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  1. #21
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    McNabb may have been everything you say but that didn't stop the knob slob bing on here by Vikings fans eager to sign him and that is my point. He was not really an upgrade and the same can be said for Smith. Go back to posts and articles on him from his first few years and tell me where he was any better than ponder. Why would we want to bring in another QB who gives us no real step up in potential. Yes, he is in his prime and he got benched for a second year player who had no performance record and the team is now much better than it was under smith. B he is not that good.
    I put Alex Smith in the same catergory as a Jason Campbell, a Good Qb that was ruined by changes to his OC EVERY single year. I believe for smith it was 6 OCs in 6 years or so.

    I still don't understand the McNabb comparison as he was over the Hill had no training camp and was playing behind an OL that had just lost their starting LT ( receipe for disaster).

    Your opinion that Smith provides no real increase over Ponder is your OPINION. It's my belief that he provides a substantial increase over Ponder, a Qb that cannot be counted on to stay healthy or throw for more than 100 yards on a regular basis. You may be down on Smith but what I saw is a guy that got benched not because he did anything wrong but because the guy behind him was/is an absolute nightmare for defenses. I mean smith's last game had him go 19/20 completions. The WR and Qb positions on this team is abysmal, dreadful, an abomination (choose your SAT word and insert here) . For you to sit here and think Ponder is in the same class of Qb to anyone but Kolb, Sanchez, and Gabbert, tells me you are delusional. Alex Smith is not an elite 10 Qb, but he is nicely in the middle tier with the Shaubs, Cutlers, Flaccos. His Median play is Ponder at his best.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I put Alex Smith in the same catergory as a Jason Campbell, a Good Qb that was ruined by changes to his OC EVERY single year. I believe for smith it was 6 OCs in 6 years or so.

    I still don't understand the McNabb comparison as he was over the Hill had no training camp and was playing behind an OL that had just lost their starting LT ( receipe for disaster).

    Your opinion that Smith provides no real increase over Ponder is your OPINION. It's my belief that he provides a substantial increase over Ponder, a Qb that cannot be counted on to stay healthy or throw for more than 100 yards on a regular basis. You may be down on Smith but what I saw is a guy that got benched not because he did anything wrong but because the guy behind him was/is an absolute nightmare for defenses. I mean smith's last game had him go 19/20 completions. The WR and Qb positions on this team is abysmal, dreadful, an abomination (choose your SAT word and insert here) . For you to sit here and think Ponder is in the same class of Qb to anyone but Kolb, Sanchez, and Gabbert, tells me you are delusional. Alex Smith is not an elite 10 Qb, but he is nicely in the middle tier with the Shaubs, Cutlers, Flaccos. His Median play is Ponder at his best.
    There is no quarterback that will have a great deal of success with the receivers that we currently have. Flacco has played brilliantly for a Ravens team, a team that has one receiver who can get open...on one route. If Flacco had legitimate weapons, they'd be even more dangerous than they already are.

    Right now, it's the same issue with Minnesota, save we have a far less accomplished quarterback. Outside of Percy, we don't have anybody that gets open. We need receivers, and we need them now. The problem is that rookie receivers don't usually light it up in their first season, especially where we're picking, and the free agents will cost a pretty penny. Fixing our passing attack is going to be a few years in the making.

  3. #23
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    Smith is not an improvement over Ponder. We do not need Alex Smith... at all.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  4. #24
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    Smith is alright now. He's what Ponder will probably be if we switch OCs for the next six years before giving him some stability. Why not just give Ponder some stability now, and let him reach his Smith-like level while he's still in his mid-20s?

  5. #25
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    I agree that Smith can drive this Peterson Powered offense well, but I also agree that Smith is who Ponder reminds me of most...a game manager who's not likely to win games by himself.

    My guess is that nobody wants to pay Smith 8mill/year to be a backup...us included. If somebody trades for him, they'll most likely be thinking starter at that rate. I'm thinking he'll be cut and a FA, which will mean, he gets some say in where he signs on next. There are a lot of new head coaches who will be looking for "their guy," and plenty of other teams who could use a better QB too...not sure how into signing up for a competition he's going to be, and I'm pretty sure we'll be giving Ponder the upper hand in any "competition" anyway, cuz, well, like it or not, I'm pretty sure Spielman and Frazier have already decided that they are going to give him year 3 to see if/how much he improves...

