Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 43
  1. #31
    Minniman's Avatar
    Minniman is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    When they don't work out, they were never worth the pick. When they do work out, it was brilliant. Ignore all the draft expert analysis, it is not real with how franchises grade out players.

    So yes, you are right as time has shown. However, every franchise will have multiple picks that were clearly NOT worth picking every year.
    Quarterbacks are boom/bust more often than not. Teams invest more into development of a quarterback than any other position, and quarterbacks cannot often be just "good" and get a passing grade.

    I did not understand the Ponder pick from the minute he was drafted. He was considered a reach at the time on most draft boards, and he ended up a reach. If Ponder had been drafted in the second or third round, not at twelfth overall, perhaps fans would let it go.

    The Vikings did get first round talent Kyle Rudolph in the second round, so it balanced out somewhat. It was not a great draft, but it was not bad, like the 2010 draft, or horrendous, like the 2005 draft.

    On a side note, Scott Pioli was hired as the assistant GM in Atlanta. That is too bad, because he knows how to run drafts, and he could have done well in Minnesota.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Boise Idaho
    Posts
    1,022
    So far other than the Ponder pick, I'm pretty happy with what Spielman has done here.

  3. #33
    Minniman's Avatar
    Minniman is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by idahovikefan7 View Post
    So far other than the Ponder pick, I'm pretty happy with what Spielman has done here.
    With picks or his job overall?

    The Vikings did not even have a starting middle linebacker at the start of the 2013 season. Team depth at everything but defensive end and tight end is almost non-existent. Spielman never replaced Fat Pat with a big enough body. He did not sign needed free agents. He put too many eggs in Ponder's basket. Spielman has done some good things, but he has not built a consistent winner.

    The Vikings have not had a great GM since Jim Finks resigned.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Boise Idaho
    Posts
    1,022
    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    With picks or his job overall?

    The Vikings did not even have a starting middle linebacker at the start of the 2013 season. Team depth at everything but defensive end and tight end is almost non-existent. Spielman never replaced Fat Pat with a big enough body. He did not sign needed free agents. He put too many eggs in Ponder's basket. Spielman has done some good things, but he has not built a consistent winner.

    The Vikings have not had a great GM since Jim Finks resigned.
    With picks and his job overall. What about the Harvin trade? Look what that's turned into. Not only were we capable of grabbing Patterson in the draft, but got one of the best proven receivers in the game.

    He hasn't built a consistent winner "yet" but I think this team is going to be on the up-rise for years to come. And this starts with the Zimmer hire and house cleaning that's taking place as we speak.

    I'm not crowning Spielman with anything yet, but I like what he's brought so far and the direction he has this organization going. Some trial and error is going to take place when building a franchise from the very bottom. As long as the "errors" are fixed, or at least improved I'm not going to complain.

  5. #35
    tarkenton10's Avatar
    tarkenton10 is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,200
    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    With picks or his job overall?

    The Vikings did not even have a starting middle linebacker at the start of the 2013 season. Team depth at everything but defensive end and tight end is almost non-existent. Spielman never replaced Fat Pat with a big enough body. He did not sign needed free agents. He put too many eggs in Ponder's basket. Spielman has done some good things, but he has not built a consistent winner.

    The Vikings have not had a great GM since Jim Finks resigned.
    I think some of the blame has to go to the coaches. I liked Spielman's last two drafts and he has found some talent in the previous drafts. Especially in the fourth round. For example, I don't think Josh Robinson is ever going to be a great slot CB but he may be better on the outside if he got coached up, who fault is that? Where does the blame lie, probably on both the GM and the coach. Ballard was a heck of a talent for the fourth round, I bet no GM would ever imagine he would just quit the game. Look at his drafts since he got here and he ahs done a decent job finding talent, I don't think it was ever coached up.

    2007

    1. ..... ADRIAN PETERSON (7), RB, Oklahoma. Great pick, HOF RB
    2. ..... SIDNEY RICE (44), WR, South Carolina. Great Pick Starting WR (Seattle)

    3. ..... MARCUS McCAULEY (72), CB, Fresno State.

    4. ..... BRIAN ROBISON (102), DE, Texas. Steal of the draft Starting LDE
    5. ..... AUNDRAE ALLISON (146), WR, East Carolina.

    6. ..... RUFUS ALEXANDER (176), LB, Oklahoma.

    7. ..... (A) TYLER THIGPEN (217), QB, Coastal Carolina. Great pick -Should have developed him

    7. ..... (B) CHANDLER WILLIAMS (233), WR, Florida International. Choice from Denver in exchange of picks.

