Thread: Vikings vs Jets Postgame Discussion

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

midgensa wrote:

... but he DID keep us in the game as much as he kept us out of it ... if that makes sense.

I want it to, but as hard as I try, it doesn't. :P

LOL! Gotta remember that one! I don't recall Midgensa using that one in our 19-24 loss to GB or our 15-18 loss to Indy back in 2008. (winks at Marty) :side:

Favre's four turnovers kept us out of the game more than anything. You don't usually win ball games when your QB turns the ball over 4 times.

Now while he did make a game of it for a quarter & a half, I credit the defense, not the offense for keeping us in reach.

Had our defense given up TD's instead of the 5 FG's they did give up to a great offense, the score would have been more like 49-20 & an absolute fucking blowout.

First, let me say, I am trying real hard not to be so "Anti-Noodle" so please take this statement in the context of talking actual game......

I think our problem is mostly related to the current QB and his pre-snap reads.

Mars said something the other night that really got me to thinking........

Mars: Why are our WR's running deep routes when there is an "All Out" blitz coming?

I think the answer has something to do with the cat making the pre-snap adjustments.

Honestly folks. Don't turn that into a "Marrdro - Favre" hate discussion. If you actually go back and look at a couple of the games, it appears we were actually running plays right into the defenses hands.

Although some of that can be put on the coaches, especially if they have the wrong player set in there, I don't think we can point at our coaches for that. Rationale is because you can look at the sets that are in there and the Offense can either Run or Pass out of them.

Only possible/plausible option left is our QB is getting confused at the line.

For me, he is a HOF QB and that isn't supposed to happen. Seriously, I've watched him do it enough so I know he can do it so I am at aloss for what the hell is going wrong with this offense.

singersp wrote:

tastywaves wrote:

Look at the Jets. I would say they have the strongest group of collective talent on both sides of the ball that I have seen in a long time.

The only below average postion I see on this team is with the QB. Sanchez kept us in the game last night. I also don't think Rex is anywhere close to a mastermind game day coach either. How many times did Rex go for broke with a blitz and was given a break only because Favre missed his receiver. He's agressive and he gambles, but when you're the better team, I don't know if I would call it this way. Rex's strength is in building the team, motivating the players and getting them ready to play. Not in how the game is called.

But no way you can say the Vikings have more talent than the Jets as an overall team.

You do realize of course, that just a little over a year ago, most posters here were preaching how lousy that team was & it was Brett Favre & Brett Favre only who made that team what it was? Without him they said, the team was worthless. If only I had a nickel for everytime the Jets 2007 record was brought up.[/quote]

Singer - you do realize that was 2 yers ago and they didn't have the same team they have now (pretty similar to the Vikings). Yes Brett Favre was the reason they started the season 8-3 and he was also the reason they finished 1-4.

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

midgensa wrote:

... but he DID keep us in the game as much as he kept us out of it ... if that makes sense.

I want it to, but as hard as I try, it doesn't. :P

LOL! Gotta remember that one! I don't recall Midgensa using that one in our 19-24 loss to GB or our 15-18 loss to Indy back in 2008. (winks at Marty) :side:

Favre's four turnovers kept us out of the game more than anything. You don't usually win ball games when your QB turns the ball over 4 times.

Now while he did make a game of it for a quarter & a half, I credit the defense, not the offense for keeping us in reach.

Had our defense given up TD's instead of the 5 FG's they did give up to a great offense, the score would have been more like 49-20 & an absolute fucking blowout.

First, let me say, I am trying real hard not to be so "Anti-Noodle" so please take this statement in the context of talking actual game......

I think our problem is mostly related to the current QB and his pre-snap reads.

Mars said something the other night that really got me to thinking........

Mars: Why are our WR's running deep routes when there is an "All Out" blitz coming?

I think the answer has something to do with the cat making the pre-snap adjustments.

Honestly folks. Don't turn that into a "Marrdro - Favre" hate discussion. If you actually go back and look at a couple of the games, it appears we were actually running plays right into the defenses hands.