    It's a well documented 3-4 year learning curve for QBs, and it sure as hell sounds like they're expecting a breakout from him. Sure, you'll get a year one flash out of some surprising athletes like Cam, but they most often come crashing back to earth in year 2. If you look at Peyton, Young, Montana's early careers, you'll see it's usually year 4 or 5 that they really start clicking. Let's just hope Ponder doesn't improve slightly, barely enough in year 3 to give us hope, and him another year, before failing miserably in year 4!!?!

    But you can't leave our severe lack of talent at WR out of the equation either. It goes both ways people, in a team game, you're either making each other look real good OR real bad without much inbetween, because in order to succeed ALL parts of the offense have to do their job successfully, blocking/throwing/catching etc, but if any one link in the chain fails, the whole freaking play is a failure. Montana and Young had Rice and Owens. Peyton had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, and now, Decker and Thomas. Brady is real good, but the bowls he's won have been with great defenses and a good gameplan backing him up...not to mention 2 of the best TEs in the game, perhaps the best slot WR ever, Moss' best season, etc, etc.

    I believe that our WR depth is so lacking that we can't call deep shots that scare anybody, and are basically forced into short, often behind the LOS passes, which are really only an extension of the running game which the defense is already concentrating on stopping. Basically, it's hard to judge the QB or playcalling when we don't have the talent around them to call what we need to back up the D a bit and give Peterson a bit better chance to bust off some big ones!

    So, what we have to do, is fix the WR depth and give whoever our QB is a chance. IF Ponder stinks up his third year, it'll be easier to justify moving on because we'll have given him 3 years to grow and the tools to do the job. And, we'll have given the team a better chance to attract a Free Agent QB, because nobody want to sign on where it looks like he doesn't have a chance.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  6. #26
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I put Alex Smith in the same catergory as a Jason Campbell, a Good Qb that was ruined by changes to his OC EVERY single year. I believe for smith it was 6 OCs in 6 years or so.

    I still don't understand the McNabb comparison as he was over the Hill had no training camp and was playing behind an OL that had just lost their starting LT ( receipe for disaster).

    Your opinion that Smith provides no real increase over Ponder is your OPINION. It's my belief that he provides a substantial increase over Ponder, a Qb that cannot be counted on to stay healthy or throw for more than 100 yards on a regular basis. You may be down on Smith but what I saw is a guy that got benched not because he did anything wrong but because the guy behind him was/is an absolute nightmare for defenses. I mean smith's last game had him go 19/20 completions. The WR and Qb positions on this team is abysmal, dreadful, an abomination (choose your SAT word and insert here) . For you to sit here and think Ponder is in the same class of Qb to anyone but Kolb, Sanchez, and Gabbert, tells me you are delusional. Alex Smith is not an elite 10 Qb, but he is nicely in the middle tier with the Shaubs, Cutlers, Flaccos. His Median play is Ponder at his best.
    I'm not a Smith fan... I don't think he gives us any upside on offense... He's a glorified game manager don't screw it up QB just like Ponder is... He will bring more stability but as much as I hate Ponder, I think he has more upside than Smith.. Either way, I don't like either one.

    I would rather us try and trade a late round pick and look at Matt Flynn or some other Qb like Matt Moore. I doubt Smith would even win the job over Ponder given Spielman's hard on for the guy...

  7. #27
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I'm not a Smith fan... I don't think he gives us any upside on offense... He's a glorified game manager don't screw it up QB just like Ponder is... He will bring more stability but as much as I hate Ponder, I think he has more upside than Smith.. Either way, I don't like either one.

    I would rather us try and trade a late round pick and look at Matt Flynn or some other Qb like Matt Moore. I doubt Smith would even win the job over Ponder given Spielman's hard on for the guy...
    There will be no competition at QB next year. It will remain that way until Ponder gets hurt or they totally give up on him. As long as Ponder is on the team, he will be the 'chosen one'.
    They may bring in a replacement for Webb, but believe me, he will be a low cost scrub. It's just the way Spielman does things.

  8. #28
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I put Alex Smith in the same catergory as a Jason Campbell, a Good Qb that was ruined by changes to his OC EVERY single year. I believe for smith it was 6 OCs in 6 years or so.
    Great, you want to bring in a QB who has the upside of Jason Campbell.That is just the thing that screams SB winner to me.

