

    I actually like the Idea of Hardesty and Gerhardt better than Harvin or any of the others.

    A package that appears run heavy will be more effective when it sends the player in motion, and Hardesty or Gerhardt could be the blocking back for Peterson on run plays as well.

    The next best strategy in my book would be to go to more 3 receiver sets, I don't see them doing this until we have a better 4th receiver to put on the field. (I seem to remember a commentator quoting Favre as saying "we will use G Lewis" more next year at some point late last year- could have been a dream). But this makes sense as well because Lewis is an accomplished route runner. I am not sure if they will "go after" a 4th WR in the draft, but, if they got one they could put him to good use by allowing them to increase the frequency of 3 receiver sets.
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  8. #8
    CCthebest's Avatar
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against

    This is the thing. The coaching staff has been struggling with 8+ in the bix since we got AD. They have no answer for it. Farve, being the proffesional he is, and knowing more about football then the entire coaching staff, made them pay a few times. I think the quick slants slants/screens to PH and AD will fix this a litte.

  9. #9
    oaklandzoo24's Avatar
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    Re: What will the Vikings do against

    Brad Childress: "Lets run the ball with Adrian Peterson. If they run 8 in the box, then they think I think we should pass the ball when clearly I should run it if that is what they are thinking. But they could also be thinking that by me considering that they are thinking that I should pass on them, they may know that I would then want to run to counter their strategy, so therefore should I pass? No I have an idea, lets put 12 men on the field, then call an audible and then let Favre make the decision. Masterpiece!"
    "There are 3 things that sell in America:
    Violence, sex, and drugs.
    The only way you are going to make this game more appealing to the public than it was before is if there are on field orgies at halftime and the domes become massive opium dens."

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  10. #10
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re:What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    What will the Vikings do against "8 in the box"?

    They'll rarely see it as long as AD is still running the ball. It will be stacked, bank on it.

    As far as to the ones who commented about Favre & his quick release into the slot eliminating it, where were you last year? One would think you should have clearly seen last year how it didn't pull the extra man out. This year won't be any different, maybe worse since the numb-nuts upstairs let C-Tay walk.

    By the way, that quick release of Favre's resulted in 34 sacks last year.

    Who wants to argue against me again for the 4th year in a row when I say that our O-line needs help in a big way.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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