Although some of that can be put on the coaches, especially if they have the wrong player set in there, I don't think we can point at our coaches for that. Rationale is because you can look at the sets that are in there and the Offense can either Run or Pass out of them.

Only possible/plausible option left is our QB is getting confused at the line.

For me, he is a HOF QB and that isn't supposed to happen. Seriously, I've watched him do it enough so I know he can do it so I am at aloss for what the hell is going wrong with this offense.

Or Childress is refusing to let our QB audible based on what he sees (reads), except on rare occasions.

Every QB we ever started under Childress has been chastised, by Childress for changing a play HE sent in.

It's what Childress has done to every one of our QB's since he was signed on. Favre has been the rare exception, but he was chastised by Childress for audibling on more than one occassion as evidenced by the sideline argument last year.

I'm not sold on the fact that our QB's since 2006 cannot read defenses, as much as I am that they are merely executing the play Childress sends in, regardless of the read & under the coaches order not to audible.

In Favre's case, I have no doubt he can read defenses. It may be that his eyesight is diminishing & he can't see/read the field as quickly or clearly as he once could.

Purple Floyd wrote:

ejmat wrote:

Purple Floyd wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

Brick wrote:

VIKINGS4LIFE333 wrote:

nobody beats us better then us!!

this whole team needs a football IQ test. i bet they would fail. they need to go back to peewee football and learn angles again. M.Williams has the worst angles i have ever seen. they need to learn situational football.

when the jets had the ball and it was 3rd and 15, how many of you were yelling draw at your T.V.?? i know i was. yet our safeties cant see it and run up and make a stop. WTF are they looking at???? READ THE QB's EYES!!!! then you would see him hand the ball off. I could go on all day about how great our team is and how stupid the players are.

There's a reason Leslie Frasier isn't a head coach yet.

Not even sure how our head coach is a head coach... he's never won a championship at ANY level and no head coaching experience prior to being hired.

Getting lots of great free agents is awesome, but they're useless if you can't coach them... as we're plainly seeing.

For what it's worth he has won 2 NFC north Championshipsas our head coach.
As offensive coordinator of the eagles he won NFC East championships and an NFC championship.

I don't see winning those 2 division titles as anything that only Childress could have managed to pull off. IMO we could have put Les Steckel in as coach and gotten that result.

I seriously doubt that.

Look, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else. Especially at the coaching this year. But what they cannot control is execution, turnovers and penalties. Those are directly on the players. The only possible penalty is the first play and the pass to Favre. If that play was designed that way then yes it's the coach. If not, then it's on Moss and Favre.

But let's not take away the fact this team made it to the NFCCG. You don't get that far in the playoffs with bad coaches. Plain and simple. Childress and company did very well last year. It's not to say he didn't screw up at times. Just like EVERY OTHER COACH in the NFL. But it definitely appears they have regressed this year.

Now we will see what Childress and company are made of. They are 1-3 with a lot of conroversy. We will see how they handle this. Right now, not so good. So now is the perfect time to make accurate assessments. For those that know me I like to look at the the bigger picture rather than minimal sample sizes. I liked the fact they have improved every year and as much as people say they never had a KAO, they still finished with the 12 highest ranking offense with the likes of Gus and TJ at QB. That's better than 20 other teams. Last year we saw what the offense could do with a good QB. We still know what it can do but right now we aren't getting the production from the QB. We saw a glimpse of what it could be Monday in the latter part of the game.

All that said, I understand people's frustration with Childress. But at the same time you can't discredit what he has done for this team. He's made his share of mistakes but this is now the time we can comfortably make an accurate decision.

I guess I just don't see it. You say he doesn't control execution, penalties etc but IMHO those are a direct result of the coaching, preparation and the system.I have heard from several players that to be successful everything has to come naturally and when a player has to think too much about what they are doing they are more prone to making mistakes. Add that to the general idea that Childress runs a very complicated scheme and you get the notion that possibly they are either making things too complicated for the guys they are bringing in or that they should be looking a little closer and comprehension than at physical skills when they evaluate talent.


One way or the other this is his team now and his system so whether they have brought in players who cannot understand the system and that is causing mistakes or whether they are not coaching them well enough to become proficient at their jobs either way it can be traced up the chain of command.

