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  1. #101
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "davike" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE ..... we can't block anyone for longer than 2 seconds, therefore we can not even get the ball into our wrs hands.
    we can't complain about the play of wrs and qbs when they are not even getting a chance to show what they can do cuz the qb has to throw the ball 2 seconds early or take a sack.
    was it me or was there a problem up and down the whole line this week and not just on the right side?


    if we don't get this fixed we are never gonna know how tavaris is or any of these young wrs.
    2 seconds?
    Watch the game again. On some of those sacks Holcomb had 5-7 seconds. Apparently Holcomb didn't have a grasp of our offense. He totally missed the part about 3-step drops and getting rid of the ball.

    This whole OL hate thing is just an excuse for our QB play. Holcomb showed no poise in the pocket. He was too scared to step up and delver throws. The only thing Holcomb did well was not throw a pick.

    Moreover, if as a coach you recognize you are having trouble pass blocking, you have to do something about, you can't just do the same thing all game and expect it to work. We have seen Childress do this before.

    When we get Taylor and TJ back, we'll improve a bit. Taylor will help us depend on the run a bit more, and TJ will at least be able to scramble a little instead of standing in the pocket waiting to get sacked.
    I would say you are right on the money V.
    The offensive line bandwagon is getting old.
    Sure, they have room for improvement in pass protection and every facet of the game...as does the rest of the team.
    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    Da boys gave him some help.
    Chiefs D gets some credit too.

    I actually think that Holcomb is the best QB on the team at this moment.
    That alone is a scary thought.

    I agree pretty much, but our offensive line could really use to pass protection help. Yeah sometimes he had 5-7 seconds, but other times he had about 2 seconds. They seem to vary from play to play.


    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    > How dare you!!! lol.


    I think we are doing great on run blocking, we just need a little more consistency on our pass blocking. Did anyone notice that we seem to running off our right side with some success?
    okay so on every pass down he didn't have only 2 seconds, but for the majority of the game the pass protection was bad, as it was in the lions game, the only difference was tjack got rid of the ball quicker which lead to picks.


    it's not a bandwagon, it's what all teams are based on.
    it all starts up front.
    and you can be a good run blocking team and still suck at pass protection.
    getting richardson and taylor back should help, but overall it has to improve cuz the line is the only thing that has stayed the same over the last 2 seasons and i find it quite a coincidence that 3 different starting qbs have the same problems, numbers, and production when starting.


    we missed 2 oppurtunities to score last week so that's our bad.
    but watch tom brady and the time and pocket he has when he's throwing perfect darts to randy moss.
    look at the production of bulger, trent green , dree brees this year cuz they are playing behind bad lines right now.
    are we to say that they are bad or unproven qbs.
    no.
    but you are only as good as the guys who are blocking for you.
    so if we dont solve this problem we are going to continue to score 10 points a game.
    not a bandwagon or an excuse.
    fact.......
    sigh

    1. If you want to nitpick, then fine, the OL could be better. I prefer to think Holcomb was slow as hell back in the pocket, which he was. If Holconb beeds 5 seconds every play to get a pass off, no OL is capable of acheiving that.
    2. I'll agree that the pass protection was bad vs. the Lions, but as I said in my TJ Int breakdown, we shouldn't have been passing that much in the first place. In fact I'll venture to say that will we lose the majority of games in which our QB has more than 30 pass attempts.
    3. A comparison to Tom Brady. Brady's best trait is his poise in the pocket. Even if you do blitz him he his calm and gets the throw off. TJ, Holcomb, and BJ have nowhere near as poised. They get flustered, spooked, and scared the second they see blitz. Half of the time all Holcomb had to do was step up in the pocket, which is exactly what Childress said as well. Holcomb was too spooked to do that.
    4. A team is less likely to blitz if the have to stop Maroney, double team Moss, etc. We don't have the weapons. That is our offense's main problem, not the OL.
    5. Those three different QBs aren't having the same problems because of the OL. They are having the same problems because they all suck.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  2. #102
    bigbadragz's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "davike" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=bigbadragz link=topic=38171.msg643783#msg643783 date=1190702674]
    THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE ..... we can't block anyone for longer than 2 seconds, therefore we can not even get the ball into our wrs hands.
    we can't complain about the play of wrs and qbs when they are not even getting a chance to show what they can do cuz the qb has to throw the ball 2 seconds early or take a sack.
    was it me or was there a problem up and down the whole line this week and not just on the right side?


    if we don't get this fixed we are never gonna know how tavaris is or any of these young wrs.
    2 seconds?
    Watch the game again. On some of those sacks Holcomb had 5-7 seconds. Apparently Holcomb didn't have a grasp of our offense. He totally missed the part about 3-step drops and getting rid of the ball.

