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  1. #21
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090091
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1089916
    What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

    The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.
    Still wouldn't have alleviated or eliminated the fact that who ever took over for the Chiller would still have to pick from the same dregs at QB that the staff picked from.

    Unless of course you are aware of any Vet QB's that we passed in FA on or rookie QB's that we passed on in the draft that are now lighting it up in the league.

    Aside from Warner (who most on here would have shit a brick on if we would have signed in 2006) and Bree's, who again, would have shit a brick on, there have been no other options for us to solve the QB position.
    I suppose we could have signed Vick. After all he was in the pro bowl last year. We could have traded for McNabb, who I like less than Brett but he played in the same system as us so possibly he would have played better than he did in Washington.

    We could have picked McCoy or Clausen in the draft. Both of them were starting last year and depending on how the draft goes they both very well might be starting this year.


    What exactly was the shit a brick comment on Brees about anyway?

  2. #22
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090247
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090124
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090090
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1089903
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1089902
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1089900
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1089898
    Looks like the [strike]Favre[/strike]Childress experiment could end up costing us playoffs in 2011 as well.
    I fixed it for you.

    Had Brett never been on the team we would be in no different situation now other than we MIGHT still have sage on the team to be a stop gap QB. The real problem was with Childress and he was going to tear the team apart whether we had Brett or not. In reality all Brett probably did is extend the Childress era by a year with the phenomenal season he turned in in 2009. Without him Childress probably didn't get an extension and faced with what he had at QB he might have been out the door after that season.
    No you didn't.

    Had we not acquired Favre & started TJ or Sage in 2009, we'd have already signed a better QB in 2010 or drafted one in 2009/2010 & been a year or two ahead of the game.
    As Marrdro is fond of asking when this line of talk arises....

    "Who would we have signed"? Or, more telling, "Who would we have drafted"?

    Everyone - except Childress it seems - knew Favre was a 1-2 year band-aid on the QB position, but Chiller did NOTHING to address it while he had the opportunity. NOTHING.

    And, based upon Chiller track record, he more than likely would have brought in over-the-hill QB's to help train Jackson, and kept Tarvaris in there despite a (likely) series of forgettable games and a flurry of fan backlash...punctuated by a slew of excuses for why it wasn't Jackson's fault, and he just needs "more time" or "a better line" or "different receivers".

    No, this was Childress's fault all the way. He spent 5 years NOT addressing the QB issue...Favre didn't alter that.

    Caine
    Your finally catching on.........snicker......

    Only problem is, your still blaming the Chiller cause he didn't go out and find a jewel amongst a bunch of crap.

    The same issue is gonna filter over for Leslie I fear. No young QB's will be available in this draft that have any hopes of coming in and not sucking for atleast 2 to 3 years.

    No viable options in the FA market.

    As I said in another thread, the best option in the FA market right now is TJ. The staff probably won't do that cause of the upheaval yutz fans will have.

    Sage is not, nor was he ever an option other than in Spielmans mind. Heck, the only reason he is still in the league is because of Spielman, well that, and the other fact that there just aren't any good QB's running around available.

    I think the best way to say it, and really be accurate is....

    He spent 5 years without any option to fix the QB issue because there were no options out there......
    Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

    For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

    The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

    The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

    He stuck with Jackson.

    He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

    He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

    And Jackson kept on sucking.

    So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

    When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

    Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

    And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

    Caine
    He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

    Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

    Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

    Drafted Four
    2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
    7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
    5 John Booty USC
    6 Joe Webb UAB

    Traded for or aquired via FA
    Rosenfell
    Bollinger
    Holcomb
    Noodle

    Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

    I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

    Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:
    If you call that trying their best effort then it is a good thing Childress is gone before he tried the whole team into the ground.

  3. #23
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090247
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090124
    Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

    For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

    The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

    The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

    He stuck with Jackson.

    He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

    He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

    And Jackson kept on sucking.