Funny how the first few years the problems were blamed on Childress not having the right guys for his system but now all of a sudden with loads of talent that his staff brought in we are still looking at the same problems we had 5 years ago.

I do say he doesn't control execution, penalties and turnovers. Yes a part of it is discipline that could be placed on coaching. However, unless you can prove to me that Childress is out there making those mistakes than I will continue to blame it on the players. I played the game (not professionally of course) but I do understand the intricacies on what is coaching and what is playing. Two different things. Kind of like the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

The only person on the team right now that doesn't udnerstand is Moss. Everyone else knows the system. Moss was just acquired and never played in a WCO scheme before.

I do agree preparation falls on the coaching and I do agree it seems this year the team has not been prepared. Case and point the 2 point conversion. To me it seems like the coaching wasn't prepared to score a TD.

Again, coaches coach and teach. Players play and execute what they are supposed. A coach can be blamed for decisions made during the game, bad play calling and so forth. Players are blamed for not executing (i.e. penalties and turnovers). Unless the penalty or turnover is a direct result of a coaching decision then they are all on the players. There are only a few penalties that can be blamed on coaching. People can continue blaming the coach for everything that goes wrong and they are in fact ultimately responsible but it doesn't mean they are the direct blame.

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

midgensa wrote:

... but he DID keep us in the game as much as he kept us out of it ... if that makes sense.

I want it to, but as hard as I try, it doesn't. :P

LOL! Gotta remember that one! I don't recall Midgensa using that one in our 19-24 loss to GB or our 15-18 loss to Indy back in 2008. (winks at Marty) :side:

Favre's four turnovers kept us out of the game more than anything. You don't usually win ball games when your QB turns the ball over 4 times.

Now while he did make a game of it for a quarter & a half, I credit the defense, not the offense for keeping us in reach.

Had our defense given up TD's instead of the 5 FG's they did give up to a great offense, the score would have been more like 49-20 & an absolute fucking blowout.

First, let me say, I am trying real hard not to be so "Anti-Noodle" so please take this statement in the context of talking actual game......

I think our problem is mostly related to the current QB and his pre-snap reads.

Mars said something the other night that really got me to thinking........

Mars: Why are our WR's running deep routes when there is an "All Out" blitz coming?

I think the answer has something to do with the cat making the pre-snap adjustments.

Honestly folks. Don't turn that into a "Marrdro - Favre" hate discussion. If you actually go back and look at a couple of the games, it appears we were actually running plays right into the defenses hands.

Although some of that can be put on the coaches, especially if they have the wrong player set in there, I don't think we can point at our coaches for that. Rationale is because you can look at the sets that are in there and the Offense can either Run or Pass out of them.

Only possible/plausible option left is our QB is getting confused at the line.

For me, he is a HOF QB and that isn't supposed to happen. Seriously, I've watched him do it enough so I know he can do it so I am at aloss for what the hell is going wrong with this offense.

Or Childress is refusing to let our QB audible based on what he sees (reads), except on rare occasions.

Every QB we ever started under Childress has been chastised, by Childress for changing a play HE sent in.

It's what Childress has done to every one of our QB's since he was signed on. Favre has been the rare exception, but he was chastised by Childress for audibling on more than one occassion as evidenced by the sideline argument last year.

I'm not sold on the fact that our QB's since 2006 cannot read defenses, as much as I am that they are merely executing the play Childress sends in, regardless of the read & under the coaches order not to audible.

In Favre's case, I have no doubt he can read defenses. It may be that his eyesight is diminishing & he can't see/read the field as quickly or clearly as he once could.

Well, although we are not talking about 2006, I think I can address them individually if you want.

2006.....BJ continued to check out of the play when he shouldn't. My feeling for him doing that was because he realized his arm was gone and couldn't make the throws.

2007....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point, but they could have.

2008....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2009....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2010....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

Seriously, they brought the Noodle in cause he knew how to read a defense and check at the line. I for one believe he is one of the best I've ever watched at doing that, especially when it came to carving up a defense on short throws.