    This whole OL hate thing is just an excuse for our QB play. Holcomb showed no poise in the pocket. He was too scared to step up and delver throws. The only thing Holcomb did well was not throw a pick.

    Moreover, if as a coach you recognize you are having trouble pass blocking, you have to do something about, you can't just do the same thing all game and expect it to work. We have seen Childress do this before.

    When we get Taylor and TJ back, we'll improve a bit. Taylor will help us depend on the run a bit more, and TJ will at least be able to scramble a little instead of standing in the pocket waiting to get sacked.
    I would say you are right on the money V.
    The offensive line bandwagon is getting old.
    Sure, they have room for improvement in pass protection and every facet of the game...as does the rest of the team.
    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    Da boys gave him some help.
    Chiefs D gets some credit too.

    I actually think that Holcomb is the best QB on the team at this moment.
    That alone is a scary thought.

    I agree pretty much, but our offensive line could really use to pass protection help. Yeah sometimes he had 5-7 seconds, but other times he had about 2 seconds. They seem to vary from play to play.


    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    > How dare you!!! lol.


    I think we are doing great on run blocking, we just need a little more consistency on our pass blocking. Did anyone notice that we seem to running off our right side with some success?
    okay so on every pass down he didn't have only 2 seconds, but for the majority of the game the pass protection was bad, as it was in the lions game, the only difference was tjack got rid of the ball quicker which lead to picks.


    it's not a bandwagon, it's what all teams are based on.
    it all starts up front.
    and you can be a good run blocking team and still suck at pass protection.
    getting richardson and taylor back should help, but overall it has to improve cuz the line is the only thing that has stayed the same over the last 2 seasons and i find it quite a coincidence that 3 different starting qbs have the same problems, numbers, and production when starting.


    we missed 2 oppurtunities to score last week so that's our bad.
    but watch tom brady and the time and pocket he has when he's throwing perfect darts to randy moss.
    look at the production of bulger, trent green , dree brees this year cuz they are playing behind bad lines right now.
    are we to say that they are bad or unproven qbs.
    no.
    but you are only as good as the guys who are blocking for you.
    so if we dont solve this problem we are going to continue to score 10 points a game.
    not a bandwagon or an excuse.
    fact.......
    sigh

    1. If you want to nitpick, then fine, the OL could be better. I prefer to think Holcomb was slow as hell back in the pocket, which he was. If Holconb beeds 5 seconds every play to get a pass off, no OL is capable of acheiving that.
    2. I'll agree that the pass protection was bad vs. the Lions, but as I said in my TJ Int breakdown, we shouldn't have been passing that much in the first place. In fact I'll venture to say that will we lose the majority of games in which our QB has more than 30 pass attempts.
    3. A comparison to Tom Brady. Brady's best trait is his poise in the pocket. Even if you do blitz him he his calm and gets the throw off. TJ, Holcomb, and BJ have nowhere near as poised. They get flustered, spooked, and scared the second they see blitz. Half of the time all Holcomb had to do was step up in the pocket, which is exactly what Childress said as well. Holcomb was too spooked to do that.
    4. A team is less likely to blitz if the have to stop Maroney, double team Moss, etc. We don't have the weapons. That is our offense's main problem, not the OL.
    5. Those three different QBs aren't having the same problems because of the OL. They are having the same problems because they all suck.
    [/quote]
    you had some okay points until the end there.
    all those qbs now suck, okay, if you say so.
    and tom brady can afford to be poised cuz he's had a good line for most of his career.
    before maroney, moss, and others they had friggin david givins and kevin faulk in those same positions and were still an effective offense.
    now they are loaded and just ligting it up more.
    but the constant through all of their success has been a good front.


    detroit was begging us to throw on them cuz they had so many guys in the box, but if you can't pick up a blitz whenever it's coming you are not always gonna be able to burn it.
    you have to take what the defense is giving you sometimes so the decision to throw didn't bother me, but the lack of protecting and letting wrs get open did.


    another thing, tavaris has not come off to me at all as not being poised in the pocket, as a matter of fact i thought he did a great job of staying poised in the detroit game with the amount pressure was on him.
    his problem was when he got outta the pocket he was throwing jump passes that ended up very inaccurate.


    listen, you can say what you want about the skill positions on our team, but the enduring problem has been the line.
    the whole line wasn't good last week but mckinney got lit up by jarred allen, and he's suppose to be one of our strong pass blockers.
    my point is you can bring in any wrs and qb you want, but if they get the same protection the same problems will persist.
    was holcomb good? far from it. but none of our qbs have been over the last 2 years and as i said the one constant has been the line, and it's subpar play.


    and that's not an excuse in any way.
    it's fact.
    LET THAT WHICH DOES NOT MATTER, TRULY SLIDE

  3. #103
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    OL could be better...but our WRs need to get open quicker by running more precise routes...then our QB needs to get them the ball in the right spots.
    Finally, the TEs need to make sure that they are open when the primary routes get covered...and the RBs need to make sure that they do their part, whether it be chip blocking or releasing in the flat for a check-off throw.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  4. #104
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    The heck with it.
    We need to kidnap the patriots Offense and make them all play for us.