    So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

    When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

    Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

    And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

    Caine
    He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

    Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

    Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

    Drafted Four
    2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
    7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
    5 John Booty USC
    6 Joe Webb UAB

    Traded for or aquired via FA
    Rosenfell
    Bollinger
    Holcomb
    Noodle

    Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

    I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

    Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:
    I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

    You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

    You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

    You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

    And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

    Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

    And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

    Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

    What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

    Wouldn't work.

    We went and got Jared Allen instead.

    What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

    Wouldn't work.

    We got Greenway instead.

    Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

    Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

    See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

    You can't have it both ways.

    If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

    If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

    You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

    Caine

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090267
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090247
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090124
    Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

    For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

    The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

    The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

    He stuck with Jackson.

    He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

    He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

    And Jackson kept on sucking.

    So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

    When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

    Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

    And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

    Caine
    He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

    Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

    Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

    Drafted Four
    2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
    7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
    5 John Booty USC
    6 Joe Webb UAB

    Traded for or aquired via FA
    Rosenfell
    Bollinger
    Holcomb
    Noodle

    Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

    I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

    Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:
    I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

    You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

    You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

    You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

    And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

    Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

    And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

    Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

    What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

    Wouldn't work.

    We went and got Jared Allen instead.

    What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

    Wouldn't work.

    We got Greenway instead.

    Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

    Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

    See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

    You can't have it both ways.

    If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

    If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

    You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

    Caine
    OK, if you don't like what they "Tried" with, you tell me the other options they should have tried.

    I believe, in the thread I created that actually listed who was available, you came up with Carr.

    Tell me how he is any different that the stuff that was out there that we tried with.

    What doesn't work around here, and if there is any sort of integrity on a site of this nature (which I say there isn't) is that you continue to say crap like this and don't really look at the proof.

    Again, who, other than who we brought in, would you have considered "Trying"?

    LOL, you can't have it both ways either. Your integrity is on the line just as much as mine my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090300
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090267
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090247
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090124
    Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

    For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

    The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

    The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

    He stuck with Jackson.

    He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

    He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

    And Jackson kept on sucking.

    So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

    When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

    Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

    And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

    Caine
    He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

    Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

    Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

    Drafted Four
    2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
    7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
    5 John Booty USC
    6 Joe Webb UAB

    Traded for or aquired via FA
    Rosenfell
    Bollinger
    Holcomb
    Noodle

    Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

    I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

    Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:
    I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

    You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

    You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

    You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

    And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

    Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

    And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

    Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

    What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

    Wouldn't work.

    We went and got Jared Allen instead.

    What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

    Wouldn't work.

    We got Greenway instead.

    Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

    Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

    See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

    You can't have it both ways.

    If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

    If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

    You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

    Caine
    OK, if you don't like what they "Tried" with, you tell me the other options they should have tried.

    I believe, in the thread I created that actually listed who was available, you came up with Carr.

    Tell me how he is any different that the stuff that was out there that we tried with.

    What doesn't work around here, and if there is any sort of integrity on a site of this nature (which I say there isn't) is that you continue to say crap like this and don't really look at the proof.

    Again, who, other than who we brought in, would you have considered "Trying"?

    LOL, you can't have it both ways either. Your integrity is on the line just as much as mine my friend.
    Other options - by year:

    2006 Free Agents:
    Drew Brees
    John Kitna
    Jeff Garcia
    David Carr

    2007 FA's:
    Matt Schaub
    Jeff Garcia (again)

    2008 FA's:
    Shaun Hill

    2009 FA's:
    Matt Cassel

    2007 Draft choices:
    Kevin Kolb (could have easily traded up for him)

    2008 Draft Choices:
    Joe Flacco - we traded for Allen...maybe we shouldn't have? Just saying MAYBE.

    2010 Draft:
    Tim Tebow
    Jimmy Clausen
    Colt McCoy

    Any one of those options would have been arguably better than Jackson.

    Caine

  6. #26
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090307
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090300
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090267
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090247
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090124
    Let's be completely honest here...no one really KNOWS who will pan out and who won't. Not until you see them play a few times.

    For example, while I argued AGAINST starting Jackson in '07, I didn't KNOW he would fail...not until '08.