Why we aren't seeing much of that (until late in the jets game) is beyond me.

Again, the packages are in there to either run or pass and it still looks like we are playing into the defenses hands. Almost to the point that it looks like we have a defensive player in the huddle.

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

midgensa wrote:

... but he DID keep us in the game as much as he kept us out of it ... if that makes sense.

I want it to, but as hard as I try, it doesn't. :P

LOL! Gotta remember that one! I don't recall Midgensa using that one in our 19-24 loss to GB or our 15-18 loss to Indy back in 2008. (winks at Marty) :side:

Favre's four turnovers kept us out of the game more than anything. You don't usually win ball games when your QB turns the ball over 4 times.

Now while he did make a game of it for a quarter & a half, I credit the defense, not the offense for keeping us in reach.

Had our defense given up TD's instead of the 5 FG's they did give up to a great offense, the score would have been more like 49-20 & an absolute fucking blowout.

First, let me say, I am trying real hard not to be so "Anti-Noodle" so please take this statement in the context of talking actual game......

I think our problem is mostly related to the current QB and his pre-snap reads.

Mars said something the other night that really got me to thinking........

Mars: Why are our WR's running deep routes when there is an "All Out" blitz coming?

I think the answer has something to do with the cat making the pre-snap adjustments.

Honestly folks. Don't turn that into a "Marrdro - Favre" hate discussion. If you actually go back and look at a couple of the games, it appears we were actually running plays right into the defenses hands.

Although some of that can be put on the coaches, especially if they have the wrong player set in there, I don't think we can point at our coaches for that. Rationale is because you can look at the sets that are in there and the Offense can either Run or Pass out of them.

Only possible/plausible option left is our QB is getting confused at the line.

For me, he is a HOF QB and that isn't supposed to happen. Seriously, I've watched him do it enough so I know he can do it so I am at aloss for what the hell is going wrong with this offense.

Or Childress is refusing to let our QB audible based on what he sees (reads), except on rare occasions.

Every QB we ever started under Childress has been chastised, by Childress for changing a play HE sent in.

It's what Childress has done to every one of our QB's since he was signed on. Favre has been the rare exception, but he was chastised by Childress for audibling on more than one occassion as evidenced by the sideline argument last year.

I'm not sold on the fact that our QB's since 2006 cannot read defenses, as much as I am that they are merely executing the play Childress sends in, regardless of the read & under the coaches order not to audible.

In Favre's case, I have no doubt he can read defenses. It may be that his eyesight is diminishing & he can't see/read the field as quickly or clearly as he once could.

Well, although we are not talking about 2006, I think I can address them individually if you want.

2006.....BJ continued to check out of the play when he shouldn't. My feeling for him doing that was because he realized his arm was gone and couldn't make the throws.

2007....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point, but they could have.

2008....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2009....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2010....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

Seriously, they brought the Noodle in cause he knew how to read a defense and check at the line. I for one believe he is one of the best I've ever watched at doing that, especially when it came to carving up a defense on short throws.

Why we aren't seeing much of that (until late in the jets game) is beyond me.

Again, the packages are in there to either run or pass and it still looks like we are playing into the defenses hands. Almost to the point that it looks like we have a defensive player in the huddle.

I guess what is troubling to me in the latter portion of the Jets game is that the Jets were sending 9 men in to rush. I only watched the game (no tape) and maybe I am mis-counting but I'm pretty sure that is what I saw. How is it that Favre (with decent time for the most part I may add) found 1 of the 2 defenders to throw it to rather than 1 of the 4 receivers? Of course it's impossible to prove but if Favre hit Harvin the play before the Vikings win that game. I think the right plays were called but Favre (as much as I hate to say it) screwed the pooch against the Jets.

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

midgensa wrote:

... but he DID keep us in the game as much as he kept us out of it ... if that makes sense.

I want it to, but as hard as I try, it doesn't. :P

LOL! Gotta remember that one! I don't recall Midgensa using that one in our 19-24 loss to GB or our 15-18 loss to Indy back in 2008. (winks at Marty) :side:

Favre's four turnovers kept us out of the game more than anything. You don't usually win ball games when your QB turns the ball over 4 times.

