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  1. #21
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    Good post. I'm not going to debate the whole thing, because I'd just be repeating points I've already stated.. but I will address this one paragraph:

    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    This talk about what the right kind of fan is, and whether or not certain people "deserve" to go to a game, or should watch arena football or go to a sports bar instead is probably the stupidest shit that tends to come up here. We are all fans here, regardless of our viewpoint on outdoor football in the winter.
    Yes. We are all fans, regardless of our opinions on outdoor football in winter. My point is, if that statement is TRUE, then people (not necessarily you in particular) need to put their asses where their mouth is and PROVE they are fans.

    Which may mean, bundling up and sitting in 10 degrees for a wintry December game.
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Oh good, bring that into the debate. Classy. I am sure he would want to be the poster boy for your position.
    Actually, he absolutely agrees with my position. Ask him the next time you are actually at a game. Oh wait... you don't go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Well, I think it is funny that when a fan says they like outdoor football they are accosted by the fair weather crowd but when they defend their position all of a sudden they hate purple heart winning veterans. Whatever,
    Defending your position != to saying that people who don't like outdoor football should take up arena football or go watch it in a sports bar. It is one thing to say you prefer outdoor football. It's another to defend your position by insulting everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    There would have been just as few or fewer at the metrodump. And the new stadium will see the same thing after the new car smell wears off and fans have to pay 200 bucks a pop if the team is playing shitty. Even if it has a nice roof.
    Right. Except for the fact that there has never been only 40k fans at a game in the Metrodome ever in the history of the Metrodome. But let's not let things like facts get in the way. And we already know that the average ticket price is going to be $97 (which is up $21 from what it is now). If the Vikings raised ticket prices to $200 a seat they would never sell in the Minnesota market. That would be as bad of a business move as, well, not putting a roof on the stadium.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formo View Post
    Good post. I'm not going to debate the whole thing, because I'd just be repeating points I've already stated.. but I will address this one paragraph:



    Yes. We are all fans, regardless of our opinions on outdoor football in winter. My point is, if that statement is TRUE, then people (not necessarily you in particular) need to put their asses where their mouth is and PROVE they are fans.

    Which may mean, bundling up and sitting in 10 degrees for a wintry December game.
    I think that there are a lot of ways to show one's fandom. That is one of them, but there are others. Using someone's choice as to whether or not they want to sit in an outdoor stadium in 10 deg for a game should not be the litmus test that defines us.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I think that there are a lot of ways to show one's fandom. That is one of them, but there are others. Using someone's choice as to whether or not they want to sit in an outdoor stadium in 10 deg for a game should not be the litmus test that defines us.
    I'm not knocking the folks that DON'T want to sit in 10 degrees for a football game. That's completely fine, 'diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks'. I'm more about praising the ones that do. And the ones that do, IMO, put themselves in a state of mind to relish it.

    To me, those that relish it are ultra true fans of football. I remember when my high school went to the state championship (Superior, WI in the early 90's) and practice the week (I think) before the championship game was snowed out. The team practiced on the student parking lot instead. There were a few players that had to stand around and wait until their 'turn' during the scrimmage part of practice after individuals. That shit is the worst because there's only a very thin layer of polyester/cotton, with no football jackets. I'm pretty certain that helped condition myself and many others for the ultra cold (Superior, WI, BTW, is far colder than any other city in MN, thanks to the lake effect).
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

  5. #25
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    Missed a couple of things that can be addressed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I would wager a 20 spot that if you took the attendance % of the Packers/bears that play outside and compared it to the Vikings/Lions that play inside the advantage would be on the outdoor teams.
    Well that is a safe bet considering the Packers have a higher demand and a well performing team, while the Lions are in a city that is mired in recession and hasn't had a performing team in decades. Surprising (or not to most of us) the Bears and Vikings were almost identical in attendance in 2010 (I don't have the 2011 stats yet). The Bears had an average attendance of 62,195. The Vikings had an average attendance of 63,926 in the games played in the Metrodome. The game at Ford Field had just under 46,000, and as we mentioned earlier, the game against the Bears at TCF had 40,450. And yes, this is attendance - not seats sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    And I believe there are more than enough people in this state who would and could support the team if the the ownership built and marketed it right. They can get more people on Mille Lacs or a lake in Brainerd in the winter for a fishing contest than would fit in the stadium. You are right, not everyone would like it but there are plenty enough to fill it.
    I know you strongly believe that, but do you have anything to back that up? And BTW, if you are talking about the Brainerd Jaycees Ice Fishing Contest, they had a grand total of 8,000 people there this year (and that was with a $150,000 prize on the line). You are about 56,000 people short of filling up the stadium. Or is there some other ice fishing contest in Minnesota that I am not aware of that draws 60,000+ people?

    OK, so enough of this...

    Honestly, if I thought that the Vikings could fill an outdoor stadium, then I would say go for it. Hell, I would still make every game that I could, and I would bring my Dad or my son to some of the early games. It wouldn't kill me. But I don't think that is feasible. Not only did that NOT work when the Vikings had an open air stadium (the very last game in the Old Met had just over 41,000 fans - the stadium could seat 48,000), but it is hit or miss in all of the outdoor stadiums that exist now. The Packers do well now - but they didn't in the 80's. The Broncos do pretty well. The Bills do not - they have a lower attendance than the Lions. The Eagles and Steelers are always sold out. The Bears vary by year.

    Is it as easy as saying that the Minnesota fans prefer more amenities? Maybe. Hell, probably. But who cares? It doesn't mean that they are any less of a fan than the person who refuses to go to a game because it is in a stadium with a roof. What it DOES mean is that an outdoor stadium would most likely be a poor business decision.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formo View Post
    Yeah. Probably. That comment, right there, is why we get labeled as fairweather fans. Read those last two words again.. Fairweather fans. Fans that only stick around when 'weather' (actual or metaphorical) is fair, or good. Hmmmm...



    Time to hang 'em up, old man. Let some of the younger, more raucous fans enjoy the atmosphere.



    Me personally? Plenty. It's called being dressed appropriately. Handwarmers. Thermos of coffee. Gloves. Hats. You know, stuff we Minnesotans wear when we are outside snowmobiling, snowblowing, etc in the middle of January.


    What some of you are forgetting is that there's only a few games per year that would qualify as 'cold'. And if we get a retractable roof, don't be surprised if they opt to use it. You are probably moaning about nothing.
    First off "fair weather" fans has more to do with sticking with the team through winning & non-winning seasons.

    It's not only arrogant, but stupid as well to claim anyone not sitting outside to watch a Vikings game as the "wrong kind of fan".

    Me personally? Plenty. It's called being dressed appropriately. Handwarmers. Thermos of coffee. Gloves. Hats. You know, stuff we Minnesotans wear when we are outside snowmobiling, snowblowing, etc in the middle of January.
    How many of them were Vikings games?
    How many of them freezing or pouring rain days would you have taken a 10 year old kid or your grandfather to?

    Thousands of Vikings fans have never even seen a Vikings home game live. Are they all "the wrong kind of fans"?

    Time to hang 'em up, old man. Let some of the younger, more raucous fans enjoy the atmosphere.
    So when you get old enough where your body can no longer take the cold (And it will happen) do you plan on coming back here to post that you are no longer a Vikings fan?
    Last edited by singersp; 05-20-2012 at 08:37 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Yep.



    Nope, I mean if the game is not important enough to you to watch it in it's natural environment then maybe arena football is for you.




    Well, put it this way- Go to Lambeau or soldier field on a cold, snowy day and tell their fans they should just go home and watch it on TV because it is way too cold to watch their favorite football team play and get back to me on their response.

    Honestly- If staying warm and dry is more important to you than the game then maybe a good sports bar is the best place for you.




    Lol.

    Do you realize that I spend every minute of free time in the fall and winter outside hunting, fishing, ice fishing, snowmobiling, 4 wheeling or anything that can be done out doors? This is Minnesota, it gets cold and i relish the time outside in the fresh air.
    You're missing the point. It's not about telling those fans that go to those games to go home because it's too cold or too wet, It's about YOU telling all those thousands of fans that aren't in that stadium that day that they are the "wrong kind of fans".

    BTW How is that ice shack working for you? Next time you're out ice fishing, go tell all those fisherman that have one that they are the wrong kind of fishermen.

    Next time you're out snowmobiling, go tell all those snowmobilers that have heated hand grips that they are the wrong kind of snowmobilers.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post

    You know what else I like? I like bringing my dad to games. He doesn't like the cold as much as I do, and I can tell you that he would not enjoy going to a late december game in an outdoor stadium. Does that make him less of a man? Well, considering he was a Green Beret who served several tours in Vietnam, then worked as a police office for 10 years before finishing his career in Corrections... who knows... Maybe his preference for being comfortable while watching a football game is more of a indicator of his toughness than his multiple purple hearts, or any of his bronze stars. <rolls eyes>
    I've met your dad several times. A great guy & definitely a die-hard Vikings game.

    Here's a thought, next time you bring your dad to a game, let it be known here on PP.O so that Formo & Purple Floyd can be sure to show up & tell your dad face to face that he's "the wrong kind of fan" and how much of a real "true" fan they are.

    I'd love to hear him tear into them, but I'm guessing they wouldn't say a thing & also that he would be a bigger man than that.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formo View Post
    I'm not knocking the folks that DON'T want to sit in 10 degrees for a football game. That's completely fine, 'diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks'.
    You're not? Hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by Formo View Post
    Prissy boy, stay home!! =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Formo View Post
    Fans that only stick around when 'weather' (actual or metaphorical) is fair, or good. Hmmmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Formo View Post
    Time to hang 'em up, old man. Let some of the younger, more raucous fans enjoy the atmosphere.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post

    Packer fans, I will admit, are something special.
    There is no genetic difference.....

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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