    The same holds true in reverse - who KNEW Aaron Rodgers would be a star? 23 teams DIDN'T...or they would have drafted him. Green Bay needed a QB, Rodgers fell to them, and they got a great pick.

    The POINT is that you have to TRY. Chiller didn't. He didn't bring guys in, he didn't offer options, and he flat out PASSED on the 2-3 hindsight viable options that we all AGREED then AND NOW that he should have looked at.

    He stuck with Jackson.

    He kept telling us how much Jackson had improved.

    He kept telling us Jackson was ready.

    And Jackson kept on sucking.

    So, yes, I blame Chiller. Not for FAILING, but for not TRYING.

    When you enter a season with 3 QB's on your roster - 1 a 6th round Wide receiver pick rookie, 1 a retirement bound band-aid, and 1 a 5 year failed project in the final year of his contract, that is NOT planning ahead.

    Chiller fell in love with Jackson - hitched his wagon to Jackson - staked his professional reputation on Jackson - then couldn't deliver with Jackson. A more objective man would have recognized the need to seek an alternate QB...Chiller was too proud/foolish to do so.

    And, as a final note, YOU keep saying how Jackson might blossom under the tutelage of a new franchise. That argument cuts both ways. I would submit that the same might be true for any of the QB prospects we DIDN'T look at had they come here.

    Caine
    He didn't try? WHAT....First, that statement is totally wrong. Mostly cause the Chiller wasn't the only one working the issue. It was the whole fricken staff my friend.

    Unless of course you still believe that the HC runs around doing everything when it comes to player personnnel moves.

    Second, They did try, problem is, the ones they brought in, never worked out. Heck, truth of the matter is, and you won't admit it, that TJ worked out to be the best one they brought in.

    Drafted Four
    2 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State
    7 Tyler Thigpen Coastal Carolina
    5 John Booty USC
    6 Joe Webb UAB

    Traded for or aquired via FA
    Rosenfell
    Bollinger
    Holcomb
    Noodle

    Not sure, however, I think there are atleast 4 other "Camp Arms" that have been brought in for a look.

    I think you need a grip on reality my friend. If nothing else, the Vikings have been one of the most "Active" teams in the QB search.

    Didn't try anything my ass. You make me snicker my friend. :laugh:
    I need a grip on reality? From where I'm sitting, you are the one dealing with delusions, mein freund.

    You're calling Holcomb, Bollinger, and Rosenfels, "Trying"?

    You're calling token late round draft picks, "trying"?

    You want to characterize Frerotte as "trying"?

    And while acquiring Favre was "trying", it was "trying to save my job"...and then he BLEW IT by not TRYING to bring in a legit future QB during that 2 year period.

    Don't confuse the signing of a boat load of sub par veterans and a series of late round "value picks" with actually TRYING.

    And just because you sign a LOT of players at a certain position doesn't mean you've signed anyone with any real potential.

    Quality, not quantity, is what determines "Trying".

    What if we'd TRIED to increase QB pressure by signing a late round DE?

    Wouldn't work.

    We went and got Jared Allen instead.

    What if we'd TRIED to improve our Linebacker corps by drafting a series of "value picks" and aging veterans?

    Wouldn't work.

    We got Greenway instead.

    Shall we TRY and fix our O-line with late round picks and scrub FA's? If I recall correctly, YOU are one of the biggest proponents of drafting OL/DL early....

    Well, let's NOT do that...we'll grab a couple value guys and FA cast offs, pat ourselves on the back for TRYING, then look confused when it DOESN'T WORK.

    See a pattern? You're dangerously close to hypocrisy here. You're lauding and defending a course of action for one position that you would - and frequently DO - condemn for another.

    You can't have it both ways.

    If Chiller "Tried", then we should be able to fix our O-Line and D-Line issues with value picks and scrub FA's.

    If that's unlikely to work - and it is - then how in the floop can you sit there and even TRY and sell the notion that Chiller tried to fix the QB position when he OBVIOUSLY didn't try very hard.