Now while he did make a game of it for a quarter & a half, I credit the defense, not the offense for keeping us in reach.

Had our defense given up TD's instead of the 5 FG's they did give up to a great offense, the score would have been more like 49-20 & an absolute fucking blowout.

First, let me say, I am trying real hard not to be so "Anti-Noodle" so please take this statement in the context of talking actual game......

I think our problem is mostly related to the current QB and his pre-snap reads.

Mars said something the other night that really got me to thinking........

Mars: Why are our WR's running deep routes when there is an "All Out" blitz coming?

I think the answer has something to do with the cat making the pre-snap adjustments.

Honestly folks. Don't turn that into a "Marrdro - Favre" hate discussion. If you actually go back and look at a couple of the games, it appears we were actually running plays right into the defenses hands.

Although some of that can be put on the coaches, especially if they have the wrong player set in there, I don't think we can point at our coaches for that. Rationale is because you can look at the sets that are in there and the Offense can either Run or Pass out of them.

Only possible/plausible option left is our QB is getting confused at the line.

For me, he is a HOF QB and that isn't supposed to happen. Seriously, I've watched him do it enough so I know he can do it so I am at aloss for what the hell is going wrong with this offense.

Or Childress is refusing to let our QB audible based on what he sees (reads), except on rare occasions.

Every QB we ever started under Childress has been chastised, by Childress for changing a play HE sent in.

It's what Childress has done to every one of our QB's since he was signed on. Favre has been the rare exception, but he was chastised by Childress for audibling on more than one occassion as evidenced by the sideline argument last year.

I'm not sold on the fact that our QB's since 2006 cannot read defenses, as much as I am that they are merely executing the play Childress sends in, regardless of the read & under the coaches order not to audible.

In Favre's case, I have no doubt he can read defenses. It may be that his eyesight is diminishing & he can't see/read the field as quickly or clearly as he once could.

Well, although we are not talking about 2006, I think I can address them individually if you want.

2006.....BJ continued to check out of the play when he shouldn't. My feeling for him doing that was because he realized his arm was gone and couldn't make the throws.

2007....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point, but they could have.

2008....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2009....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2010....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

Seriously, they brought the Noodle in cause he knew how to read a defense and check at the line. I for one believe he is one of the best I've ever watched at doing that, especially when it came to carving up a defense on short throws.

Why we aren't seeing much of that (until late in the jets game) is beyond me.

Again, the packages are in there to either run or pass and it still looks like we are playing into the defenses hands. Almost to the point that it looks like we have a defensive player in the huddle.

And you would be wrong!

In 2006 Childress forbid BJ to call audibles after one of his early INT's. There was much talk about it here.

In 2007 I highly doubt Childress allowed a young TJ a lot of room to call audibles & it showed.

In 2008 Frerotte was limited to the audibles he could call. I posted the article no less than 6 times in various threads that year & last. In an interview with Frerotte in late November, he had only called 1 or 3 audibles over 3 months time.

2009 While Favre was given more leway in calling audibles, there was at least heated argument on the sideline, very much publicised, over audibles & what plays were being called.

In 2010, I think there is either more mutual agreement on play calling & Childress has since not tried to over rule anything Favre does or wants.

Is your memory that short?

Hey Marrdro!

Since you were watching so closely, typically how many men did you see "in the box" with the addition of Moss?

ejmat wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

singersp wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

midgensa wrote:

... but he DID keep us in the game as much as he kept us out of it ... if that makes sense.

I want it to, but as hard as I try, it doesn't. :P

LOL! Gotta remember that one! I don't recall Midgensa using that one in our 19-24 loss to GB or our 15-18 loss to Indy back in 2008. (winks at Marty) :side:

Favre's four turnovers kept us out of the game more than anything. You don't usually win ball games when your QB turns the ball over 4 times.

Now while he did make a game of it for a quarter & a half, I credit the defense, not the offense for keeping us in reach.

Had our defense given up TD's instead of the 5 FG's they did give up to a great offense, the score would have been more like 49-20 & an absolute fucking blowout.

