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  1. #21
    hx38596's Avatar
    hx38596 is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "VikingMike" wrote:
    "Frostbite" wrote:
    "Merf_Vikes_Superbowl" wrote:
    Dont worry about tomorrow its a given win, But lets not worry about week 17 either. The Broncos have the worst Rush defence in the whole
    NFL. Chester Taylor and Adrian Peterson Combined in this Game will Give the vikings atleast a 3 touchdown Win. What do You Guys think?

    I think Denver attacks the line with the 8 man stacked box (AGAIN) defensively, and after watching AD and C.Tay gain nothing on first and second down while leaving the 3rd and long desperation mode pass from T.Jack for the INT (AGAIN) maybe by half time our O-coordiantor and Chilly might decide to try something new....like swing passes, screens, putting AD in the slot as a receiver, making a LB or Safety try to cover him...Wait a minute...This would be imaginative and un-predictable...Forget I said it..Our hard head run left..run right..run middle against the 8 man front is all we can hope for. (AGAIN)

    Denver wins at mile high 24-7. Yes...I am pesimistic about our offense because wa have had how many games now to figure out ways to beat it, that help T.Jack gain confidence early with short controlled passing and play action and even when it works we never come back to it and force defenses to cover it. Watch the RBs rack up big yards again when the defense has to respect the other options from pass plays called in un-predicatable situations. We don't need bombs downfield either to accomplish this. Just some short easy throws over the LBs, in the flats, or into spaces created by the 8 man fronts. Remember...you read what to watch for here first!

    I hope the Coaches show me something different so I can take the crow out of the cage and fork it!

    Cheers!

    I love this one. Why the hell not?
    AD - slot back?
    A 220 lb, 6' 1' 4.3/40 slot back??
    Ouch.
    That would open up reverses, easy screens, just a normal 'ol pass route, etc...


    I say use AD similar to how NO uses the slightly less talented, and durable R. Bush.
    I wish the staff was as creative as N.O. is in that regard.

  2. #22
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "hx38596" wrote:
    "VikingMike" wrote:
    "Frostbite" wrote:
    "Merf_Vikes_Superbowl" wrote:
    Dont worry about tomorrow its a given win, But lets not worry about week 17 either. The Broncos have the worst Rush defence in the whole
    NFL. Chester Taylor and Adrian Peterson Combined in this Game will Give the vikings atleast a 3 touchdown Win. What do You Guys think?

    I think Denver attacks the line with the 8 man stacked box (AGAIN) defensively, and after watching AD and C.Tay gain nothing on first and second down while leaving the 3rd and long desperation mode pass from T.Jack for the INT (AGAIN) maybe by half time our O-coordiantor and Chilly might decide to try something new....like swing passes, screens, putting AD in the slot as a receiver, making a LB or Safety try to cover him...Wait a minute...This would be imaginative and un-predictable...Forget I said it..Our hard head run left..run right..run middle against the 8 man front is all we can hope for. (AGAIN)

    Denver wins at mile high 24-7. Yes...I am pesimistic about our offense because wa have had how many games now to figure out ways to beat it, that help T.Jack gain confidence early with short controlled passing and play action and even when it works we never come back to it and force defenses to cover it. Watch the RBs rack up big yards again when the defense has to respect the other options from pass plays called in un-predicatable situations. We don't need bombs downfield either to accomplish this. Just some short easy throws over the LBs, in the flats, or into spaces created by the 8 man fronts. Remember...you read what to watch for here first!

    I hope the Coaches show me something different so I can take the crow out of the cage and fork it!

    Cheers!

    I love this one. Why the hell not?
    AD - slot back?
    A 220 lb, 6' 1' 4.3/40 slot back??
    Ouch.
    That would open up reverses, easy screens, just a normal 'ol pass route, etc...


    I say use AD similar to how NO uses the slightly less talented, and durable R. Bush.
    I wish the staff was as creative as N.O. is in that regard.


    So do I.....Let's see what game plan is used against the Broncos.

    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  3. #23
    digital420's Avatar
    digital420 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    what i'd really like to see is a bit more of the PA done with AP on the field.

    it seems we do more PA's with CT then with AD.. and other teams are keying in on this.

    I hope it's Bchill getting teams suckerd in on it.
    cause if it's not and they are telegraphing soooo much it's getting kinda scary.

    I'm not sure the total #.. but it's gotta be lopsided.

    I agree with most of u saying that we need to do more open field kinda plays with AD..
    when you have 8-9 guys keying in on that 1 player.. it's hard to get open field!! but this is something that can be used to find other open players.