    You can't. Not really. Not if you want to retain even a shred of integrity.

    Caine
    OK, if you don't like what they "Tried" with, you tell me the other options they should have tried.

    I believe, in the thread I created that actually listed who was available, you came up with Carr.

    Tell me how he is any different that the stuff that was out there that we tried with.

    What doesn't work around here, and if there is any sort of integrity on a site of this nature (which I say there isn't) is that you continue to say crap like this and don't really look at the proof.

    Again, who, other than who we brought in, would you have considered "Trying"?

    LOL, you can't have it both ways either. Your integrity is on the line just as much as mine my friend.
    Other options - by year:

    2006 Free Agents:
    Drew Brees
    John Kitna
    Jeff Garcia
    David Carr

    2007 FA's:
    Matt Schaub
    Jeff Garcia (again)

    2008 FA's:
    Shaun Hill

    2009 FA's:
    Matt Cassel

    2007 Draft choices:
    Kevin Kolb (could have easily traded up for him)

    2008 Draft Choices:
    Joe Flacco - we traded for Allen...maybe we shouldn't have? Just saying MAYBE.

    2010 Draft:
    Tim Tebow
    Jimmy Clausen
    Colt McCoy

    Any one of those options would have been arguably better than Jackson.

    Caine
    Don't forget that we could have kept Thigpen and cut Jacksons ass the second year.

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1090256
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090091
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1089916
    What makes you think that? There really wasn't anyone to sign and Childress certainly didn't put a priority on signing any quality QB's in the draft so I really have to wonder how you could have gotten to that conclusion.

    The only way we would have been a year or two ahead at this time is if Childress had been fired a year or two earlier.
    Still wouldn't have alleviated or eliminated the fact that who ever took over for the Chiller would still have to pick from the same dregs at QB that the staff picked from.

    Unless of course you are aware of any Vet QB's that we passed in FA on or rookie QB's that we passed on in the draft that are now lighting it up in the league.

    Aside from Warner (who most on here would have shit a brick on if we would have signed in 2006) and Bree's, who again, would have shit a brick on, there have been no other options for us to solve the QB position.
    I suppose we could have signed Vick. After all he was in the pro bowl last year. We could have traded for McNabb, who I like less than Brett but he played in the same system as us so possibly he would have played better than he did in Washington.

    We could have picked McCoy or Clausen in the draft. Both of them were starting last year and depending on how the draft goes they both very well might be starting this year.


    What exactly was the shit a brick comment on Brees about anyway?
    Would have you signed Vick? There is no way in hell the Ownership group was gonna OK bringing in a dog killer. No way.

    McNabb, going into last season I would have agreed with you on. Good thing the staff evaluated him better than us yutz fans as well as the Deadskin staff. No way in heck I would bring him in this year. His arm is dead.

    Both McCoy and Clausen, more so Clausen are considered busts already. I think its to soon to tell about McCoy, but I agree on Clausen and the only reason they might start again this year, is because there just isn't anything better out there.

    To the Brees comment, most fans, like most teams, thought he was to big of a risk to take on because of his recent surgery. If the Vikes would have brought him in, most fans would have shit a brick.

    As I've said repeatedly on this site, the state of the NFL QB is really really bad. Are there a couple of exciting kids that have come out in that last 3 years or so? Sure, but they are few and far between. The Vets that are good, or were good at one time, are only getting worse over time.

    Trust me when I say this, but when teams are trading for the likes of Campbell and Whitehurst, QB's like TJ are gonna get serious looks.

    Don't take that last part of my comment wrong. I am not, nor have I ever said (what you contend) that TJ is the next greatest thing to football. All I am saying is that he has gotten better each and every year. After sitting behind the Noodle, and watching how the WCO should really be run (2009), and seeing that his best progression came when he sat behind Ferrotte and watched, I can't help but think he is finally NFL ready.

    If I can see that, I'm sure there is a team out there that needs a QB, that will see it that way as well. Truth of the matter is, (back to the state of the QB), there will probably be several teams that will look at him, again, not that he is great, but because there is nothing better out there.

