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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    Ogletree is, as "kevoncox" already pointed our, a former safety and has good hips and explosiveness. I also like what you're saying about his versatility. This is because I believe Erin Henderson can perform just as good, perhaps better, at the inside. And I think the coaches also have this in mind. Don't be so surprised if Minnesota drafts an OLB instead of an MLB high in this draft.

    On another note, I find it hard to pick the best cover inside linebacker in this draft. Ogletree doesn't seem to have the instinct (perhaps that's part of the reason he was moved from safety in the first place), Kevin Minter is more of a run-stopper, Arthur Brown has nice quickness, but is not a big playmaker. Here's the ironic part: Numbers such as 40 yard time is being overly focused on, but other numbers which should be a big part in the process of evaluating Te'o are swept under the rug. Because strictly statistically speaking, Manti Te'o is the best cover inside linebacker coming out of college in a long time. Being more realistic, I'm very aware of that many of the INT's are about "being in the right place" as one would say, but it still should hold some merit. 7 interceptions by an inside linebacker in one college season is unheard of!

    With that being said, I think Te'o is not much better than average in man coverage, but can be good in zone-coverage as an MLB in the NFL. Fortunately for us, that's what he will be asked to do.

    As for the best cover ILB... I still want to bring up Kiko Alonso. He has great potential.
    Good post,like him too.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    I could be wrong, but wasn't EJ a top MLB prospect, but they played him at OLB as he struggled at MLB initially. Once they move d him back after a few years he really started to gel.
    Ej was in the top two or three MLBs of his draft class. But his stock started to drop right before draft day, there were issues with his speed.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  3. #73
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    Yes, seemed stupid to put E.J. Henderson on the outside when he had questionable speed, but I think it was more because the team at the time had no one to play on the outside so the coaches figured they'd play their best linebacker on the outside. I understand the decision. I'd rather play my best linebacker out of his MLB position and start the 2nd best MLB in his place (who was thought of as a pretty good player at the time) than to start a completely bad player at OLB.

    I don't understand why so many middle linebackers struggle so much when they have to play on the outside in the 4-3. Reminds me of last season in Carolina. The Panthers have two very good middle linebackers in Beason and Kuechly so they decided to start the rookie on the outside. We all know how good Kuechly was when they moved him back to the inside. I think the Panthers linebacker group might be one of NFL's finest when Beason comes back and plays on the outside. I think he can do it. Just needs to stay healthy. (which he obviously has problems with. Hmm.. E.J. Henderson 2.0?)

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    Yes, seemed stupid to put E.J. Henderson on the outside when he had questionable speed, but I think it was more because the team at the time had no one to play on the outside so the coaches figured they'd play their best linebacker on the outside. I understand the decision. I'd rather play my best linebacker out of his MLB position and start the 2nd best MLB in his place (who was thought of as a pretty good player at the time) than to start a completely bad player at OLB.

    I don't understand why so many middle linebackers struggle so much when they have to play on the outside in the 4-3. Reminds me of last season in Carolina. The Panthers have two very good middle linebackers in Beason and Kuechly so they decided to start the rookie on the outside. We all know how good Kuechly was when they moved him back to the inside. I think the Panthers linebacker group might be one of NFL's finest when Beason comes back and plays on the outside. I think he can do it. Just needs to stay healthy. (which he obviously has problems with. Hmm.. E.J. Henderson 2.0?)
    I played a little of each as a young lad and I can tell you that they are quite a bit different. MLB position is more reactive and instinctual whereas the outside linebacker's require more discipline and play in more space giving them more time to react (and more time to screw up). OLB's have more coverage responsibility (often man) and need to work well with the corners.

    The MLB has to be better at working in a more confined space. Quicker to react, able to deal with big bodies draped on him constantly, and of course calling the defensive alignments and coverages.

    Without a doubt, the most fun I've ever had playing football was when I played MLB. Felt like I was in every play.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    Yes, seemed stupid to put E.J. Henderson on the outside when he had questionable speed, but I think it was more because the team at the time had no one to play on the outside so the coaches figured they'd play their best linebacker on the outside. I understand the decision. I'd rather play my best linebacker out of his MLB position and start the 2nd best MLB in his place (who was thought of as a pretty good player at the time) than to start a completely bad player at OLB.

