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  1. #1
    singersp's Avatar
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    Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    [size=13pt]Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says[/size]

    A long-standing clash of property rights and a need to preserve resources are blamed for scuttling a lucrative deal with the Vikings.

    By Paul Levy, Star Tribune

    Last update: July 15, 2007 – 10:06 PM






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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    Nice read Singer.


    I still wonder if this whole wetlands issue could have been worked out..... unless of course
    there was a significant push from another entity (i.e. Metropolitan Sports Facilties Commission) that might not have benifited from the loss of a stadium downtown.

    I am of a mind that all "Red Tape" and "Bureaucracy" can be overcome unless someone else adds some additional "Red Tape" and "Bureaucracy" to the mix if they feel they might be losing a piece of thier little rice bowl.
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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    Wouldn't you think Wilf would have known there was going to be a wetlands issue before pursuing this option or that the DNR would have brought it up as an issue long before the plans advanced as far as they did?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    A jurisdictional wetland (legal definition) has three components:

    1. Hydrophytic plants
    2. Hydric soils
    3. Signs of wetland hydrology

    It's not that tough, any developer should know that they better be looking whether or not it's a jurisdictional wetland.

    I can't wait for the new stadium to finally get underway.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    "singersp" wrote:
    Wouldn't you think Wilf would have known there was going to be a wetlands issue before pursuing this option or that the DNR would have brought it up as an issue long before the plans advanced as far as they did?
    Your right.
    This type of stuff is the Zigmiesters bread and butter.
    I am sure he (along with the other partners) did alot of research into the whole wetlands issue and determined that they could overcome the wetland issue.

    What changed?
    Why didn't the Corps speak out sooner?
    Wasn't this touted as the new location for over a year or so?

    IMHO someone, somewhere, somehow decided, as this plan got some traction (albeit a bit muddy) that they had better come up with something to muddy up the waters and keep the stadium, along with all its revenues downtown.

    Again, speculation on my part but it had to be a organization with enough clout to get all the entities involved to say no to the development of these wetlands.
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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Wouldn't you think Wilf would have known there was going to be a wetlands issue before pursuing this option or that the DNR would have brought it up as an issue long before the plans advanced as far as they did?
    Your right.
    This type of stuff is the Zigmiesters bread and butter.
    I am sure he (along with the other partners) did alot of research into the whole wetlands issue and determined that they could overcome the wetland issue.

    What changed?
    Why didn't the Corps speak out sooner?
    Wasn't this touted as the new location for over a year or so?

    IMHO someone, somewhere, somehow decided, as this plan got some traction (albeit a bit muddy) that they had better come up with something to muddy up the waters and keep the stadium, along with all its revenues downtown.

    Again, speculation on my part but it had to be a organization with enough clout to get all the entities involved to say no to the development of these wetlands.
    Here's why:
    Lester Bagley, the Vikings' vice president of public affairs and stadium development, said Wilf met with the Rice Creek Watershed District and was told the land was usable.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Wouldn't you think Wilf would have known there was going to be a wetlands issue before pursuing this option or that the DNR would have brought it up as an issue long before the plans advanced as far as they did?
    Your right.
    This type of stuff is the Zigmiesters bread and butter.
    I am sure he (along with the other partners) did alot of research into the whole wetlands issue and determined that they could overcome the wetland issue.

    What changed?
    Why didn't the Corps speak out sooner?
    Wasn't this touted as the new location for over a year or so?

    IMHO someone, somewhere, somehow decided, as this plan got some traction (albeit a bit muddy) that they had better come up with something to muddy up the waters and keep the stadium, along with all its revenues downtown.

    Again, speculation on my part but it had to be a organization with enough clout to get all the entities involved to say no to the development of these wetlands.
    Here's why:
    Lester Bagley, the Vikings' vice president of public affairs and stadium development, said Wilf met with the Rice Creek Watershed District and was told the land was usable.
    I'm with ya COJO but my point is that the Wilf's have made thier fortune doing this kindof stuff.


    I am sure they (Probably some of thier lawyers) met with/or had discussions with agencies like the Rice Creek Watershed District as well as the Army Corps of Engineers, at least on a pelimanary basis, before they announced thier plans.


    What changed?


    Didn't this issue only raise its ugly head and get bigger only after it appeared that the stadium deal might become a reality?
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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Wouldn't you think Wilf would have known there was going to be a wetlands issue before pursuing this option or that the DNR would have brought it up as an issue long before the plans advanced as far as they did?
    Your right.
    This type of stuff is the Zigmiesters bread and butter.
    I am sure he (along with the other partners) did alot of research into the whole wetlands issue and determined that they could overcome the wetland issue.

    What changed?
    Why didn't the Corps speak out sooner?
    Wasn't this touted as the new location for over a year or so?

    IMHO someone, somewhere, somehow decided, as this plan got some traction (albeit a bit muddy) that they had better come up with something to muddy up the waters and keep the stadium, along with all its revenues downtown.

    Again, speculation on my part but it had to be a organization with enough clout to get all the entities involved to say no to the development of these wetlands.
    Here's why:
    Lester Bagley, the Vikings' vice president of public affairs and stadium development, said Wilf met with the Rice Creek Watershed District and was told the land was usable.
    Yes, but at which time did Wilf meet with the Watershed District? What is the date of that article?

    Did he know before the plans were developed & went through the house or did he finally meet with them near the end of the deal?

    That is what is key here.

    I was led to believe ihedid not meet with them until after it was declared wetlands & that's what killed it.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    Singer:
    That quotes comes from the article you posted. I don't assume that just because Wilf is a real estate developer that he personally inspects or does the leg work for his developments. He has his underlings do that. If you read that article carefully, it says first that the guy tried to sell his land a number of times. It sounds like he's a shyster to me. But futher down in the article is the quote I used which says that the land was OK to develop. Either Wilf believed the Corps had changed their mind (otherwise why would he even meet with the watershed district) or there was no communication between the watershed district and the corps. This quote was also in the article: "Bryan Schafer, Blaine's community development director, said he thought Preiner's suit against the city and Watershed District was settled as of July 1, and they had reached a compromise height for the culverts. But Preiner said no government or court officials contacted him by July 1 about a settlement."
    It sounds to me like county and federal government officials just were not communicating with each other and Wilf's bagmen were dealing with the country, not the corps.
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    Re: Wetland rules mired stadium plans, Anoka County landowner says

    First of all, wasn't the Anoka plan put into place by Red McCombs?
    Not Wilf.
    Zygi just inherited it and made a strong push with it.
    When it became obvious that it was no longer an option, he scrapped it for the type of development he prefers.

    Second, I tend to agree with Marrdro on this one.
    Once the plan actually began to look like it would happen, all of a sudden the politicians in Hennepin and Minny decided they didn't want to lose the stadium (and the $$$ that goes with it).
    When the design was first announced, there was an article about Wilf meeting with the Watershed District as part of a plan to make a percentage of the land into a wildlife preserve.
    You would have thought that if the land was unusable they would have brought it up then...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

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