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  1. #21
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    To be fair I don't believe that number is cast in stone and to also be fair these projects never come in on budget so I will stick with my numbers thank you.



    So, go ahead and extract that amount, reformulate it and get back to me with the numbers that show it will cash flow. I have been waiting for that for years.





    Not really. I never said that the whole number was coming from the state. I merely stated that at that amount, no matter who pays it, the revenue created does not look like it is going to cover the costs. As I said before, feel free to throw some figures together for me that show what the costs will be, what the ticket prices will be and what the expenses will be based on your data. I am not unreasonable. Although I am not gullible wither....




    Yeah, but I never claimed them as fact and even went so far a to point that out. If by chance you have a copy of the projections from Bagley and company by all means either pass them on or put the data together for me that shows how this is going to work.

    Just the point that we are 14 years into the process and the Vikings have yet to put any of these projections together just clarifies how incompetent bagley has been in the process. It is far easier to convince the state to go along with you if you show them the potential of the revenue. Show me the money Jerry- Show me the money lol.





    And yet you call me out for speculating? At least I had the initiative to look at similar stadiums, what they cost, how many they seat and what they charge to get my data. While it is not my preferred method if you can get me some better numbers to work with I am all for it.




    Which ones? The ones that show the dome cost more to operate that it generated in revenue or the ones for the new stadium that haven't been produced?



    Well, if you want year by year numbers all you have to do is go to the states legislative website, look up the MSFC and they have the numbers for the dome for every year in PDF form. I have posted them many times in the past but since they all indicate the dome was negative in it's revenue after operating costs were considered it generally didn't get much of a response around here. But hey, the numbers are there for you to hash over.
    The MSFC numbers are great.... except they don't reflect new lease numbers for the Vikings, include maintenance expenses that will not be as extreme with a new stadium (like a new roof?), and use outdated, inefficient operating systems like positive air pressure to keep the dome inflated. Nobody is saying that the metrodome is solvent (or at least I don't think they are). That is another argument for a NEW stadium - because the dome is a money hole for both the state and the Vikings.

    Also, where are the income tax numbers from 2010? How about the direct sales tax impact from 2010? You can't just discount these numbers - they are a non-fungible source of income that is a direct result of the Minnesota Vikings. Without a stadium this income is lost. The direct operating income versus expenses aren't the only numbers that should be looked at.

    Despite what you say, the numbers for the new stadium have been generated and are available to the committees. They are also coming under scrutiny from some stadium opponents. Unfortunately, these same stadium opponents are the ones who prevented the legislature from addressing the stadium situation until the 13th hour, so there isn't as much time for scrutinization or study.

    I don't discount your questions or concerns - I believe they are important questions to ask. I just wish the inept legislature in Minnesota had asked those questions three or four years ago. Now it is too late - they will have to make a decision one way or the other in the void of solid information because they kept putting it off. One decision is guaranteed to have negative consequences with the Vikings leaving. The other has the potential to have positive or negative consequences depending on how the revenue comes in. So which do you choose.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #22
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    METROPOLITAN SPORTS FACILITIES COMMISSION
    STATEMENT OF REVENUES, EXPENSES AND CHANGES IN NET ASSETS
    For the Fiscal Year Ended December 31, 2010
    Exhibit B
    12
    ili 2 917 287
    Operating revenues:
    Concessions $ 8,211,352
    Admission tax 4,810,211
    Rent 5,289,046
    Charges for services 940,332
    Advertising 295,458
    Parking 80,588
    Other 268,914
    Total operating revenues 19,895,901
    Operating expenses:
    Concession costs 4,509,914
    Tenants share of concession receipts 1,238,429
    Facilities cost credit 4,293,708
    Personal services 2,465,130
    Professional services 375,033
    Contractual services 2,260,888
    Audio-visual services 215,036
    Travel and meetings 20,178
    Supplies, repairs and maintenance 797,164
    Utilities 2,917,287
    Insurance 495,053
    Communications 70,378
    Facilities planning, research and public information 354,426
    Event costs 578,031
    Marketing and advertising 154,701
    Miscellaneous 76,855
    Depreciation 2,633,710
    Roof restoration costs 569,337
    Total operating expenses 24,025,258
    Total operating loss (4,129,357)
    First off the $2.6 million depreciation amount is a tad bogus as that is not an out of pocket expense, but feel free to provide proof of it physically being paid. Lets also not forget the cost of the dome was paid up several years ago

    Secondly, unless the roof collapses every single year, that cost (which was probably picked up by insurance anyway) is a fluke and not a recurring payment.

    Now if only you had included all other sources of revenue directly related to the Vikings being here not directly associated with the dome, such as income taxes paid by players, coaches & anyone employed by the Vikings, their personal property taxes & taxes on anything purchased by them.

    Lets not forget additional taxes collected by hotels, restaurants, stores, liquor stores, privately owned parking lots & privately owned businesses from Vikings fans & the Vikings opponents fans, visiting the area & attending games.

    $4.1 mil - $2.6 mil = $1.5 mil.

    If you also deduct the non-recurring roof restoration cost you're down to $1 mil.

    I'm pretty sure if you add up ALL the income from ALL the sources outside of what just the Metrodome collects, you're looking at an amount that far exceeds the $1.0 to $1.5 mil.

    How much of that is paid in income tax by players, coaches & employees alone?

    I can understand your concern that income from a stadium by itself may not be self sustaining, but when you consider all the other income from sources outside of the venue, starting with millionaire players, coaches, fans & businesses directly related to the team being here, it's easy to see an NFL franchise is a benefit to the state as well as a great source of income.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-27-2012 at 07:12 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #23
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
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    The last thing you want to do in a recession is drive a multi-million dollar a year business out of town! These guys are the ones most likely to spend money. They pay back to the state not only income taxes, but sales and property taxes too. Which leads to my next point:

    What do you think will happen to the value of your homes if every player, coach, counselor, trainer etc etc etc suddenly moves out of town and puts their house up for sale!?!?!????

    So a 30-year old, worn-out, broken down, Dome with out-dated boilers, heating, lights etc etc etc doesn't make money on its own? Wow. Big Surprise! Isn't that why this whole friggen discussion got started!? That is why we are talking about building a NEW Dome.

    And, its not just about the Dome's numbers anyway. Its about all the other money that flows around and in and out of it and all the jobs for Minnesotans and all the taxes that they'll pay.

    And then you've got to hire some people to keep it busy during the offseason. Tournaments, concerts, festivals etc etc can keep more money flowing into the state.

    There's got to be a way to make it happen! Gambling, extra fan fees, whatever! Find a way, or I guarantee that the Cities will regret letting that money maelstrom walk out of town!!!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

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