    2008

    1. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen. Great decision Starting HOF RDE

    2. ..... TYRELL JOHNSON (43), S, Arkansas State. Bad choice I must admit

    3. ..... (A) NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen. Great decision

    3. ..... (B) NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen. Great Decision

    4. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Philadelphia in exchange of draft picks.

    5. ..... (A) JOHN DAVID BOOTY (137), QB, Southern California. Choice from Green Bay in exchange of draft picks.

    5. ..... (B) LETROY GUION (152), DT, Florida State. Choice from Philadelphia in exchange of draft picks. Solid pick has been in the starting lineup

    6. ..... (A) JOHN SULLIVAN (187), C, Notre Dame. Choice from Kansas City in exchange of drat picks. Steal of the draft

    6. ..... (B) JAYMAR JOHNSON (193), WR, Jackson State. Choice from Jacksonville in Troy Williamson trade.

    7. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Green Bay in exchange of draft picks.

    2009

    1. ..... PERCY HARVIN (22), WR, Florida. Great pick OROTY

    2. ..... PHIL LOADHOLT (54), OT, Oklahoma. starting RT

    3. ..... ASHER ALLEN (86), CB, Georgia.

    4. ..... NO CHOICE

    5. ..... JASPER BRINKLEY (150), LB, South Carolina. Good pick starting LB (ARI)

    6. ..... NO CHOICE

    7. ..... JAMARCA SANFORD (231), FS, Mississippi. Good pick- has played and started for us

    2010

    1. ..... NO CHOICE

    2. ..... CHRIS COOK (34), CB, Virginia bad pick

    2. ..... TOBY GERHART (51), RB, Stanford Good pick, he will start somewhere next year.

    3. ..... NO CHOICE

    4. ..... EVERSON GRIFFEN (100), DE, Southern Cal Stud, great pick.

    5. ..... CHRIS DEGEARE (161), OT, Wake Forrest

    5. ..... NATE TRIPLETT (167), LB, Minnesota

    6. ..... JOE WEBB (199), QB, UAB

    7. ..... MICKEY SHULER (214), TE, Penn State

    7. ..... RYAN D'IMPERIO (237), LB, Rutgers

    2011

    1. ..... CHRISTIAN PONDER (12), QB, Florida State Bad choice

    2. ..... KYLE RUDOLPH (43), TE, Notre Dame Great choice, made up for Ponder

    3. ..... NO CHOICE

    4. ..... CHRISTIAN BALLARD (106), DL, Iowa Great pick, who knew he was thinking of quitting?

    5. ..... BRANDON BURTON (139), CB, Utah

    6. ..... DEMARCUS LOVE (168), OL, Arkansas

    6. ..... MISTRAL RAYMOND (170), DB, South Flordia Good pick -Has started for us

    6. ..... BRANDON FUSCO (172), OL, Slippery Rock Starting RG Good pick

    6. ..... ROSS HOMAN (200), LB, Ohio State

    7. ..... D'AUNDRE REED (215), DL, Arizona

    7. ..... STEPHEN BURTON (236), WR, West Texas A&M

    2012

    1. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Cleveland in exchange of draft picks.

    1. ..... (B) MATT KALIL (4), T, USC. Choice from Cleveland for 1A. Good pick Starting LT

    1. ..... (C) HARRISON SMITH (29), S, Notre Dame. Choice from Baltimore for 2 and 4A. Great pick

    2. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Baltimore for 1C

    3. ..... JOSH ROBINSON (66), CB, Central Florida OK pick the jury is still out, I say try him on the outside

    4. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Baltimore for 1C

    4. ..... (B) JARIUS WRIGHT (118), WR, Arkansas. Choice from Cleveland for 1A.
    Great pick, very good slot receiver

    4. ..... (C) RHETT ELLISON (128), TE, USC. Compensatory Selection. Great pick, very versatile.

    4. ..... (D) GREG CHILDS, (134), WR, Arkansas. Compensatory Selection.

    5. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Detroit for 7C and 4th in 13

    5...... (B) ROBERT BLANTON (139), DB, Notre Dame. Choice from Cleveland for 1A.

    6. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Washington for D. McNabb

    6. ..... (B) BLAIR WALSH (175), K, Georgia. Choice from Cleveland in the Jayme Mitchell trade. Great pick all pro kicker

    7. ..... (A) AUDIE COLE (210), LB, NC State great pick, he will fight for the starting MIKE in the spring

    7. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Tennessee for 6th in 13. Choice from Cleveland for 1A.

