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  1. #21
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099282
    As to Sully, I did think he would be better, and in 09 he graded out exactly like Birk, lest you forget.
    Do you really believe that?

    What I saw, was a big, strong Center downgraded to a small, weak center who couldn't stand up to the big DT's he was asked to block.

    Mentally, he was learning the game, but seemed to get a grasp on it. Physically, he was never really very good.

  2. #22
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099266
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099262
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1099244
    I think Marr is right. You don't let your players hit the open market. It's bad business.

    And several of the players you listed will have new deals. It's the same thing that happened to Birk that most of your guys didn't want back. The Ravens were happy to add him and now AD can't find an open hole even if he had a handful of hundreds in a strip club.
    If you were talking to me I have to say I have the utmost respect for your opinion on this board and think you are one of PP.O's most valuable assets. But in this case you seem confused.

    Marr was the guy that said Birk was washed up and needed to go. He, like a few others saw 2 delayed blitzes come up the middle untouched by Birk, and blamed it on him.

    Truth was, Birk was engaged on his man at the time and the blitzer was Peterson's responsibility.

    Birk was starting to get pushed around a bit by some of the big nose tackles, and drafting a stud center would have been fine.
    But trying to replace him with a late round draft pick was foolish.

    Virtually nobody here wanted to see Birk go, except Marr.

    As far as this group of free agents, the Vikings know who they want to keep, and have a plan if that doesn't work out.

    The Vikings will have a long list of free agents to deal with when the NFL lockout finally does end, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman said team officials have "a pretty good idea" of the players they want to keep. That such decisions have been made comes as no surprise given the amount of time the Vikings have had to analyze any situation that might happen when the work stoppage is done.
    "Our history has been to keep our young guys, especially trying to come out of their first contracts [as well as] get those guys," Spielman said Wednesday while playing in the team's charity golf tournament that benefits the Vikings Children's Fund at Rush Creek in Maple Grove. "I think that’s the top priority and then we’ll kind of see where everything else falls in place.
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/123557784.html

    It's the labor dispute and lack of a collective bargaining agreement that leads the Vikings down this path.
    The Vikings know what they are doing and are prepared for it.
    The loss of Birk involves a different time and context, and though an obvious mistake, bears no relevance to the current free agency situation.
    I said that Matt didn't fit the ZB scheme and was continually blitzed up the middle. Not just 2 plays my friend.
    Missed the point. Point was that free agency is being treated differently now as compared to when Birk was a free agent due to the labor dispute.
    I backed that assertion with a link to an article that showed the Vikings have a plan to keep the free agents they want.

    Birk isn't a good example of letting a free agent go because the context of free agency is different this year due to the lockout and labor dispute.

    No need to revisit whether we should have kept Birk. You are the only one here who thought he couldn't do the job.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  3. #23
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099262
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1099244
    I think Marr is right. You don't let your players hit the open market. It's bad business.

    And several of the players you listed will have new deals. It's the same thing that happened to Birk that most of your guys didn't want back. The Ravens were happy to add him and now AD can't find an open hole even if he had a handful of hundreds in a strip club.
    If you were talking to me I have to say I have the utmost respect for your opinion on this board and think you are one of PP.O's most valuable assets. But in this case you seem confused.

    Marr was the guy that said Birk was washed up and needed to go. He, like a few others saw 2 delayed blitzes come up the middle untouched by Birk, and blamed it on him.

    Truth was, Birk was engaged on his man at the time and the blitzer was Peterson's responsibility.

    Birk was starting to get pushed around a bit by some of the big nose tackles, and drafting a stud center would have been fine.
    But trying to replace him with a late round draft pick was foolish.

    Virtually nobody here wanted to see Birk go, except Marr.

    As far as this group of free agents, the Vikings know who they want to keep, and have a plan if that doesn't work out.