    Caine

  5. #105
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    OL could be better...but our WRs need to get open quicker by running more precise routes...then our QB needs to get them the ball in the right spots.
    Finally, the TEs need to make sure that they are open when the primary routes get covered...and the RBs need to make sure that they do their part, whether it be chip blocking or releasing in the flat for a check-off throw.
    Define "more precise"?
    They are running the route that the play calls for.

  6. #106
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    [size=13pt]Sid Hartman: Offensive line is big key to improvement of Vikings[/size]

    The Vikings have been known for having strong blockers over the years, but this group needs to get better if the team is going to succeed.

    By Sid Hartman, Star Tribune

    Last update: September 26, 2007 – 10:53 PM



    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #107
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "davike" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=38171.msg643860#msg643860 date=1190727272]
    [quote author=bigbadragz link=topic=38171.msg643783#msg643783 date=1190702674]
    THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE ..... we can't block anyone for longer than 2 seconds, therefore we can not even get the ball into our wrs hands.
    we can't complain about the play of wrs and qbs when they are not even getting a chance to show what they can do cuz the qb has to throw the ball 2 seconds early or take a sack.
    was it me or was there a problem up and down the whole line this week and not just on the right side?


    if we don't get this fixed we are never gonna know how tavaris is or any of these young wrs.
    2 seconds?
    Watch the game again. On some of those sacks Holcomb had 5-7 seconds. Apparently Holcomb didn't have a grasp of our offense. He totally missed the part about 3-step drops and getting rid of the ball.

    This whole OL hate thing is just an excuse for our QB play. Holcomb showed no poise in the pocket. He was too scared to step up and delver throws. The only thing Holcomb did well was not throw a pick.

    Moreover, if as a coach you recognize you are having trouble pass blocking, you have to do something about, you can't just do the same thing all game and expect it to work. We have seen Childress do this before.

    When we get Taylor and TJ back, we'll improve a bit. Taylor will help us depend on the run a bit more, and TJ will at least be able to scramble a little instead of standing in the pocket waiting to get sacked.
    I would say you are right on the money V.
    The offensive line bandwagon is getting old.
    Sure, they have room for improvement in pass protection and every facet of the game...as does the rest of the team.
    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    Da boys gave him some help.
    Chiefs D gets some credit too.

    I actually think that Holcomb is the best QB on the team at this moment.
    That alone is a scary thought.

    I agree pretty much, but our offensive line could really use to pass protection help. Yeah sometimes he had 5-7 seconds, but other times he had about 2 seconds. They seem to vary from play to play.


    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    > How dare you!!! lol.


    I think we are doing great on run blocking, we just need a little more consistency on our pass blocking. Did anyone notice that we seem to running off our right side with some success?
    okay so on every pass down he didn't have only 2 seconds, but for the majority of the game the pass protection was bad, as it was in the lions game, the only difference was tjack got rid of the ball quicker which lead to picks.


    it's not a bandwagon, it's what all teams are based on.
    it all starts up front.
    and you can be a good run blocking team and still suck at pass protection.
    getting richardson and taylor back should help, but overall it has to improve cuz the line is the only thing that has stayed the same over the last 2 seasons and i find it quite a coincidence that 3 different starting qbs have the same problems, numbers, and production when starting.


    we missed 2 oppurtunities to score last week so that's our bad.
    but watch tom brady and the time and pocket he has when he's throwing perfect darts to randy moss.
    look at the production of bulger, trent green , dree brees this year cuz they are playing behind bad lines right now.
    are we to say that they are bad or unproven qbs.
    no.
    but you are only as good as the guys who are blocking for you.
    so if we dont solve this problem we are going to continue to score 10 points a game.
    not a bandwagon or an excuse.
    fact.......
    sigh