    7. ..... (C) TREVOR GUYTON (219), DL, California. Choice from Detroit for 5A. Good pick, for a 7th round pick he did contribute, that is good for that draft slot.

    So if you look at his drafts, he drafts at least three quality starters and sometimes four. And I argue the point that if he had some coaching the number of starters from each draft class would be higher. He hit some home runs in the fourth and fifth rounds. Now free agency is a mixed bag of players. Let's hope he gets a few more right on that front.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  6. #36
    Flair Hay is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    87
    I agree somewhat Tark but picking up Rudolph did not make up for bombing on Ponder. Fairley and Quinn both went right after IIRC and they'd have helped us a lot more than Ponder who did nothing but waste a season of Adrian's prime last year.

  7. #37
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    13,499
    To compare apples to apples, you should really put him up against every other GM in the league and rate their drafts.

    While I'm not a huge Spielman fan, we have had 2 ROY's since 2007 (when he was VP of player personnel) and we could have a third this year in Patterson... however, Eddy Lacy will probably win - and deservedly so.

    I say give Spielman another 2 seasons. If we're still looking for a QB at the end of the 2015 season, I'll personally pay for his ticket to the Bermuda Triangle.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  8. #38
    tarkenton10's Avatar
    tarkenton10 is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,200
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair Hay View Post
    I agree somewhat Tark but picking up Rudolph did not make up for bombing on Ponder. Fairley and Quinn both went right after IIRC and they'd have helped us a lot more than Ponder who did nothing but waste a season of Adrian's prime last year.
    Very true

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  9. #39
    rockymtdan's Avatar
    rockymtdan is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Penrose Co 81240
    Posts
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by Flair Hay View Post
    I agree somewhat Tark but picking up Rudolph did not make up for bombing on Ponder. Fairley and Quinn both went right after IIRC and they'd have helped us a lot more than Ponder who did nothing but waste a season of Adrian's prime last year.
    SWo true
    Go ahead back up your to close away.

  10. #40
    drewlovs's Avatar
    drewlovs is offline Asst. Coach
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    I think some of the blame has to go to the coaches. I liked Spielman's last two drafts and he has found some talent in the previous drafts. Especially in the fourth round. For example, I don't think Josh Robinson is ever going to be a great slot CB but he may be better on the outside if he got coached up, who fault is that? Where does the blame lie, probably on both the GM and the coach. Ballard was a heck of a talent for the fourth round, I bet no GM would ever imagine he would just quit the game. Look at his drafts since he got here and he ahs done a decent job finding talent, I don't think it was ever coached up.

    2007

    1. ..... ADRIAN PETERSON (7), RB, Oklahoma. Great pick, HOF RB
    2. ..... SIDNEY RICE (44), WR, South Carolina. Great Pick Starting WR (Seattle)

    3. ..... MARCUS McCAULEY (72), CB, Fresno State.

    4. ..... BRIAN ROBISON (102), DE, Texas. Steal of the draft Starting LDE
    5. ..... AUNDRAE ALLISON (146), WR, East Carolina.

    6. ..... RUFUS ALEXANDER (176), LB, Oklahoma.

    7. ..... (A) TYLER THIGPEN (217), QB, Coastal Carolina. Great pick -Should have developed him

    7. ..... (B) CHANDLER WILLIAMS (233), WR, Florida International. Choice from Denver in exchange of picks.

    2008

    1. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen. Great decision Starting HOF RDE

    2. ..... TYRELL JOHNSON (43), S, Arkansas State. Bad choice I must admit

    3. ..... (A) NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen. Great decision

    3. ..... (B) NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen. Great Decision

    4. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Philadelphia in exchange of draft picks.

    5. ..... (A) JOHN DAVID BOOTY (137), QB, Southern California. Choice from Green Bay in exchange of draft picks.

    5. ..... (B) LETROY GUION (152), DT, Florida State. Choice from Philadelphia in exchange of draft picks. Solid pick has been in the starting lineup

    6. ..... (A) JOHN SULLIVAN (187), C, Notre Dame. Choice from Kansas City in exchange of drat picks. Steal of the draft

    6. ..... (B) JAYMAR JOHNSON (193), WR, Jackson State. Choice from Jacksonville in Troy Williamson trade.

    7. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Green Bay in exchange of draft picks.