    The Vikings will have a long list of free agents to deal with when the NFL lockout finally does end, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman said team officials have "a pretty good idea" of the players they want to keep. That such decisions have been made comes as no surprise given the amount of time the Vikings have had to analyze any situation that might happen when the work stoppage is done.
    "Our history has been to keep our young guys, especially trying to come out of their first contracts [as well as] get those guys," Spielman said Wednesday while playing in the team's charity golf tournament that benefits the Vikings Children's Fund at Rush Creek in Maple Grove. "I think that’s the top priority and then we’ll kind of see where everything else falls in place.
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/123557784.html

    It's the labor dispute and lack of a collective bargaining agreement that leads the Vikings down this path.
    The Vikings know what they are doing and are prepared for it.
    The loss of Birk involves a different time and context, and though an obvious mistake, bears no relevance to the current free agency situation.
    Oh I'm aware of Marr's contempt for all things Birk ever since he decided to have surgery instead of playing through Hernia induced pain. I was agreeing to the notion that you don't let guys hit the open market. Regardless of the labor situation, Letting two guys in their mid twenties hit the market is a lose lose. In fact, have you noticed that we are the only team loosing two top teir FA in their prime?

  4. #24
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099265
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099241
    http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/6/21/2236059/is-sidney-rice-damaged-goods

    Based on my sources, Rice will be hard-pressed to get a big guarantee, and #Vikings are willing to compete with incentives/escalators.
    They had Casserly on last night. He said that the FA market will be just like it was last year and the year before and the year before......

    1 Week of flurry with the top guys getting signed right away and they will get top dollar. Teams already have done their research on the ones they are targeting and will get them in for physicals/visits. Rice was mentioned as one of those.

    What will change is the second tier guys. They will probably get their best deal from their home club because there won't be enough time to go on visists.

    Rice is not considered a second tier guy regardless of the injury history. Most believe last years "Injury" was nothing more than him protecting himself for a big payday this year.

    If that is the case, do you really want a guy on your team who will take an entire year off to "protect himself for a big payday"? Besides, if he is so good he would of never had a problem reproducing his numbers and would likely be looking at a bigger payday.

  5. #25
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Chazz" #1099309
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099265
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099241
    http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/6/21/2236059/is-sidney-rice-damaged-goods

    Based on my sources, Rice will be hard-pressed to get a big guarantee, and #Vikings are willing to compete with incentives/escalators.
    They had Casserly on last night. He said that the FA market will be just like it was last year and the year before and the year before......

    1 Week of flurry with the top guys getting signed right away and they will get top dollar. Teams already have done their research on the ones they are targeting and will get them in for physicals/visits. Rice was mentioned as one of those.

    What will change is the second tier guys. They will probably get their best deal from their home club because there won't be enough time to go on visists.

    Rice is not considered a second tier guy regardless of the injury history. Most believe last years "Injury" was nothing more than him protecting himself for a big payday this year.

    If that is the case, do you really want a guy on your team who will take an entire year off to "protect himself for a big payday"? Besides, if he is so good he would of never had a problem reproducing his numbers and would likely be looking at a bigger payday.
    **cough** Sidney Rice **cough**

    :whistle:

  6. #26
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099269
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099267
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099266
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099262
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1099244
    I think Marr is right. You don't let your players hit the open market. It's bad business.

    And several of the players you listed will have new deals. It's the same thing that happened to Birk that most of your guys didn't want back. The Ravens were happy to add him and now AD can't find an open hole even if he had a handful of hundreds in a strip club.
    If you were talking to me I have to say I have the utmost respect for your opinion on this board and think you are one of PP.O's most valuable assets. But in this case you seem confused.

    Marr was the guy that said Birk was washed up and needed to go. He, like a few others saw 2 delayed blitzes come up the middle untouched by Birk, and blamed it on him.

    Truth was, Birk was engaged on his man at the time and the blitzer was Peterson's responsibility.

    Birk was starting to get pushed around a bit by some of the big nose tackles, and drafting a stud center would have been fine.
    But trying to replace him with a late round draft pick was foolish.

    Virtually nobody here wanted to see Birk go, except Marr.

    As far as this group of free agents, the Vikings know who they want to keep, and have a plan if that doesn't work out.