    It'll be intersting to see what happens this weekend. Will we rise to the occasion.. or head into the off season at .500.. at about the level we all hoped we would be at the begining of the year.

    moving into the top half of the NFL, and poised to make playoff runs for the next -=- years!!

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    The Bronco's aren't as big of a pushover as some would believe.


    Defensively they are ranked 18th in overall defense and 30th against the run and 7th against the pass.

    Offensively they are ranked 13th in the pass and 9th in the running game.

    Phat Pat and K-will will need to bring thier A game against thier ZB scheme and our DE (as always) will need to get pressure on thier young signal caller (who I still think would look better as a Vikings) so that our LB's can cover the soft zones, TE's and throw a blitz in as necessary.

    As to AD/CT and our running attack.
    I believe that they can stack 8 in the box if they want to but it won't have any effect.
    Judging by some of the stats/specifics of thier DL they are a bit lighter than a average lineman but that does make them faster.


    With that said, they will be a pretty fast team on the field designed to pursue/close things on the edges.
    For all you guys out there who think going outside (Screens) is the best option you'd better rethink that.
    Our best option is to stay with traditional running plays of a FB/RB hitting holes off tackle, off guard and pound them back at 4-6 yards a pop and force them to tackle our RB's after they get past these lightassed Lineman.
    This will also play into one of our strengths and that is the play action.
    I look to see Bevell and company to let "Futureboy" try to exploit this a bit early on (Damnit) a few times to see if they are biting.

    To counter that I look for them to come with alot of Zone Blitz type schemes to try to shut down the running lanes as well as to take away passing lanes/put pressure on "Futureboy".

    Couple of other things to ponder......

    a.
    Our D faces a ZB scheme in practice every day.
    They should know how to best exploit this/shut down thier run.
    b.
    Brandon Marshall seems to be thier only legitimate passing threat.
    We will have to shut him down early to ensure we keep thier offense off the field.
    REC 92 YDS 1,211 AVG 13.2 TDS 6
    c. Elvis Dumervil, 12 sacks.
    Gotta stop that guy.
    Look to see Shank/Klieny working on him to negate that rush.
    (Hey, that means they won't be running alot of routes and not catching alot of passes if that happens you guys.
    ;D)
    d. DJ Williams is thier big Tackler. G's will need to get a head on him if he gets in thier Zone and the FB will probably be looking for him as well to ensure our RB's get some space.
    e. We will be playing in a very unique venue.
    Cold and a different altitude.
    Lets hope the boys are in great condition.
    Rotation on the DL might be an issue.
    Look to see both RB's in and out alot early to keep them both fresh for the second half when they should be able to exploit a tired DL from being pounded on by our guys who out wieght them by 30-40 lbs a piece.
    ;D

    Should be another good game and not an easy one.

    Vikes 28 Broncos 17
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    The Bronco's aren't as big of a pushover as some would believe.


    Defensively they are ranked 18th in overall defense and 30th against the run and 7th against the pass.

    Offensively they are ranked 13th in the pass and 9th in the running game.

    Phat Pat and K-will will need to bring thier A game against thier ZB scheme and our DE (as always) will need to get pressure on thier young signal caller (who I still think would look better as a Vikings) so that our LB's can cover the soft zones, TE's and throw a blitz in as necessary.

    As to AD/CT and our running attack.
    I believe that they can stack 8 in the box if they want to but it won't have any effect.
    Judging by some of the stats/specifics of thier DL they are a bit lighter than a average lineman but that does make them faster.


    With that said, they will be a pretty fast team on the field designed to pursue/close things on the edges.
    For all you guys out there who think going outside (Screens) is the best option you'd better rethink that.
    Our best option is to stay with traditional running plays of a FB/RB hitting holes off tackle, off guard and pound them back at 4-6 yards a pop and force them to tackle our RB's after they get past these lightassed Lineman.
    This will also play into one of our strengths and that is the play action.
    I look to see Bevell and company to let "Futureboy" try to exploit this a bit early on (Damnit) a few times to see if they are biting.

    To counter that I look for them to come with alot of Zone Blitz type schemes to try to shut down the running lanes as well as to take away passing lanes/put pressure on "Futureboy".