    If you don't take anything from this post, take this, go look at the FA list out there, then look at the QB's coming out in this draft. Who, from all of that, do you think is at the level a team needs when it comes to a QB who can win for a team.

    Not many. That, IMHO, is why your gonna see teams put an emphasis on building a team instead of looking for a QB.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1090307
    2006 Free Agents:
    Drew Brees
    John Kitna
    Jeff Garcia
    David Carr
    Carr - Again, really? What has he done in this league? Atleast TJ has a winning record and didn't get usurped by a guy this year that was sweeping streets and didn't even go to camp.

    Garcia - First, he is a career 9-7 QB. Isn't it you who uses the "Mediocrity" statement all the time.

    Kitna - I will almost give you that one. Honestly though, what would have you really said if the staff would have brought him in?

    Brees - Again, I agree on him, but if you really look at the timing, I don't think the Vikes had a shot at him. His visits went firts to the Phins and then to the Ain'ts with most teams passing on him because of his arm. I for one, wouldn't have wanted him on the team given what we knew at the time.

    2007 FA's:
    Matt Schaub
    Jeff Garcia (again)
    Please, don't use Garcia again. Atleast TJ has a winning record and is still in the NFL. Garcia, well, he is in the UFL. If you go on the premise that he isn't on a NFL staff, well then, he can't be considered an option. Besides, the first two times he was available he pretty much jetted to one team and didn't give other teams an chance to bring him in. (Reality my friend).

    Matt Schaub was available. Problem is, the asking price. Honestly, would you have given the asking price? Most teams didn't.

    2008 FA's:
    Shaun Hill
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Almost as laughable as Carr. Comeon Caine, your really reaching, but I do appreciate the effort.

    2009 FA's:
    Matt Cassel
    What would have you done? Cassel or the Noodle. Can't have both. On a side note, I bet I can go find comments from you were you probably said he hadn't shown/proven anything.

    2007 Draft choices:
    Kevin Kolb (could have easily traded up for him)
    We could have trade up for Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez. Comeon my friend. I said who was available, not who we could have got if a dream scenario happened.

    2008 Draft Choices:
    Joe Flacco - we traded for Allen...maybe we shouldn't have? Just saying MAYBE.
    Nice, I like this one. I need to look at it a bit harder. So far, I give you this one.

    2010 Draft:
    Tim Tebow
    Jimmy Clausen
    Colt McCoy
    Why draft more projects? None of these are viable starters coming out nor are they viable starters now.

    In case you haven't been watching.......Orton will start for the Broncos, Clausen is considered a bust already and the team is looking at QBs. McCoy, I think, is gonna get one more chance this year, but he isn't going in as the starter.


    Any one of those options would have been arguably better than Jackson.

    Caine
    Arguably, yes. Realistically, no, with one exception.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    soonerbornNbred is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Give it up Marty TJ will NEVER qb a nfl team as the starter.... it wont happen, just like Chilly will never HC another NFL team they both had their shots and blew it....Just walk away your sounding foolish

  10. #30
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings would be team hit hardest by lockout

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090371
    Would have you signed Vick? There is no way in hell the Ownership group was gonna OK bringing in a dog killer. No way.
    He did the time and paid his price. The league reinstated him so yes, I believe the FO could have signed him. I am not one who wanted him at QB but if the only choice was him or TJ then Vick wins in a landslide.


    McNabb, going into last season I would have agreed with you on. Good thing the staff evaluated him better than us yutz fans as well as the Deadskin staff. No way in heck I would bring him in this year. His arm is dead.
    Or he needed to adjust to the system. I put that one out there for you to cut and paste as an excuse for Jackson over the next few years until he is out of the league.......



    Both McCoy and Clausen, more so Clausen are considered busts already. I think its to soon to tell about McCoy, but I agree on Clausen and the only reason they might start again this year, is because there just isn't anything better out there.