    1. If you want to nitpick, then fine, the OL could be better. I prefer to think Holcomb was slow as hell back in the pocket, which he was. If Holconb beeds 5 seconds every play to get a pass off, no OL is capable of acheiving that.
    2. I'll agree that the pass protection was bad vs. the Lions, but as I said in my TJ Int breakdown, we shouldn't have been passing that much in the first place. In fact I'll venture to say that will we lose the majority of games in which our QB has more than 30 pass attempts.
    3. A comparison to Tom Brady. Brady's best trait is his poise in the pocket. Even if you do blitz him he his calm and gets the throw off. TJ, Holcomb, and BJ have nowhere near as poised. They get flustered, spooked, and scared the second they see blitz. Half of the time all Holcomb had to do was step up in the pocket, which is exactly what Childress said as well. Holcomb was too spooked to do that.
    4. A team is less likely to blitz if the have to stop Maroney, double team Moss, etc. We don't have the weapons. That is our offense's main problem, not the OL.
    5. Those three different QBs aren't having the same problems because of the OL. They are having the same problems because they all suck.
    [/quote]
    you had some okay points until the end there.
    all those qbs now suck, okay, if you say so.
    and tom brady can afford to be poised cuz he's had a good line for most of his career.
    before maroney, moss, and others they had friggin david givins and kevin faulk in those same positions and were still an effective offense.
    now they are loaded and just ligting it up more.
    but the constant through all of their success has been a good front.


    detroit was begging us to throw on them cuz they had so many guys in the box, but if you can't pick up a blitz whenever it's coming you are not always gonna be able to burn it.
    you have to take what the defense is giving you sometimes so the decision to throw didn't bother me, but the lack of protecting and letting wrs get open did.


    another thing, tavaris has not come off to me at all as not being poised in the pocket, as a matter of fact i thought he did a great job of staying poised in the detroit game with the amount pressure was on him.
    his problem was when he got outta the pocket he was throwing jump passes that ended up very inaccurate.


    listen, you can say what you want about the skill positions on our team, but the enduring problem has been the line.
    the whole line wasn't good last week but mckinney got lit up by jarred allen, and he's suppose to be one of our strong pass blockers.
    my point is you can bring in any wrs and qb you want, but if they get the same protection the same problems will persist.
    was holcomb good? far from it. but none of our qbs have been over the last 2 years and as i said the one constant has been the line, and it's subpar play.


    and that's not an excuse in any way.
    it's fact.
    [/quote]

    You don't consider Corey Dillon a weapon? You don't consider Deion Branch a weapon?

    There are two ways to beat the blitz. Pick it up with your blocking or have the QB beat them with a quick pass. If you have success picking up the blitz, the defense will be put on its heels. If you have the QB continually beat them with quick passing, the defense will be on its heels. I have already said that the OL has room for improvement, but is not the main problem. Why you choose to only focus on OL, and not the QB, doesn't make sense to me, especially when we run an offense that calls for quick passing.

    Poise means level headedness and making good decisions under pressure. Yes there wa pressure on TJ. He certainly didn't make good decisions. How is deciding to "throw a jump pass" a good decision? Holcomb didn't make good decisions either. He made no decision and took the sacks.

    The enduring problem has been the whole damn offense. We could have an all pro bowl line, Receivers will be blanketed, TJ still will throw picks. The line has been the best part of a bad offense, and that will be even more true when they eliminate penalties.

    It's a team sport. I agree that McKinney got lit up. Holcomb needs to adjust to that. He needs to say, "There's pressure coming off the edge on my blindside. I need to get rid of the ball quicker, or step up on the pocket to buy more time."

    Any QB or Any WR? Ok, I know you are exaggerrating so I won't take that literally. In Houston last year everyone was saying the OL sucked, and they did. Bring in a new QB in Schaub...who is complaining about their OL this year? Who is calling their passing game inept? NO ONE.

    The Chiefs sacked us ONE more time than they sacked the Texans in week 1. Schaub went 16/22 with 225 yards, 1 TD, 1 int. Johnson had 7 catches for 142 yards.

    It's not the line. We lack weapons, and we have lacked them for the last 4 years.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  8. #108
    mountainviking's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    So, first of all, It Is A TEAM Game!
    It takes 11 guys working together to have a potent offense.
    Actually, it takes more than that...it also takes coaches who can make in-game, on-time adjustments!


    It seems to me that our WR routes are uninspiring...when you see blitz coming all game long, you need to have a quick release, underneath route to go to.
    Daunte would audible if he saw Moss was going to go downfield one on one...I'm not seeing the routes we need to beat the blitz.
    How about a button hook?
    Where's the slants??
    Are all our WRs afraid to go across the middle???
    How about a deep cross?
    There are holes in everyone's zones, we need our routes to fake one way and then find the hole.