    The Vikings will have a long list of free agents to deal with when the NFL lockout finally does end, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman said team officials have "a pretty good idea" of the players they want to keep. That such decisions have been made comes as no surprise given the amount of time the Vikings have had to analyze any situation that might happen when the work stoppage is done.
    "Our history has been to keep our young guys, especially trying to come out of their first contracts [as well as] get those guys," Spielman said Wednesday while playing in the team's charity golf tournament that benefits the Vikings Children's Fund at Rush Creek in Maple Grove. "I think that’s the top priority and then we’ll kind of see where everything else falls in place.
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/123557784.html

    It's the labor dispute and lack of a collective bargaining agreement that leads the Vikings down this path.
    The Vikings know what they are doing and are prepared for it.
    The loss of Birk involves a different time and context, and though an obvious mistake, bears no relevance to the current free agency situation.
    I said that Matt didn't fit the ZB scheme and was continually blitzed up the middle. Not just 2 plays my friend.
    You consistently harped on his inability to move, his slowness and the fact he couldn't pull anymore. The snap to TJ's feet in the wild card game vs. the eagles sealed it for him.
    Red = Doesn't fit the scheme.
    And yet the cement footed Cook was good enough for you. What a double standard.......

  7. #27
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1099300
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099262
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1099244
    I think Marr is right. You don't let your players hit the open market. It's bad business.

    And several of the players you listed will have new deals. It's the same thing that happened to Birk that most of your guys didn't want back. The Ravens were happy to add him and now AD can't find an open hole even if he had a handful of hundreds in a strip club.
    If you were talking to me I have to say I have the utmost respect for your opinion on this board and think you are one of PP.O's most valuable assets. But in this case you seem confused.

    Marr was the guy that said Birk was washed up and needed to go. He, like a few others saw 2 delayed blitzes come up the middle untouched by Birk, and blamed it on him.

    Truth was, Birk was engaged on his man at the time and the blitzer was Peterson's responsibility.

    Birk was starting to get pushed around a bit by some of the big nose tackles, and drafting a stud center would have been fine.
    But trying to replace him with a late round draft pick was foolish.

    Virtually nobody here wanted to see Birk go, except Marr.

    As far as this group of free agents, the Vikings know who they want to keep, and have a plan if that doesn't work out.

    The Vikings will have a long list of free agents to deal with when the NFL lockout finally does end, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman said team officials have "a pretty good idea" of the players they want to keep. That such decisions have been made comes as no surprise given the amount of time the Vikings have had to analyze any situation that might happen when the work stoppage is done.
    "Our history has been to keep our young guys, especially trying to come out of their first contracts [as well as] get those guys," Spielman said Wednesday while playing in the team's charity golf tournament that benefits the Vikings Children's Fund at Rush Creek in Maple Grove. "I think that’s the top priority and then we’ll kind of see where everything else falls in place.
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/123557784.html

    It's the labor dispute and lack of a collective bargaining agreement that leads the Vikings down this path.
    The Vikings know what they are doing and are prepared for it.
    The loss of Birk involves a different time and context, and though an obvious mistake, bears no relevance to the current free agency situation.
    Oh I'm aware of Marr's contempt for all things Birk ever since he decided to have surgery instead of playing through Hernia induced pain. I was agreeing to the notion that you don't let guys hit the open market. Regardless of the labor situation, Letting two guys in their mid twenties hit the market is a lose lose. In fact, have you noticed that we are the only team loosing two top teir FA in their prime?
    Good post. You are right. I have not been able to figure out why they let those two get to the open market and would expect they have their reasons.
    I expect them to open the wallet for Rice if his hip is ok. But I sense they don't want Ray for some reason.
    They also have to deal with greenway and possibly Peterson soon.

    There has been some speculation that the amount of money they are spending to get a stadium has reduced their ability to sign large contracts.

    If that is true, the team will suffer.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1099316
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099269
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099267
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099266
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099262
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1099244
    I think Marr is right. You don't let your players hit the open market. It's bad business.

    And several of the players you listed will have new deals. It's the same thing that happened to Birk that most of your guys didn't want back. The Ravens were happy to add him and now AD can't find an open hole even if he had a handful of hundreds in a strip club.
    If you were talking to me I have to say I have the utmost respect for your opinion on this board and think you are one of PP.O's most valuable assets. But in this case you seem confused.

    Marr was the guy that said Birk was washed up and needed to go. He, like a few others saw 2 delayed blitzes come up the middle untouched by Birk, and blamed it on him.

    Truth was, Birk was engaged on his man at the time and the blitzer was Peterson's responsibility.

    Birk was starting to get pushed around a bit by some of the big nose tackles, and drafting a stud center would have been fine.
    But trying to replace him with a late round draft pick was foolish.

    Virtually nobody here wanted to see Birk go, except Marr.

    As far as this group of free agents, the Vikings know who they want to keep, and have a plan if that doesn't work out.

    The Vikings will have a long list of free agents to deal with when the NFL lockout finally does end, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman said team officials have "a pretty good idea" of the players they want to keep. That such decisions have been made comes as no surprise given the amount of time the Vikings have had to analyze any situation that might happen when the work stoppage is done.
    "Our history has been to keep our young guys, especially trying to come out of their first contracts [as well as] get those guys," Spielman said Wednesday while playing in the team's charity golf tournament that benefits the Vikings Children's Fund at Rush Creek in Maple Grove. "I think that’s the top priority and then we’ll kind of see where everything else falls in place.
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/123557784.html

    It's the labor dispute and lack of a collective bargaining agreement that leads the Vikings down this path.
    The Vikings know what they are doing and are prepared for it.
    The loss of Birk involves a different time and context, and though an obvious mistake, bears no relevance to the current free agency situation.
    I said that Matt didn't fit the ZB scheme and was continually blitzed up the middle. Not just 2 plays my friend.
    You consistently harped on his inability to move, his slowness and the fact he couldn't pull anymore. The snap to TJ's feet in the wild card game vs. the eagles sealed it for him.
    Red = Doesn't fit the scheme.
    And yet the cement footed Cook was good enough for you. What a double standard.......
    Don't confuse my resistance for hacking on a young kid put into a situation he wasn't suited for as a acknowledgement of him being good enough for me.

    I did not like Cook at T. But I blame the coaching staff for running him ou there cause they didn't have anyone better, not the kid.

    In no way can that be considered a double standard, unless of course your looking to hard.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Chazz" #1099309
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099265
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099241
    http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/6/21/2236059/is-sidney-rice-damaged-goods

    Based on my sources, Rice will be hard-pressed to get a big guarantee, and #Vikings are willing to compete with incentives/escalators.
    They had Casserly on last night. He said that the FA market will be just like it was last year and the year before and the year before......

    1 Week of flurry with the top guys getting signed right away and they will get top dollar. Teams already have done their research on the ones they are targeting and will get them in for physicals/visits. Rice was mentioned as one of those.

    What will change is the second tier guys. They will probably get their best deal from their home club because there won't be enough time to go on visists.

    Rice is not considered a second tier guy regardless of the injury history. Most believe last years "Injury" was nothing more than him protecting himself for a big payday this year.

    If that is the case, do you really want a guy on your team who will take an entire year off to "protect himself for a big payday"? Besides, if he is so good he would of never had a problem reproducing his numbers and would likely be looking at a bigger payday.
    Nope, and thats why I wanted them to target Jackson instead of Rice. Not sure thats going to happen now.

    Course the same could be said of Jackson as well though.

    In the end, teams should keep their talent happy when they deserve to be kept happy. Teams that don't will then start to loose more than just one player my friend. The other talent will then start to question the organizations commitment to winning
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
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    Re: Vikings Should Have Cap Space To Re-Sign Rice

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099474
    Quote Originally Posted by "Chazz" #1099309
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099265
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1099241
    http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/6/21/2236059/is-sidney-rice-damaged-goods

    Based on my sources, Rice will be hard-pressed to get a big guarantee, and #Vikings are willing to compete with incentives/escalators.
    They had Casserly on last night. He said that the FA market will be just like it was last year and the year before and the year before......

    1 Week of flurry with the top guys getting signed right away and they will get top dollar. Teams already have done their research on the ones they are targeting and will get them in for physicals/visits. Rice was mentioned as one of those.

    What will change is the second tier guys. They will probably get their best deal from their home club because there won't be enough time to go on visists.

    Rice is not considered a second tier guy regardless of the injury history. Most believe last years "Injury" was nothing more than him protecting himself for a big payday this year.

    If that is the case, do you really want a guy on your team who will take an entire year off to "protect himself for a big payday"? Besides, if he is so good he would of never had a problem reproducing his numbers and would likely be looking at a bigger payday.
    Nope, and thats why I wanted them to target Jackson instead of Rice. Not sure thats going to happen now.

    Course the same could be said of Jackson as well though.

    In the end, teams should keep their talent happy when they deserve to be kept happy. Teams that don't will then start to loose more than just one player my friend. The other talent will then start to question the organizations commitment to winning
    Just to be clear, when you say "Jackson", are you referring to DeSean ?

    Caine

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