    To the Brees comment, most fans, like most teams, thought he was to big of a risk to take on because of his recent surgery. If the Vikes would have brought him in, most fans would have shit a brick.

    That is pure BS. I don't know of anyone who was even remotely concerned about his health. If that is a problem then what the hell chance does Jackson have of getting picked up considering he is made of glass?


    As I've said repeatedly on this site, the state of the NFL QB is really really bad. Are there a couple of exciting kids that have come out in that last 3 years or so? Sure, but they are few and far between. The Vets that are good, or were good at one time, are only getting worse over time.
    Actually I think the QB's in the league on average are very very good compared to the past. You view is just skewed from having your head up jackson's butt for 5 years. Some fresh air would change your perspective:woohoo:

    Rothlisberger
    Manning
    Brady
    Rivers
    Ryan
    Rodgers
    Cutler
    Bradford
    Dirty Sanchez
    Cassell

    That is a darn solid top ten list that would stack up well against any decade.



    T
    rust me when I say this, but when teams are trading for the likes of Campbell and Whitehurst, QB's like TJ are gonna get serious looks.
    Well, he certainly got plenty of run when he was put on waivers last year.....

    He probably will get a look as a reserve. He might even get a shot on a team that is going nowhere to start but only because he is going in the same direction.

    Don't take that last part of my comment wrong. I am not, nor have I ever said (what you contend) that TJ is the next greatest thing to football. All I am saying is that he has gotten better each and every year. After sitting behind the Noodle, and watching how the WCO should really be run (2009), and seeing that his best progression came when he sat behind Ferrotte and watched, I can't help but think he is finally NFL ready.

    What you think and what others know are 2 very different things. Tell us exactly what he is ready for and how that is going to translate on the field. What great leaps in ability have you seen that nobody else on the staff or that evaluate talent in the NFL have? Please, spell it out.




    If I can see that, I'm sure there is a team out there that needs a QB, that will see it that way as well. Truth of the matter is, (back to the state of the QB), there will probably be several teams that will look at him, again, not that he is great, but because there is nothing better out there.
    I am sure your phone is going to be ringing any day. Funny, you ask me if I am some sort of QB guru, which I have never claimed to be. Then you go out and make a statement that because you see something that there will also be a team somewhere who see it the same way. Kinda hypocritical isn't it?


    If you don't take anything from this post, take this, go look at the FA list out there, then look at the QB's coming out in this draft. Who, from all of that, do you think is at the level a team needs when it comes to a QB who can win for a team.
    Marc Bulger (UFA) - Baltimore
    David Carr (UFA) - San Francisco
    Kellen Clemens (UFA) - NY Jets
    Kerry Collins (UFA) - Tennessee
    Todd Collins (UFA) - Chicago
    Brodie Croyle (UFA) - Kansas City
    Dennis Dixon (RFA) - Pittsburgh
    Trent Edwards (UFA) - Jacksonville
    Brett Favre (UFA) - Minnesota
    Charlie Frye (UFA) - Oakland
    Bruce Gradkowski (UFA) - Oakland
    Chris Greisen (UFA) - Dallas
    Rex Grossman (UFA) - Washington
    Caleb Hanie (RFA) - Chicago
    Matt Hasselbeck (UFA) - Seattle
    Tarvaris Jackson (UFA) - Minnesota
    Matt Leinart (UFA) - Houston
    J.P. Losman (UFA) - Seattle
    Peyton Manning (UFA) - Indianapolis
    Luke McCown (UFA) - Jacksonville
    Matt Moore (UFA) - Carolina
    J.T. O'Sullivan (UFA) - Oakland
    Jordan Palmer (RFA) - Cincinnati


    Not many. That, IMHO, is why your gonna see teams put an emphasis on building a team instead of looking for a QB.
    I believe that I bolded 9 that I would take over Jackson and in the draft there are another 5-6 that would be on my list ahead of him. Then you can throw in guys like Kolb, McNabb,Tebow etc that might be available via trade and I just don't see his door getting busted down in the rush.

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