    Looking back at Duh'Knee's offense, he took QBs who struggled elsewhere and turned them into offensive machines behind our pro-bowl OLINE and great WRs.
    I think it ALL starts up front.
    Great blocking makes great RBs, QBs, and WRs!!

    HOU line is improving under the tutelage of one of the zone-blocking masters in their second year in the system.
    Kubiak picked players to fit his idea of OLINE...but the real surprise there is Defense anyway.

    We've got a ton of money invested in some big boys up front.
    They should be able to dominate most DLines, but have yet to rise to the occasion.
    Perhaps, they will eventually learn Chilly's scheme, which is as I recall, a mixture of zone and man blocking.
    Seems to me they go Man to Man on Run plays, but try to get tricky in pass protection, and its not working against all the crazy blitz pressure the enemy is bringing.
    Maybe its time to simplify our blocking schemes...?
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  9. #109
    bigbadragz's Avatar
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "davike" wrote:
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=38171.msg643882#msg643882 date=1190729822]
    [quote author=V link=topic=38171.msg643860#msg643860 date=1190727272]
    [quote author=bigbadragz link=topic=38171.msg643783#msg643783 date=1190702674]
    THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE ..... we can't block anyone for longer than 2 seconds, therefore we can not even get the ball into our wrs hands.
    we can't complain about the play of wrs and qbs when they are not even getting a chance to show what they can do cuz the qb has to throw the ball 2 seconds early or take a sack.
    was it me or was there a problem up and down the whole line this week and not just on the right side?


    if we don't get this fixed we are never gonna know how tavaris is or any of these young wrs.
    2 seconds?
    Watch the game again. On some of those sacks Holcomb had 5-7 seconds. Apparently Holcomb didn't have a grasp of our offense. He totally missed the part about 3-step drops and getting rid of the ball.

    This whole OL hate thing is just an excuse for our QB play. Holcomb showed no poise in the pocket. He was too scared to step up and delver throws. The only thing Holcomb did well was not throw a pick.

    Moreover, if as a coach you recognize you are having trouble pass blocking, you have to do something about, you can't just do the same thing all game and expect it to work. We have seen Childress do this before.

    When we get Taylor and TJ back, we'll improve a bit. Taylor will help us depend on the run a bit more, and TJ will at least be able to scramble a little instead of standing in the pocket waiting to get sacked.
    I would say you are right on the money V.
    The offensive line bandwagon is getting old.
    Sure, they have room for improvement in pass protection and every facet of the game...as does the rest of the team.
    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    Da boys gave him some help.
    Chiefs D gets some credit too.

    I actually think that Holcomb is the best QB on the team at this moment.
    That alone is a scary thought.

    I agree pretty much, but our offensive line could really use to pass protection help. Yeah sometimes he had 5-7 seconds, but other times he had about 2 seconds. They seem to vary from play to play.


    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    > How dare you!!! lol.


    I think we are doing great on run blocking, we just need a little more consistency on our pass blocking. Did anyone notice that we seem to running off our right side with some success?
    okay so on every pass down he didn't have only 2 seconds, but for the majority of the game the pass protection was bad, as it was in the lions game, the only difference was tjack got rid of the ball quicker which lead to picks.


    it's not a bandwagon, it's what all teams are based on.
    it all starts up front.
    and you can be a good run blocking team and still suck at pass protection.
    getting richardson and taylor back should help, but overall it has to improve cuz the line is the only thing that has stayed the same over the last 2 seasons and i find it quite a coincidence that 3 different starting qbs have the same problems, numbers, and production when starting.


    we missed 2 oppurtunities to score last week so that's our bad.
    but watch tom brady and the time and pocket he has when he's throwing perfect darts to randy moss.
    look at the production of bulger, trent green , dree brees this year cuz they are playing behind bad lines right now.
    are we to say that they are bad or unproven qbs.
    no.
    but you are only as good as the guys who are blocking for you.
    so if we dont solve this problem we are going to continue to score 10 points a game.
    not a bandwagon or an excuse.
    fact.......
    sigh

    1. If you want to nitpick, then fine, the OL could be better. I prefer to think Holcomb was slow as hell back in the pocket, which he was. If Holconb beeds 5 seconds every play to get a pass off, no OL is capable of acheiving that.
    2. I'll agree that the pass protection was bad vs. the Lions, but as I said in my TJ Int breakdown, we shouldn't have been passing that much in the first place. In fact I'll venture to say that will we lose the majority of games in which our QB has more than 30 pass attempts.
    3. A comparison to Tom Brady. Brady's best trait is his poise in the pocket. Even if you do blitz him he his calm and gets the throw off. TJ, Holcomb, and BJ have nowhere near as poised. They get flustered, spooked, and scared the second they see blitz. Half of the time all Holcomb had to do was step up in the pocket, which is exactly what Childress said as well. Holcomb was too spooked to do that.
    4. A team is less likely to blitz if the have to stop Maroney, double team Moss, etc. We don't have the weapons. That is our offense's main problem, not the OL.
    5. Those three different QBs aren't having the same problems because of the OL. They are having the same problems because they all suck.
    [/quote]
    you had some okay points until the end there.
    all those qbs now suck, okay, if you say so.
    and tom brady can afford to be poised cuz he's had a good line for most of his career.
    before maroney, moss, and others they had friggin david givins and kevin faulk in those same positions and were still an effective offense.
    now they are loaded and just ligting it up more.
    but the constant through all of their success has been a good front.


    detroit was begging us to throw on them cuz they had so many guys in the box, but if you can't pick up a blitz whenever it's coming you are not always gonna be able to burn it.
    you have to take what the defense is giving you sometimes so the decision to throw didn't bother me, but the lack of protecting and letting wrs get open did.


    another thing, tavaris has not come off to me at all as not being poised in the pocket, as a matter of fact i thought he did a great job of staying poised in the detroit game with the amount pressure was on him.
    his problem was when he got outta the pocket he was throwing jump passes that ended up very inaccurate.


    listen, you can say what you want about the skill positions on our team, but the enduring problem has been the line.
    the whole line wasn't good last week but mckinney got lit up by jarred allen, and he's suppose to be one of our strong pass blockers.
    my point is you can bring in any wrs and qb you want, but if they get the same protection the same problems will persist.
    was holcomb good? far from it. but none of our qbs have been over the last 2 years and as i said the one constant has been the line, and it's subpar play.


    and that's not an excuse in any way.
    it's fact.
    [/quote]

    You don't consider Corey Dillon a weapon? You don't consider Deion Branch a weapon?

    There are two ways to beat the blitz. Pick it up with your blocking or have the QB beat them with a quick pass. If you have success picking up the blitz, the defense will be put on its heels. If you have the QB continually beat them with quick passing, the defense will be on its heels. I have already said that the OL has room for improvement, but is not the main problem. Why you choose to only focus on OL, and not the QB, doesn't make sense to me, especially when we run an offense that calls for quick passing.

    Poise means level headedness and making good decisions under pressure. Yes there wa pressure on TJ. He certainly didn't make good decisions. How is deciding to "throw a jump pass" a good decision? Holcomb didn't make good decisions either. He made no decision and took the sacks.

    The enduring problem has been the whole gol 'darnit offense. We could have an all pro bowl line, Receivers will be blanketed, TJ still will throw picks. The line has been the best part of a bad offense, and that will be even more true when they eliminate penalties.

    It's a team sport. I agree that McKinney got lit up. Holcomb needs to adjust to that. He needs to say, "There's pressure coming off the edge on my blindside. I need to get rid of the ball quicker, or step up on the pocket to buy more time."

    Any QB or Any WR? Ok, I know you are exaggerrating so I won't take that literally. In Houston last year everyone was saying the OL sucked, and they did. Bring in a new QB in Schaub...who is complaining about their OL this year? Who is calling their passing game inept? NO ONE.

    The Chiefs sacked us ONE more time than they sacked the Texans in week 1. Schaub went 16/22 with 225 yards, 1 TD, 1 int. Johnson had 7 catches for 142 yards.

    It's not the line. We lack weapons, and we have lacked them for the last 4 years.
    [/quote]
    cuz as i've said a million times, everything starts up front.
    wr's can only catch passes and make plays if the time is provided for them to get outta breaks.
    tjack or holcomb or brad johnson can only get passes off to open guys if they are provided the time to do so.
    so if you ask me what i've seen over the last 2 years that keeps on happening, is a breakdown at the line of scrimmage.
    i see us taking sacks or having to force passes.
    i haven't seen wrs being shown constantly blaketed, or qbs constantly missing open wrs.
    but i do keep on seeing guys blow by offensive lineman, or linebackers coming unblocked at the qb.


    and V i dont know how old you are but if i recall correctly dillon was there for i think one of the 3 super bowls, as i think deon branch was.
    so unless you consider antoine smith, david givins, david patten, and troy brown big time superstars you are incorrect once again.
    it's funny how they were still able to execute with those amazing weapons.
    but i'm sure you'll just say it was all brady and not the product of a good offensive line.
    and i suppose kurt warner was johnny unitas and did not benefit by playing behind a great st louis offensive line but now has lost 3 different starting jobs.

    in the end, how can we honestly judge any of the skill position players if we dont play well up front.
    actually if you wanna go back to culpepper, our line was playing poorly, and he went from 39 and like 9, to 3 and 12 and most of the pro bowl season was without moss.
    LET THAT WHICH DOES NOT MATTER, TRULY SLIDE

  10. #110
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    Re: THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE LINE

    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    [quote author=davike link=topic=38171.msg643891#msg643891 date=1190730435]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=38171.msg643882#msg643882 date=1190729822]
    [quote author=V link=topic=38171.msg643860#msg643860 date=1190727272]
    [quote author=bigbadragz link=topic=38171.msg643783#msg643783 date=1190702674]
    THE VIKINGS SUCK BECAUSE ..... we can't block anyone for longer than 2 seconds, therefore we can not even get the ball into our wrs hands.
    we can't complain about the play of wrs and qbs when they are not even getting a chance to show what they can do cuz the qb has to throw the ball 2 seconds early or take a sack.
    was it me or was there a problem up and down the whole line this week and not just on the right side?


    if we don't get this fixed we are never gonna know how tavaris is or any of these young wrs.
    2 seconds?
    Watch the game again. On some of those sacks Holcomb had 5-7 seconds. Apparently Holcomb didn't have a grasp of our offense. He totally missed the part about 3-step drops and getting rid of the ball.

    This whole OL hate thing is just an excuse for our QB play. Holcomb showed no poise in the pocket. He was too scared to step up and delver throws. The only thing Holcomb did well was not throw a pick.

    Moreover, if as a coach you recognize you are having trouble pass blocking, you have to do something about, you can't just do the same thing all game and expect it to work. We have seen Childress do this before.

    When we get Taylor and TJ back, we'll improve a bit. Taylor will help us depend on the run a bit more, and TJ will at least be able to scramble a little instead of standing in the pocket waiting to get sacked.
    I would say you are right on the money V.
    The offensive line bandwagon is getting old.
    Sure, they have room for improvement in pass protection and every facet of the game...as does the rest of the team.
    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    Da boys gave him some help.
    Chiefs D gets some credit too.

    I actually think that Holcomb is the best QB on the team at this moment.
    That alone is a scary thought.

    I agree pretty much, but our offensive line could really use to pass protection help. Yeah sometimes he had 5-7 seconds, but other times he had about 2 seconds. They seem to vary from play to play.


    AP didn't get >100 yds on the ground with 24 carries only because he is purple jesus.
    > How dare you!!! lol.


    I think we are doing great on run blocking, we just need a little more consistency on our pass blocking. Did anyone notice that we seem to running off our right side with some success?
    okay so on every pass down he didn't have only 2 seconds, but for the majority of the game the pass protection was bad, as it was in the lions game, the only difference was tjack got rid of the ball quicker which lead to picks.


    it's not a bandwagon, it's what all teams are based on.
    it all starts up front.
    and you can be a good run blocking team and still suck at pass protection.
    getting richardson and taylor back should help, but overall it has to improve cuz the line is the only thing that has stayed the same over the last 2 seasons and i find it quite a coincidence that 3 different starting qbs have the same problems, numbers, and production when starting.


    we missed 2 oppurtunities to score last week so that's our bad.
    but watch tom brady and the time and pocket he has when he's throwing perfect darts to randy moss.
    look at the production of bulger, trent green , dree brees this year cuz they are playing behind bad lines right now.
    are we to say that they are bad or unproven qbs.
    no.
    but you are only as good as the guys who are blocking for you.
    so if we dont solve this problem we are going to continue to score 10 points a game.
    not a bandwagon or an excuse.
    fact.......
    sigh

    1. If you want to nitpick, then fine, the OL could be better. I prefer to think Holcomb was slow as hell back in the pocket, which he was. If Holconb beeds 5 seconds every play to get a pass off, no OL is capable of acheiving that.
    2. I'll agree that the pass protection was bad vs. the Lions, but as I said in my TJ Int breakdown, we shouldn't have been passing that much in the first place. In fact I'll venture to say that will we lose the majority of games in which our QB has more than 30 pass attempts.
    3. A comparison to Tom Brady. Brady's best trait is his poise in the pocket. Even if you do blitz him he his calm and gets the throw off. TJ, Holcomb, and BJ have nowhere near as poised. They get flustered, spooked, and scared the second they see blitz. Half of the time all Holcomb had to do was step up in the pocket, which is exactly what Childress said as well. Holcomb was too spooked to do that.
    4. A team is less likely to blitz if the have to stop Maroney, double team Moss, etc. We don't have the weapons. That is our offense's main problem, not the OL.
    5. Those three different QBs aren't having the same problems because of the OL. They are having the same problems because they all suck.
    [/quote]
    you had some okay points until the end there.
    all those qbs now suck, okay, if you say so.
    and tom brady can afford to be poised cuz he's had a good line for most of his career.
    before maroney, moss, and others they had friggin david givins and kevin faulk in those same positions and were still an effective offense.
    now they are loaded and just ligting it up more.
    but the constant through all of their success has been a good front.