    2009

    1. ..... PERCY HARVIN (22), WR, Florida. Great pick OROTY

    2. ..... PHIL LOADHOLT (54), OT, Oklahoma. starting RT

    3. ..... ASHER ALLEN (86), CB, Georgia.

    4. ..... NO CHOICE

    5. ..... JASPER BRINKLEY (150), LB, South Carolina. Good pick starting LB (ARI)

    6. ..... NO CHOICE

    7. ..... JAMARCA SANFORD (231), FS, Mississippi. Good pick- has played and started for us

    2010

    1. ..... NO CHOICE

    2. ..... CHRIS COOK (34), CB, Virginia bad pick

    2. ..... TOBY GERHART (51), RB, Stanford Good pick, he will start somewhere next year.

    3. ..... NO CHOICE

    4. ..... EVERSON GRIFFEN (100), DE, Southern Cal Stud, great pick.

    5. ..... CHRIS DEGEARE (161), OT, Wake Forrest

    5. ..... NATE TRIPLETT (167), LB, Minnesota

    6. ..... JOE WEBB (199), QB, UAB

    7. ..... MICKEY SHULER (214), TE, Penn State

    7. ..... RYAN D'IMPERIO (237), LB, Rutgers

    2011

    1. ..... CHRISTIAN PONDER (12), QB, Florida State Bad choice

    2. ..... KYLE RUDOLPH (43), TE, Notre Dame Great choice, made up for Ponder

    3. ..... NO CHOICE

    4. ..... CHRISTIAN BALLARD (106), DL, Iowa Great pick, who knew he was thinking of quitting?

    5. ..... BRANDON BURTON (139), CB, Utah

    6. ..... DEMARCUS LOVE (168), OL, Arkansas

    6. ..... MISTRAL RAYMOND (170), DB, South Flordia Good pick -Has started for us

    6. ..... BRANDON FUSCO (172), OL, Slippery Rock Starting RG Good pick

    6. ..... ROSS HOMAN (200), LB, Ohio State

    7. ..... D'AUNDRE REED (215), DL, Arizona

    7. ..... STEPHEN BURTON (236), WR, West Texas A&M

    2012

    1. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Cleveland in exchange of draft picks.

    1. ..... (B) MATT KALIL (4), T, USC. Choice from Cleveland for 1A. Good pick Starting LT

    1. ..... (C) HARRISON SMITH (29), S, Notre Dame. Choice from Baltimore for 2 and 4A. Great pick

    2. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Baltimore for 1C

    3. ..... JOSH ROBINSON (66), CB, Central Florida OK pick the jury is still out, I say try him on the outside

    4. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Baltimore for 1C

    4. ..... (B) JARIUS WRIGHT (118), WR, Arkansas. Choice from Cleveland for 1A.
    Great pick, very good slot receiver

    4. ..... (C) RHETT ELLISON (128), TE, USC. Compensatory Selection. Great pick, very versatile.

    4. ..... (D) GREG CHILDS, (134), WR, Arkansas. Compensatory Selection.

    5. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Detroit for 7C and 4th in 13

    5...... (B) ROBERT BLANTON (139), DB, Notre Dame. Choice from Cleveland for 1A.

    6. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Washington for D. McNabb

    6. ..... (B) BLAIR WALSH (175), K, Georgia. Choice from Cleveland in the Jayme Mitchell trade. Great pick all pro kicker

    7. ..... (A) AUDIE COLE (210), LB, NC State great pick, he will fight for the starting MIKE in the spring

    7. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Tennessee for 6th in 13. Choice from Cleveland for 1A.

    7. ..... (C) TREVOR GUYTON (219), DL, California. Choice from Detroit for 5A. Good pick, for a 7th round pick he did contribute, that is good for that draft slot.

    So if you look at his drafts, he drafts at least three quality starters and sometimes four. And I argue the point that if he had some coaching the number of starters from each draft class would be higher. He hit some home runs in the fourth and fifth rounds. Now free agency is a mixed bag of players. Let's hope he gets a few more right on that front.
    Beyond Flair Hay's exception, I also want to point out he might not have had the coach that shared his vision. If that is the case, and the last 2 guys fundamentally disagreed with him, then it really didn't matter who he picked up, unless they were the elite diamonds in the rough.

    If you have ever seen the movie Moneyball, you can see what I'm talking about. The GM was drafting and recruiting a team for a purpose the coach or manager has no intention of putting on the field. If that is happening behind the scenes, and they can't come to an understanding, bad things happens. Dysfunctionality is the name of the game.
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

    ~Napoleon Bonaparte on Politics

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •