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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by marstc09 View Post
    This means nothing. First of all it is only T. Second, 1980-2011?! LMFAO. Child please. 3rd, all teams are different. One word...talent scouts.
    WTF, have you gone brain dead? I gave you the time used for the data. Most OL play in/around 6-10 years and covers enough of a time frame to show trends.

    Second, of course its T's for cripes sakes. Are you that slow that you can't (via the provided link) get the next step of the data? Probably why I opened with.......

    A little link for your research pleasure...
    LOL, I think the heat is getting to you out there.
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  2. #22
    Freakout is offline Coordinator
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    Kalil is the only left tackle that I would touch in the top 15 picks of the 1st round.

    Minnesota definitely needs to upgrade the line. Hutchinson is a shadow of his former self but you expect that out of a 34 year old lineman. Our right guard situation has been a revolving door the past 2 seasons. We all knew Charlie Johnson was in over his head at left tackle. Indy replaced him for a reason.

    I would like to see our front office look to address the line with free agency. They had the right idea when they went and signed Steve Hutchinson back in 2006.

    Hell I thought they were stupid for not signing Max Starks. Who is now starting again for Pittsburgh and playing pretty good.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Not sure where those stats are and I didn't see the Vikings even listed in there but here is another link from the site that shows how many players the Vikings have drafted in the 6 rounds since 2000.


    1 2010 5 161 Chris DeGeare G MIN Wake Forest
    2 2009 2 54 Phil Loadholt T MIN 2009 2011 3 14 41 Oklahoma
    3 2008 6 187 John Sullivan C MIN 2008 2011 3 13 55 Notre Dame
    4 2006 2 51 Ryan Cook C MIN 2006 2011 2 14 73 New Mexico
    5 2005 2 49 Marcus Johnson G MIN 2005 2009 1 7 53 Mississippi
    6 2004 4 115 Nat Dorsey T MIN 2004 2007 1 6 40 Georgia Tech
    7 2002 1 7 Bryant McKinnie T MIN 2002 2011 1 10 56 142 Miami (FL)
    8 2002 4 132 Edward Ta'amu G MIN Utah




    So in a decade plus one the team has drafted 8 players on the OL and out of those players drafted 2 are on the team and both are no more than marginal players at best. (Herrera was an UDFA)

    If you are taking the position that the team HAS been focused on building the line and that they have done a good job of it then I will respectfully disagree.
    \
    You just have to click on the top of the columns once you select the timeframe. I picked the 10/11 year option and sorted by Team.

    Again, it shows that the Vikes use about the same amount of picks that the rest of the league does.

    Problem is, most fans want to see OLmen picked high, when in fact, prior to the last 5 years or so, very few were and when they were they were just T's for the most part.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakout View Post
    Kalil is the only left tackle that I would touch in the top 15 picks of the 1st round.

    Minnesota definitely needs to upgrade the line. Hutchinson is a shadow of his former self but you expect that out of a 34 year old lineman. Our right guard situation has been a revolving door the past 2 seasons. We all knew Charlie Johnson was in over his head at left tackle. Indy replaced him for a reason.

    I would like to see our front office look to address the line with free agency. They had the right idea when they went and signed Steve Hutchinson back in 2006.

    Hell I thought they were stupid for not signing Max Starks. Who is now starting again for Pittsburgh and playing pretty good.
    Agree in total......Just a couple of comments....

    a. Hutch is a ZB G. He actually does pretty good when he is used that way. He can even pull pretty decently if he isn't asked to pull from his side to the other. Why the staff is asking him to do crap like that is beyond me and flies in the face of the "We are going to use them the right way" shit we heard coming out of this staff early on.

    b. I love Herrera, but he is a liablility cause he can't stay healthy. I read a piece that said they might move Johnson in at RG cause he was better suited for that and get one more year out of Hutch by using more of the ZB scheme next year, which would mean they would only have to fix the LT position right away.

    c. Actually been watching alot of college ball this year and have seen Kalil play twice. He's a stud but I would like them to look at a playmaker first and get a Olmen later. Again, staffs have been doing it that way for alot of years.

    On a side note, great post.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Two excellent points. Just one quick question.........

    If, (BIG DAMN IF) Cook comes back next year, would you be good with Cook(LCB), Asher (RCB) and Griff (Nickle) as a starting point and look a bit deeper in the draft for a CB? Maybe a Gilmore or a Fletcher?
    Considering that we are getting our butts handed to us in the passing game and have to face Detroit, Chicago and TB twice a year and they all either have or are building strong passing games then absolutely I would take a CB even if we had the players you mentioned. Griff is on his last leg, Cook really has not shown any consistency except that he can beat a woman and Asher is nothing special and cannot take on a WR one on one consistently so to be able to have DB's that can lock down a WR is something we really need to have. The T2 is getting hammered by the new passing offenses and I have no desire to see it continue.

    I think that the shitcanning of BB makes WR a pretty high priority that could be satisfied by a later pick as well, but you do have some options at CB but very little on the roster at WR. Truth is, you probably have to go out and get atleast 2 (Field Stretcher and a Possesion/Red Zone) on the roster to help Percy out next year.
    Yeah, Childress left us in a deep hole but I think if you watch the league you would admit that the TE can be used effectively even when you don't have a deep threat ( See NE). I would spend the 2nd on a WR or look in FA to get one and then use a high pick in the 2013 draft to address that if it still looks like a need.

    That being said I put more of a premium on guys that can run great routes, can understand the scheme, and can catch the ball consistently than on the burners who may not have the best route running ability or the best hands.

    I like the prospects of:

    a. WR Blackmon or Jeffrey with the first pick. Both are Plex/Rice type of possesion guys.
    b. DT Ta'Amu (2nd round)/DT Geathers (3rd Round)
    c. OT Sanders or Adcock (can you imagine the fun we would have with that name) in the 3rd if you take DT in the second.
    The names Claiborne and Gilmore are at the top of my list right now.
    Here is a BR Mock draft :

    The Minnesota Vikings will (and should) consider either Matt Kalil or Jonathan Martin here but the correct choice is Morris Claiborne. The Vikings must consider the offenses they face a total of six times a year.
    Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford and Jay Cutler are premier quarterbacks in a league heavily favored towards the passing game. Most recently successful teams have an elite playmaker in the secondary like Charles Woodson, Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed.



    Flag








    Again, as always, I'm on my soapbox about the lack of pressure our DT's are getting up the middle. K-dubb flashed last weekend, but you also saw the LT handle JA all by himself cause all he had to do was take him deep each and every pass play allowing the QB to step up into a damn clean pocket.
    Ballard will solidify that spot next year and if we need to we can pick up a vet hole plugger in FA. No need to burn a draft pick there at this point. Especially considering we have bigger holes to fill elsewhere.

    When you draft at the top of the 1st round you are looking at 4 positions:

    QB,
    CB
    DE
    WR.

    Only after you have those core spots filled do you go to other spots and then it would be LT, MLB. S before you get to DT. You cannot mess with the formula lol.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    \
    You just have to click on the top of the columns once you select the timeframe. I picked the 10/11 year option and sorted by Team.

    Again, it shows that the Vikes use about the same amount of picks that the rest of the league does.

    Problem is, most fans want to see OLmen picked high, when in fact, prior to the last 5 years or so, very few were and when they were they were just T's for the most part.
    Well yeah, LT is basically the position that gets picked highest in the draft. Not too many left guards get selected in the top 20 picks so in that respect it is going to be hard to find high picks on the OL outside of the LT.

    But that being said I think my post should drive home the fact that we have not done much at all in terms of drafting OL at any spot in the draft over the past 11 years. 8 players total is a pretty small number.

  7. #27
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    How I miss our chats......

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Considering that we are getting our butts handed to us in the passing game and have to face Detroit, Chicago and TB twice a year and they all either have or are building strong passing games then absolutely I would take a CB even if we had the players you mentioned. Griff is on his last leg, Cook really has not shown any consistency except that he can beat a woman and Asher is nothing special and cannot take on a WR one on one consistently so to be able to have DB's that can lock down a WR is something we really need to have. The T2 is getting hammered by the new passing offenses and I have no desire to see it continue.
    A CB will help in that regard, but only if we really change the scheme. I don't care how many CB's you have on the field, if those QB's are allowed to stand there and make 3 and 4 reads, they will find someone open.

    Best way to stop those guys (using the scheme we have) is to collapse the pocket and provide pressure from the edges. Right now (for the last 2 or 3 years) we haven't been collapsing the pocket.

    Yeah, Childress left us in a deep hole but I think if you watch the league you would admit that the TE can be used effectively even when you don't have a deep threat ( See NE). I would spend the 2nd on a WR or look in FA to get one and then use a high pick in the 2013 draft to address that if it still looks like a need.
    It wasn't Childress who let Rice leave. I do blame him for bringing in the Noodle who couldn't throw to Berrian. Saw the same issue with Dnabb. Like it or not, BB (with both of those QB's) was used in a manner that didn't match his talents and that was to run 8 and 9 routes. If they would have done that with him ala the year before the Noodle showed, he would have been productive.

    But even without BB, if we had Rice going across the middle, working the 4, 5 and 6 routes, we would be fine. Jenkins is OK, but not consistent enough in that role so teams aren't using LB's to help allowing them to crash down and flood the gaps going to the QB.

    Only way to fix our passing problems is to keep teams from doing that. Again a new OLmen will still only protect one gap.


    The names Claiborne and Gilmore are at the top of my list right now.
    Here is a BR Mock draft :

    The Minnesota Vikings will (and should) consider either Matt Kalil or Jonathan Martin here but the correct choice is Morris Claiborne. The Vikings must consider the offenses they face a total of six times a year.
    Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford and Jay Cutler are premier quarterbacks in a league heavily favored towards the passing game. Most recently successful teams have an elite playmaker in the secondary like Charles Woodson, Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed.
    Those guys are good cause QB's aren't standing still in the pocket picking them apart. Just like Sharp, they don't "Pick" alot of passes off, but rather rely on being at the right spot at the right time when the QB is forced to make a bad throw.


    Ballard will solidify that spot next year and if we need to we can pick up a vet hole plugger in FA. No need to burn a draft pick there at this point. Especially considering we have bigger holes to fill elsewhere.
    I hope your right but I see Ballard as more of a 3 technique guy instead of the 0 technique. Maybe he will suprise me. Right now, though, our biggest issue is that damn pocket. Watch the tape from the last game, JA was singled up (again) and rode deep each passing play and was held to no sacks because of it, not to mention how teams can now just run on us when they need to burn the clock.

    When you draft at the top of the 1st round you are looking at 4 positions:

    QB,
    CB
    DE
    WR.

    Only after you have those core spots filled do you go to other spots and then it would be LT, MLB. S before you get to DT. You cannot mess with the formula lol.
    So if you had a chance to take Suh you wouldn't take him that high? Crazy talk from someone who doesn't show up on any of the "Crazy Talk" spreadsheets.

    You take difference makers with every pick. Atleast the best difference maker you can find. Trust me, if we had a stud at DT like Suh our rush defense wouldn't be declining like it is and our C2 defense would look like a C2 defense.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    ...snicker...typical answer when you don't have anything better. Of course I'm not comparing them. I comparing a OL that everyone seems to think is great because it was built using high draft picks that isn't great.


    I can understand that, but our OL, although not the best in the league is far from being not talented.

    What they are is a OL that plays in front of a fan base that continually gets confused by a sack given up by a TE over a sack given up by a T.

    Its the same fan base that doesn't understand that if you take the TE off the field and run out another WR, that defender, who just got that sack would also come off the field for a DB.



    That I will agree on. So puzzle me this bat man, why doesn't the O-coord put his players in a position to succeed (like you all chanted he would when I posted that he not only sucked, but that he would suck here) and put them in player sets that get them out of max protect look requirements?


    How many LB'rs are on the field with 3 wide? How many with 4 wide? How many with 3 TE's stacked up next to our T's?



    I'm not the one confused.
    Ah yes here comes your failure when you have nothing else to say.....

    1. I never said the Packers OL is good
    2. Did you not pay attention? We rank 27th in sacks. That is not talented. LOL
    3. Blocking sucks. Period. TE or OL or RB. Make sense yet? Oh wait you want to spread now and take away that TE. Good job Coach. LOL
    4. OC not putting them in position to suceed? WHAT? You can't create talent. Matt seems to agree. You know an NFL QB not an armchair QB.

    "Matt Ryan said the #Vikings offense does similar things to Atlanta's with OC Bill Musgrave, but he said it is tailored to player strength."

    Twitter

    We have no player strengths. They suck.

    Too easy....

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    WTF, have you gone brain dead? I gave you the time used for the data. Most OL play in/around 6-10 years and covers enough of a time frame to show trends.

    Second, of course its T's for cripes sakes. Are you that slow that you can't (via the provided link) get the next step of the data? Probably why I opened with.......



    LOL, I think the heat is getting to you out there.
    You are the only one brain dead. One would just have to look at your Facebook post. Just face it people got tired of your crap and left. FYI people resort to name calling when they have nothing else left. Pathetic.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Well yeah, LT is basically the position that gets picked highest in the draft. Not too many left guards get selected in the top 20 picks so in that respect it is going to be hard to find high picks on the OL outside of the LT.

    But that being said I think my post should drive home the fact that we have not done much at all in terms of drafting OL at any spot in the draft over the past 11 years. 8 players total is a pretty small number.
    Good post.

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