    I still don't understand the McNabb comparison as he was over the Hill had no training camp and was playing behind an OL that had just lost their starting LT ( receipe for disaster).
    the comparison is that he was not much(and it turns out not at all) an improvement over what we already had other than he took up roster space and cap room,both of which are still at a premium. But if you look back at the posts on here there was a big majority who were all gushing over the prospect of bringing in the veteran to run the team and I see the same thing with Smith- People thinking he is more capable than he is and overestimating the impact he could have on the team.

    Your opinion that Smith provides no real increase over Ponder is your OPINION.
    Well, yes. It is my opinion. Just like you saying he will make the offense better is your opinion. That is how it works.



    It's my belief(Opinion, in other words) that he provides a substantial increase over Ponder, a Qb that cannot be counted on to stay healthy or throw for more than 100 yards on a regular basis.
    I think if you look back at the last 8 years or so, it will be shown that Ponder has been able to stay healthy longer than the majority of QB's we have put under center. Not only that, but if you look at Ponder's stats this year, which is his second, and the stats for Smith in his second season of 2006, you will see that the numbers are pretty darn even across the board with Ponder having more yards, more TD's,higher comp %, fewer INT's and a higher TD%. So just how you think that there is no chance Ponder can be just as good as him is beyond me. And Alex had 5 sub 100 games in his first 2 years and had 5 sub 150 yard games.

    there is nothing that says he is going to be better than Ponder and that is not just my opinion, it is backed by data.


    You may be down on Smith but what I saw is a guy that got benched not because he did anything wrong but because the guy behind him was/is an absolute nightmare for defenses.
    Well hells bells, did you think maybe we could see if we could get a QB who is like that too instead of settling for a guy that they knew would not get them to the next level? Maybe just getting to the playoffs is all you are looking for.




    I mean smith's last game had him go 19/20 completions.
    And the week before he went 14-23 for 140 yards with Crabtree, Moss, Manningham,Davis and company. Just think of how great he would be throwing to aromashoe and jenkins.



    The WR and Qb positions on this team is abysmal, dreadful, an abomination (choose your SAT word and insert here) .
    So how is a QB who is basically an older Ponder going to change that?

    For you to sit here and think Ponder is in the same class of Qb to anyone but Kolb, Sanchez, and Gabbert, tells me you are delusional
    .

    Now, hold your horses there sunshine, I don't remember ever elevating Ponder to any level other than where he is. Would you please point out anywhere that I ever have? And if not then please refrain from injecting flyshit into the proverbial pepper.


    Alex Smith is not an elite 10 Qb, but he is nicely in the middle tier with the Shaubs, Cutlers, Flaccos. His Median play is Ponder at his best.
    Well, there is your delusion staring you right in the face. Then again aside from possibly Flacco, I am not going to be advocating for any of those mid level guys to be my teams QB and Flacco only took his leap after this weekend and might not stay there long. If you are content with middle tier QB's then Smith just might be your guy. I am of the mindset that we keep trying to get an elite guy by whatever means we can and until then not settling for bringing in middle aged guys who never quite made the transition from good to great.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I'm not a Smith fan... I don't think he gives us any upside on offense... He's a glorified game manager don't screw it up QB just like Ponder is... He will bring more stability but as much as I hate Ponder, I think he has more upside than Smith.. Either way, I don't like either one.

    I would rather us try and trade a late round pick and look at Matt Flynn or some other Qb like Matt Moore. I doubt Smith would even win the job over Ponder given Spielman's hard on for the guy...
    Amen...

  10. #30
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    I grow tired of arguing... it's the problem with the purple shades...even when you player is dead last in the league and the truth is staring you in the face, you can depend on the Vikings hopeful to say,
    " this guy compares to this guy". He doesn't! Ponder is a bum just like TJ was a bum. Just like Webb is a bum. I have been advocating for a new QB because we have possible the 2nd worst QB situation in football. Atleast Jacksonville and the Jest(Jets) are about to be sorted out. We will continue with this crap of 8 games of terrible QB play followed by 1 good game and all will be forgotten. It's the same shit we had with TJ and people sat there and proclaimed him a "good QB"
    Aren't you tired of hanging you hat on a guy that you have to hope turns out ok? To stand and say that Alex Smith and Ponder is on the same level is idotic. Also, Smith didn't just get his guys to the playoffs, he got them to the NFC championship and lost in OT. I gues the #FACTS are hard to keep track of when you are just making things up as you go. Fact smith didn't cost his teams games... #Fact, I can point out 4 games we lost because of Ponder. Why am I arguing this when I can just get the film of Ponder hitting a Defender in the back with an attempted pass. He is terrible!

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