    Couple of other things to ponder......

    a.
    Our D faces a ZB scheme in practice every day.
    They should know how to best exploit this/shut down thier run.
    b.
    Brandon Marshall seems to be thier only legitimate passing threat.
    We will have to shut him down early to ensure we keep thier offense off the field.
    REC 92 YDS 1,211 AVG 13.2 TDS 6
    c. Elvis Dumervil, 12 sacks.
    Gotta stop that guy.
    Look to see Shank/Klieny working on him to negate that rush.
    (Hey, that means they won't be running alot of routes and not catching alot of passes if that happens you guys.
    ;D)
    d. DJ Williams is thier big Tackler. G's will need to get a head on him if he gets in thier Zone and the FB will probably be looking for him as well to ensure our RB's get some space.
    e. We will be playing in a very unique venue.
    Cold and a different altitude.
    Lets hope the boys are in great condition.
    Rotation on the DL might be an issue.
    Look to see both RB's in and out alot early to keep them both fresh for the second half when they should be able to exploit a tired DL from being pounded on by our guys who out wieght them by 30-40 lbs a piece.
    ;D

    Should be another good game and not an easy one.

    Vikes 28 Broncos 17
    Hey Marrdro:
    I agree with most of your post...I will highlight the area I have some question about and preface it with this. Try it yes....stick with it relentlessly until we are down by more than 2 TDs would be a huge mistake. I don't care what NFL defensive line we play against...if they stack 8-9 players in there you are not going to get many holes for 4-6 yards in most cases. I say try it and see....but be ready with plan B if A fails.

    Myself....I would not start this game with the usual sets we use. I would open up the play book and start with some 3 wide recievers or other deceptions. I would not run on first down on the opening offensive play. Maybe a short pass/slant or swing pass in play action?? The point is the Broncos have seen what works against us and have also seen our inability to make changes. Now is the time to exploit that mind set and come out with unpredictable plays right from the start. Yes...the players will have to execute these to have success, but if we want a win at Mile High we simply muct keep the Denver defense off balance and guessing more about what's coming.

    Cheers!

    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    The Bronco's aren't as big of a pushover as some would believe.


    Defensively they are ranked 18th in overall defense and 30th against the run and 7th against the pass.

    Offensively they are ranked 13th in the pass and 9th in the running game.

    Phat Pat and K-will will need to bring thier A game against thier ZB scheme and our DE (as always) will need to get pressure on thier young signal caller (who I still think would look better as a Vikings) so that our LB's can cover the soft zones, TE's and throw a blitz in as necessary.

    As to AD/CT and our running attack.
    I believe that they can stack 8 in the box if they want to but it won't have any effect.
    Judging by some of the stats/specifics of thier DL they are a bit lighter than a average lineman but that does make them faster.


    With that said, they will be a pretty fast team on the field designed to pursue/close things on the edges.
    For all you guys out there who think going outside (Screens) is the best option you'd better rethink that.
    Our best option is to stay with traditional running plays of a FB/RB hitting holes off tackle, off guard and pound them back at 4-6 yards a pop and force them to tackle our RB's after they get past these lightassed Lineman.
    This will also play into one of our strengths and that is the play action.
    I look to see Bevell and company to let "Futureboy" try to exploit this a bit early on (Damnit) a few times to see if they are biting.

    To counter that I look for them to come with alot of Zone Blitz type schemes to try to shut down the running lanes as well as to take away passing lanes/put pressure on "Futureboy".

    Couple of other things to ponder......

    a.
    Our D faces a ZB scheme in practice every day.
    They should know how to best exploit this/shut down thier run.
    b.
    Brandon Marshall seems to be thier only legitimate passing threat.
    We will have to shut him down early to ensure we keep thier offense off the field.
    REC 92 YDS 1,211 AVG 13.2 TDS 6
    c. Elvis Dumervil, 12 sacks.
    Gotta stop that guy.
    Look to see Shank/Klieny working on him to negate that rush.
    (Hey, that means they won't be running alot of routes and not catching alot of passes if that happens you guys.
    ;D)
    d. DJ Williams is thier big Tackler. G's will need to get a head on him if he gets in thier Zone and the FB will probably be looking for him as well to ensure our RB's get some space.
    e. We will be playing in a very unique venue.
    Cold and a different altitude.
    Lets hope the boys are in great condition.
    Rotation on the DL might be an issue.
    Look to see both RB's in and out alot early to keep them both fresh for the second half when they should be able to exploit a tired DL from being pounded on by our guys who out wieght them by 30-40 lbs a piece.
    ;D

    Should be another good game and not an easy one.

    Vikes 28 Broncos 17
    Hey Marrdro:
    I agree with most of your post...I will highlight the area I have some question about and preface it with this. Try it yes....stick with it relentlessly until we are down by more than 2 TDs would be a huge mistake. I don't care what NFL defensive line we play against...if they stack 8-9 players in there you are not going to get many holes for 4-6 yards in most cases. I say try it and see....but be ready with plan B if A fails.

    Myself....I would not start this game with the usual sets we use. I would open up the play book and start with some 3 wide recievers or other deceptions. I would not run on first down on the opening offensive play. Maybe a short pass/slant or swing pass in play action?? The point is the Broncos have seen what works against us and have also seen our inability to make changes. Now is the time to exploit that mind set and come out with unpredictable plays right from the start. Yes...the players will have to execute these to have success, but if we want a win at Mile High we simply muct keep the Denver defense off balance and guessing more about what's coming.

    Cheers!
    All good points but let me explain my way of thinking and I will use the Skins game to highlight that.

    Our D is very good against the run and yet the Skins continue to pound it right at the Williams wall.
    Was it effective early on?
    Nope but as time went on and the OL kept pounding on us they eventually started to see some gains in that area.

    It is all a chess match.
    How we got in checkmate in that game was to get down quick and thereby nullifying our ability to try to exploit the ground game by continually pounding the rock.

    Go back and look at our running plays in the first half of that game.
    Very few by AD (1 I think) was up the gut when all others were off Tackle and off Guard.


    If "Futureboy" wouldn't have gone and chucked it into Smoots hands at the first chance he got and then followed that up with another INT you would have seen the coaching staff start to work some play action fakes off of that running approach which would/should have lead to the creativity everyone is chiming for.

    If memory serves you will see that we do pass pretty early on in all games and sometimes it is even to a FB as well as some slants.

    Long story short, when "Futureboy" takes the field Sunday evening he will either be the hero or the goat.
    His chance will come within the first 5-10 plays depending on how things are going to use that ground attack to suck them in for a play action pass, which will lead into a draw or two, which will lead into a few slants or two all mixed in with hitting the line (Off Tackle/Off Gaurd) to soften them up and nullify a pass rush.

    Again it is all a chess match.
    Unfortunately for us the King is "Futureboy" who doesn't quiet get it yet that he doesn't have to try to make a play every damn time he is under pressure.

    Key note:
    Lets not forget a key point in all of this as well. Thier DL are on the smallish but speedy size.
    The best way to attack a small fast DL is to run at them and push them off the backwards off the ball with your bigger OL not try to string them out and let them have angles which take away from the strenght of your big bruisers.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Frostbite" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    The Bronco's aren't as big of a pushover as some would believe.


    Defensively they are ranked 18th in overall defense and 30th against the run and 7th against the pass.

    Offensively they are ranked 13th in the pass and 9th in the running game.

    Phat Pat and K-will will need to bring thier A game against thier ZB scheme and our DE (as always) will need to get pressure on thier young signal caller (who I still think would look better as a Vikings) so that our LB's can cover the soft zones, TE's and throw a blitz in as necessary.

    As to AD/CT and our running attack.
    I believe that they can stack 8 in the box if they want to but it won't have any effect.
    Judging by some of the stats/specifics of thier DL they are a bit lighter than a average lineman but that does make them faster.


    With that said, they will be a pretty fast team on the field designed to pursue/close things on the edges.
    For all you guys out there who think going outside (Screens) is the best option you'd better rethink that.
    Our best option is to stay with traditional running plays of a FB/RB hitting holes off tackle, off guard and pound them back at 4-6 yards a pop and force them to tackle our RB's after they get past these lightassed Lineman.
    This will also play into one of our strengths and that is the play action.
    I look to see Bevell and company to let "Futureboy" try to exploit this a bit early on (Damnit) a few times to see if they are biting.

    To counter that I look for them to come with alot of Zone Blitz type schemes to try to shut down the running lanes as well as to take away passing lanes/put pressure on "Futureboy".

    Couple of other things to ponder......

    a.
    Our D faces a ZB scheme in practice every day.
    They should know how to best exploit this/shut down thier run.
    b.
    Brandon Marshall seems to be thier only legitimate passing threat.
    We will have to shut him down early to ensure we keep thier offense off the field.
    REC 92 YDS 1,211 AVG 13.2 TDS 6
    c. Elvis Dumervil, 12 sacks.
    Gotta stop that guy.
    Look to see Shank/Klieny working on him to negate that rush.
    (Hey, that means they won't be running alot of routes and not catching alot of passes if that happens you guys.
    ;D)
    d. DJ Williams is thier big Tackler. G's will need to get a head on him if he gets in thier Zone and the FB will probably be looking for him as well to ensure our RB's get some space.
    e. We will be playing in a very unique venue.
    Cold and a different altitude.
    Lets hope the boys are in great condition.
    Rotation on the DL might be an issue.
    Look to see both RB's in and out alot early to keep them both fresh for the second half when they should be able to exploit a tired DL from being pounded on by our guys who out wieght them by 30-40 lbs a piece.
    ;D

    Should be another good game and not an easy one.