First, let me say, I am trying real hard not to be so "Anti-Noodle" so please take this statement in the context of talking actual game......

I think our problem is mostly related to the current QB and his pre-snap reads.

Mars said something the other night that really got me to thinking........

Mars: Why are our WR's running deep routes when there is an "All Out" blitz coming?

I think the answer has something to do with the cat making the pre-snap adjustments.

Honestly folks. Don't turn that into a "Marrdro - Favre" hate discussion. If you actually go back and look at a couple of the games, it appears we were actually running plays right into the defenses hands.

Although some of that can be put on the coaches, especially if they have the wrong player set in there, I don't think we can point at our coaches for that. Rationale is because you can look at the sets that are in there and the Offense can either Run or Pass out of them.

Only possible/plausible option left is our QB is getting confused at the line.

For me, he is a HOF QB and that isn't supposed to happen. Seriously, I've watched him do it enough so I know he can do it so I am at aloss for what the hell is going wrong with this offense.

Or Childress is refusing to let our QB audible based on what he sees (reads), except on rare occasions.

Every QB we ever started under Childress has been chastised, by Childress for changing a play HE sent in.

It's what Childress has done to every one of our QB's since he was signed on. Favre has been the rare exception, but he was chastised by Childress for audibling on more than one occassion as evidenced by the sideline argument last year.

I'm not sold on the fact that our QB's since 2006 cannot read defenses, as much as I am that they are merely executing the play Childress sends in, regardless of the read & under the coaches order not to audible.

In Favre's case, I have no doubt he can read defenses. It may be that his eyesight is diminishing & he can't see/read the field as quickly or clearly as he once could.

Well, although we are not talking about 2006, I think I can address them individually if you want.

2006.....BJ continued to check out of the play when he shouldn't. My feeling for him doing that was because he realized his arm was gone and couldn't make the throws.

2007....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point, but they could have.

2008....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2009....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

2010....I don't think they limited the QB's at this point.

Seriously, they brought the Noodle in cause he knew how to read a defense and check at the line. I for one believe he is one of the best I've ever watched at doing that, especially when it came to carving up a defense on short throws.

Why we aren't seeing much of that (until late in the jets game) is beyond me.

Again, the packages are in there to either run or pass and it still looks like we are playing into the defenses hands. Almost to the point that it looks like we have a defensive player in the huddle.

I guess what is troubling to me in the latter portion of the Jets game is that the Jets were sending 9 men in to rush. I only watched the game (no tape) and maybe I am mis-counting but I'm pretty sure that is what I saw. How is it that Favre (with decent time for the most part I may add) found 1 of the 2 defenders to throw it to rather than 1 of the 4 receivers? Of course it's impossible to prove but if Favre hit Harvin the play before the Vikings win that game. I think the right plays were called but Favre (as much as I hate to say it) screwed the pooch against the Jets.

Whew, I've been hinting (In my best Marrdro not picking on the Noodle way) about that very issue all morning.

Thought I was loosing my mind that no one wanted to get into this discussion with me.

In the end, you saw what we all saw and I think it is the same thing we've been seeing all year.

Something is drastically wrong. My only guess is centered around the possibility that he is getting confused at the line, which I can't believe by the way or......Big OR......his arm is hurting and he is making his line calls based on what he thinks his arm can do.

If the later is the case, then I am very scared.

singersp wrote:

Hey Marrdro!

Since you were watching so closely, typically how many men did you see "in the box" with the addition of Moss?

Honestly Steve, I can't answer that cause I didn't chart the game, but I saw several times were the D was mugging the line and a extra S was in the TV camera angle.

Hard to see what was going on, but it looked like a Cloud coverage (Cover 3) with the S helping out over the top on Moss when he was in there.

When PH ran his routes, one of the LB's mugging, usually on the opposite side PH line up on, would drop back in coverage about the time PH got to that zone. That gave them a CB trailing with a LB stepping into the intended route.

When Moss wasn't in there, I saw alot of single coverage on PH and Lewis with both S's in view of the camera angle.

Again, didn't chart it so I can't tell you specific numbers.