    detroit was begging us to throw on them cuz they had so many guys in the box, but if you can't pick up a blitz whenever it's coming you are not always gonna be able to burn it.
    you have to take what the defense is giving you sometimes so the decision to throw didn't bother me, but the lack of protecting and letting wrs get open did.


    another thing, tavaris has not come off to me at all as not being poised in the pocket, as a matter of fact i thought he did a great job of staying poised in the detroit game with the amount pressure was on him.
    his problem was when he got outta the pocket he was throwing jump passes that ended up very inaccurate.


    listen, you can say what you want about the skill positions on our team, but the enduring problem has been the line.
    the whole line wasn't good last week but mckinney got lit up by jarred allen, and he's suppose to be one of our strong pass blockers.
    my point is you can bring in any wrs and qb you want, but if they get the same protection the same problems will persist.
    was holcomb good? far from it. but none of our qbs have been over the last 2 years and as i said the one constant has been the line, and it's subpar play.


    and that's not an excuse in any way.
    it's fact.
    [/quote]

    You don't consider Corey Dillon a weapon? You don't consider Deion Branch a weapon?

    There are two ways to beat the blitz. Pick it up with your blocking or have the QB beat them with a quick pass. If you have success picking up the blitz, the defense will be put on its heels. If you have the QB continually beat them with quick passing, the defense will be on its heels. I have already said that the OL has room for improvement, but is not the main problem. Why you choose to only focus on OL, and not the QB, doesn't make sense to me, especially when we run an offense that calls for quick passing.

    Poise means level headedness and making good decisions under pressure. Yes there wa pressure on TJ. He certainly didn't make good decisions. How is deciding to "throw a jump pass" a good decision? Holcomb didn't make good decisions either. He made no decision and took the sacks.

    The enduring problem has been the whole gol 'darnit offense. We could have an all pro bowl line, Receivers will be blanketed, TJ still will throw picks. The line has been the best part of a bad offense, and that will be even more true when they eliminate penalties.

    It's a team sport. I agree that McKinney got lit up. Holcomb needs to adjust to that. He needs to say, "There's pressure coming off the edge on my blindside. I need to get rid of the ball quicker, or step up on the pocket to buy more time."

    Any QB or Any WR? Ok, I know you are exaggerrating so I won't take that literally. In Houston last year everyone was saying the OL sucked, and they did. Bring in a new QB in Schaub...who is complaining about their OL this year? Who is calling their passing game inept? NO ONE.

    The Chiefs sacked us ONE more time than they sacked the Texans in week 1. Schaub went 16/22 with 225 yards, 1 TD, 1 int. Johnson had 7 catches for 142 yards.

    It's not the line. We lack weapons, and we have lacked them for the last 4 years.
    [/quote]
    cuz as i've said a million times, everything starts up front.
    wr's can only catch passes and make plays if the time is provided for them to get outta breaks.
    tjack or holcomb or brad johnson can only get passes off to open guys if they are provided the time to do so.
    so if you ask me what i've seen over the last 2 years that keeps on happening, is a breakdown at the line of scrimmage.
    i see us taking sacks or having to force passes.
    i haven't seen wrs being shown constantly blaketed, or qbs constantly missing open wrs.
    but i do keep on seeing guys blow by offensive lineman, or linebackers coming unblocked at the qb.


    and V i dont know how old you are but if i recall correctly dillon was there for i think one of the 3 super bowls, as i think deon branch was.
    so unless you consider antoine smith, david givins, david patten, and troy brown big time superstars you are incorrect once again.
    it's funny how they were still able to execute with those amazing weapons.
    but i'm sure you'll just say it was all brady and not the product of a good offensive line.
    and i suppose kurt warner was johnny unitas and did not benefit by playing behind a great st louis offensive line but now has lost 3 different starting jobs.

    in the end, how can we honestly judge any of the skill position players if we dont play well up front.
    actually if you wanna go back to culpepper, our line was playing poorly, and he went from 39 and like 9, to 3 and 12 and most of the pro bowl season was without moss.

    [/quote]

    Sorry, I just wanted to quote this.

    The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good -Samuel Johnson - lexicographer
    The word genius isn t applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein - Joe Theisman

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