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  1. #101
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    BREAKING NEWS! Fran the man Tarkenton was just spotted loading up on bengay and smelling salts at a local sports store and was overheard mumbling something along the lines of "it's my time to shine again Favre this, Favre that, #@$% Favre! "
    I bet you could use a cool one huh Clark...Now you're talkin Eddie...

  2. #102
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    I think we just line up peterson and harving in the backfield and take turns snapping directly to both of them. Cut out the middle man.

  3. #103
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1084123
    I think we just line up Peterson and harvin in the backfield and take turns snapping directly to both of them. Cut out the middle man.
    Actually, that's kind of a good idea.

    Eliminate the skinny receivers and load up with beefy blockers, too.

    We will rumble up and down the frozen field.

    Brilliant!
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  4. #104
    ndnorseman is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1083927
    Quote Originally Posted by "ndnorseman" #1083915
    Quote Originally Posted by "DiehardVikesFan" #1083904
    Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.

    Agreed.

    I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

    Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

    I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

    Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

    What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

    Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

    Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

    What is there to GAIN?

    Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

    Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.
    Losing the next three game absolutely will have an impact on the free agents. We finish this season 8-8 and we look like a team on the rebound, heading in the right direction (5-1 in the last 6). We finish 5-10 and we are a team in the midst of crisis with an uncertain future. Some, like Edwards will probably be gone anyway. But others like Rice are uncertain - and he will be entertaining some pretty big $$ offers from other teams.

    Okay...which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7? OR...should we maybe start the ONE QB who is more than likely going to be the ONLY one we see in a Vikings uniform AFTER this year?

    Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player. Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best? Hmmmmmmm....

    The difference with that "other young, athletic player with potential", is that he had the TEAM put on his shoulders before he was ready. NOTHING is being put on Webb's shoulders other than pads for these last 3 games.

    You DON'T roll over and give up in the NFL. Frazier certainly isn't going to - these next three games could shape his future as a Vikings coach. What about the players who may retire next year. Do you really think they want to go out with a losing record?

    So...if Webb starts the last 3 games, it's a foregone conclusion, no matter what, that they'll ALL be losses...?

    A coach puts the players on the field who give them the best chance to win each and every game. Every game. If he doesn't, then he isn't much of a coach.
    Again.....which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7?

  5. #105
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by "ndnorseman" #1084140
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1083927
    Quote Originally Posted by "ndnorseman" #1083915
    Quote Originally Posted by "DiehardVikesFan" #1083904
    Just go Webb. At least it'll be somewhat exciting to watch the ship sink.

    Agreed.

    I ask this: What is the POINT in trying so desperately to win the last 3 games? It's not like we have any shot left at the Playoffs. Webb is the healthiest, or LEAST banged up of our QBs, and he's the only one under contract for next year

    Someone mentioned that "mop-up" duty would be best for Webb? What would you call these last 3 GAMES, if not mop-up duty for a horribly sloppy mess of a season?

    I agree that it's not normally a good thing to throw a rookie QB against seasoned veteran Defenses...but that's generally because it's been done at the START of a season, and the rookie just isn't ready for the pressure of starting 16 games. Webb would only be doing it for 3 games, with no pressure to pull out a win in any of them (except maybe the Lions). If he does, great...and if he doesn't, no big deal.

    Look at it this way...his preseason would basically start 3 games and 8-9 months ahead of schedule (if there's a season at all). If he gets "shaken up" in these 3 games, he has an entire offseason to work out the jitters. So what if the O-line isn't the best for him? Like it's shown itself to be any better for T-Jack or Favre?

    What is there to LOSE by finishing out with Webb?

    Games - So what? If we lose out, that just means a higher Draft pick.

    Players - If they're going to leave, they will. It's not going to be because of who starts these last 3 games.

    What is there to GAIN?

    Confidence - A good play here and a good series there could do wonders for him...maybe develop into a good drive, which graduates into a good quarter...and so on and so forth. Frazier, Bevell, and Kevin Rogers (QB Coach) would be KEY in this, by not letting him get too discouraged with turnovers, sacks, etc. At this point, it's simply a learning process, or as I said, an extended preseason with nothing on the line.

    Experience - If, by the grace of the football gods, we actually DO have a season next year, Webb goes into the preseason already one step ahead of whoever we Draft, and is good competition for whatever FA QB we might bring in.
    Losing the next three game absolutely will have an impact on the free agents. We finish this season 8-8 and we look like a team on the rebound, heading in the right direction (5-1 in the last 6). We finish 5-10 and we are a team in the midst of crisis with an uncertain future. Some, like Edwards will probably be gone anyway. But others like Rice are uncertain - and he will be entertaining some pretty big $$ offers from other teams.

    Okay...which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7? OR...should we maybe start the ONE QB who is more than likely going to be the ONLY one we see in a Vikings uniform AFTER this year?

    Plus there is the danger of us actually having something in Webb - but forcing him in the game too soon often times has negative impact on the player. Now where have I heard that before? What other young, athletic player with potential was pushed into the starting role for the Vikings before he was ready his rookie year, and is now damaged goods at best? Hmmmmmmm....

    The difference with that "other young, athletic player with potential", is that he had the TEAM put on his shoulders before he was ready. NOTHING is being put on Webb's shoulders other than pads for these last 3 games.

    You DON'T roll over and give up in the NFL. Frazier certainly isn't going to - these next three games could shape his future as a Vikings coach. What about the players who may retire next year. Do you really think they want to go out with a losing record?

    So...if Webb starts the last 3 games, it's a foregone conclusion, no matter what, that they'll ALL be losses...?

    A coach puts the players on the field who give them the best chance to win each and every game. Every game. If he doesn't, then he isn't much of a coach.
    Again.....which of our other 2 broken QBs do you think has a chance of pulling out wins against Chicago and Philadelphia? Physically broken #4? Or mentally broken #7?
    The mentally broken #7. I think I was pretty clear about that. A healthy TJack, regardless of how bad, is still a better choice than a healthy Webb at this point. Although it appears to be moot because Jackson's toe is apparently going to keep him out.

    To address your other questions, no, TJack didn't have the team put on his shoulders before he was ready. His first start was in Week 16 of 2006 against GB, when we were 6-8. And people were acting the exact same way about TJack then as they are acting about Webb now. And it is as big of a mistake with Webb now as it was with TJack then.

    Are we guaranteed to lose the next three with Webb at QB? Of course not. Hell, there is the chance that he could win the next three, or we could lose the next 3 with TJack or Favre at QB. But when a coach is deciding which players to put on the field, he needs to decide which players give him the BEST chance to win. Out of Favre, TJack, and Webb, the ONLY time that Webb gives us a better chance to win right now is if the other two are injured. Now that we have Ramsey, it wouldn't even surprise me if Ramsey gets the start. He's taken about the same number of snaps with the first team in practice asn Webb has (zero).
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #106
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1084006
    Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.
    I've had turf toe, and there is more to it that just that. For me, the nerve just under the joint of the big toe was inflamed. It was very painful to walk, and running was damn near impossible. And I think once it has happened, you are more sensative to it in the future. Even now, many, many years after my playing days, I can step on something wrong or touch that pressure point and send jolts of pain up my entire leg. Think of it like your funny bone multiplied 1000 times.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #107
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Well, TJ could be ruined for good, then....if his turf toe is on the severe end of the spectrum.

    Shall we mourn or rejoice?
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  8. #108
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1084157
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1084006
    Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.
    Think of it like your funny bone multiplied 1000 times.
    I did, and it's fucking hilarious!!! Ok, worst joke ever. Couldn't help it.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  9. #109
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Here's an interview with Fraizer about possibly starting Webb. From the sounds of things, he's not worried about sending Webb out there, and they're discussed it already. Both are excited to see what he can do, so it's very possible now that Webb might be the guy for Monday.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/minnesota-vikings/09000d5d81cf348b/Frazier-confident-in-Webb

  10. #110
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    Re: Webb or TJ??? What Does Frazier Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1084157
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1084006
    Turf Toe is just a hyperextended toe. Shouldn't really affect a pocket passing QB if it's on his left foot, I don't know which one TJ hurt.
    I've had turf toe, and there is more to it that just that. For me, the nerve just under the joint of the big toe was inflamed. It was very painful to walk, and running was damn near impossible. And I think once it has happened, you are more sensative to it in the future. Even now, many, many years after my playing days, I can step on something wrong or touch that pressure point and send jolts of pain up my entire leg. Think of it like your funny bone multiplied 1000 times.
    I can't speak for it first hand, but I'd imagine it is much like any injury, you can get bad Turf Toe, or light turf toe. However, I'm willing to bet you didn't go through the recovery process that NFL players go through. I'm betting TJ being on IR is to make room for Ramsey, not so much that his injury is season ending.

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