    I don't understand why so many middle linebackers struggle so much when they have to play on the outside in the 4-3. Reminds me of last season in Carolina. The Panthers have two very good middle linebackers in Beason and Kuechly so they decided to start the rookie on the outside. We all know how good Kuechly was when they moved him back to the inside. I think the Panthers linebacker group might be one of NFL's finest when Beason comes back and plays on the outside. I think he can do it. Just needs to stay healthy. (which he obviously has problems with. Hmm.. E.J. Henderson 2.0?)
    Speed matters alot at the MIKE but it really matters on the outside. A decent MLB that can tackle is an advantage usually on the first two downs, even if they are slow. The odds are an Offense will run at least once in the first two downs. An outside LB has to cover more and faster players as a rule which exaserbates the lack of speed a backer has on the outside. Usually there are more routes also which means a different skillset too.

    Brinkley and most of this year's prospects in the middle have a better skillset for a 3-4 IMO.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    Speed matters alot at the MIKE but it really matters on the outside. A decent MLB that can tackle is an advantage usually on the first two downs, even if they are slow. The odds are an Offense will run at least once in the first two downs. An outside LB has to cover more and faster players as a rule which exaserbates the lack of speed a backer has on the outside. Usually there are more routes also which means a different skillset too.

    Brinkley and most of this year's prospects in the middle have a better skillset for a 3-4 IMO.
    Speed matters in the Tampa 2. MLBs for the Tampa 2 cover the middle of the field, much like a traditional cover 3. The confusion it caused in the early 2000s was due to QBs reading what the two safeties were doing, declearing cover 2, and throwing the deep drag, in, shallow post, etc....only to have it picked off by the unseen mlb playing underneath.

    In that instance the able to cover a lot of ground deep and enough speed to come up and lay the lumber on runs is imperative. I like ogletree the best for this job. His range is well known but is just average in tackling when OL get a hand on him. Te'o will also be good. I think his skills are being ignored as he has become a running joke...the kid can ball.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Speed matters in the Tampa 2. MLBs for the Tampa 2 cover the middle of the field, much like a traditional cover 3. The confusion it caused in the early 2000s was due to QBs reading what the two safeties were doing, declearing cover 2, and throwing the deep drag, in, shallow post, etc....only to have it picked off by the unseen mlb playing underneath.
    In that instance the able to cover a lot of ground deep and enough speed to come up and lay the lumber on runs is imperative. I like ogletree the best for this job. His range is well known but is just average in tackling when OL get a hand on him. Te'o will also be good. I think his skills are being ignored as he has become a running joke...the kid can ball.
    The seam route is the primary concern for me in our system. The Mike has to be fluid in the hips to turn and run with the TE on that seam route. The mike has a lot of ground to cover in the middle and Ogletree would be great at that his problem will be in the run game. Teo is the opposite to me, I am not sure he can cover TE and backs, can he be where he needs to be? A big concern if we draft him.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  8. #78
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    Just to make myself clear I didn't mean that I don't understand why a MLB playing OLB in a 4-3 struggles. That's natural when someone plays out of his most familiar position. What I meant is that I don't understand why the dip in performance is that significant. I mean, a great player should still perform at a high level.

    Take Kuechely for example, he's faster than any of this year's top inside linebackers and would have been drafted way higher than any of these guys if he came out this year. He had an amazing college career and his NFL career is already off to an incredibly impressive start. He even played OLB in his freshmen year and still was the the best linebacker on the team. Even so, he was much better when he switched to the inside last season.

    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    Speed matters alot at the MIKE
    Really... NO! Sure I know everything is relevant, but I would really not say that a MLB's speed matters "alot". C'mon! There's a reason why two of this year's top 3 linebackers are out-runned by two 300 + offensive linemen in this year's draft class. Speed is just not very valued in an inside linebacker. Quickness however that's far more prioritized.

    Fun side-fact: Based on 40 times, none of this years top 5 inside linebackers can catch Christian Ponder in a foot race.

  9. #79
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    Vikings will evaluate Manti Te'o

    But they all can outrun one of his throws lol

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    But they all can outrun one of his throws lol
    Nice

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