    Vikes 28 Broncos 17
    Hey Marrdro:
    I agree with most of your post...I will highlight the area I have some question about and preface it with this. Try it yes....stick with it relentlessly until we are down by more than 2 TDs would be a huge mistake. I don't care what NFL defensive line we play against...if they stack 8-9 players in there you are not going to get many holes for 4-6 yards in most cases. I say try it and see....but be ready with plan B if A fails.

    Myself....I would not start this game with the usual sets we use. I would open up the play book and start with some 3 wide recievers or other deceptions. I would not run on first down on the opening offensive play. Maybe a short pass/slant or swing pass in play action?? The point is the Broncos have seen what works against us and have also seen our inability to make changes. Now is the time to exploit that mind set and come out with unpredictable plays right from the start. Yes...the players will have to execute these to have success, but if we want a win at Mile High we simply muct keep the Denver defense off balance and guessing more about what's coming.

    Cheers!
    All good points but let me explain my way of thinking and I will use the Skins game to highlight that.

    Our D is very good against the run and yet the Skins continue to pound it right at the Williams wall.
    Was it effective early on?
    Nope but as time went on and the OL kept pounding on us they eventually started to see some gains in that area.

    It is all a chess match.
    How we got in checkmate in that game was to get down quick and thereby nullifying our ability to try to exploit the ground game by continually pounding the rock.

    Go back and look at our running plays in the first half of that game.
    Very few by AD (1 I think) was up the gut when all others were off Tackle and off Guard.


    If "Futureboy" wouldn't have gone and chucked it into Smoots hands at the first chance he got and then followed that up with another INT you would have seen the coaching staff start to work some play action fakes off of that running approach which would/should have lead to the creativity everyone is chiming for.
    If memory serves you will see that we do pass pretty early on in all games and sometimes it is even to a FB as well as some slants.

    Long story short, when "Futureboy" takes the field Sunday evening he will either be the hero or the goat.
    His chance will come within the first 5-10 plays depending on how things are going to use that ground attack to suck them in for a play action pass, which will lead into a draw or two, which will lead into a few slants or two all mixed in with hitting the line (Off Tackle/Off Gaurd) to soften them up and nullify a pass rush.

    Again it is all a chess match.
    Unfortunately for us the King is "Futureboy" who doesn't quiet get it yet that he doesn't have to try to make a play every gol 'darnit time he is under pressure.

    Key note:
    Lets not forget a key point in all of this as well. Thier DL are on the smallish but speedy size.
    The best way to attack a small fast DL is to run at them and push them off the backwards off the ball with your bigger OL not try to string them out and let them have angles which take away from the strenght of your big bruisers.

    Wow...got to agree with that..."Future Boy" (Nice Name) T.Jack is going to have to be able to make some plays....but that's another reason why I am in favor of some short...easy throws...from the get go. The coaches need to help him on first and second downs and try to get him some confidence and rythm early into this game. The 3rd and longs have to be limited, especially early on. Why not use our best play makers AD and C.Tay to full advantage...while helping T.Jack at the same time. Afterall....AD and C.Tay...either one are one step...one missed tackle...one catch beyond the LBs away from 6 pts.

    I agree....we must have success running too...I'd like to be less direct about it in this game....Let's see what game plan we use and see how the plays are executed. It would not surprise me if we ran on first and second down....but I think the Broncos will be prepared for that.

    Guess we will see my friend.


    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    Wow...got to agree with that..."Future Boy" (Nice Name)
    I stole it from Caine.
    He used it first.
    I just fits my mood about him better than "The Young Jedi" and is a hell of alot easier to type.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Frostbite" wrote:
    Wow...got to agree with that..."Future Boy" (Nice Name)
    I stole it from Caine.
    He used it first.
    I just fits my mood about him better than "The Young Jedi" and is a hell of alot easier to type.

    because you were able??


    GROAN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SORRY BUT IT WAS THERE!!


    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  10. #30
    digital420's Avatar
    digital420 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Week 17 Opp: Denver

    some good posts in this thread.

    I agree with most of what Marr says, in that We should be able to move their DL around, and open up lanes for the QB tandem to do their thing.

    as for thier LB's. they are fast.. and it will take some TE/WR help to break open the running game again.

    if we do though.. then it's short passing/slants until we get those safties to buy in.. and send Twill streakin!!

    at some point he has to get 1vs1.. and if we can use his speed.. FINALLY to our advantage.. and he can CATCH the !Q#$% thing.. it'll give him that much more of a % chance to remain a Viking..

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

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