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  1. #11
    vikes2456's Avatar
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Hmmm.....despite critisism from others, I have been stating that the scheme needs to change to cater to the players strengths.

    But have they really changed or have the youngsters (McCauley, Griffing, Gordon) gotten better with time to open the playbook up a bit more allowing for the ball hawks to ad lib a bit?....... :
    Nope. They adjusted it.
    :P

    Call it opening up the playbook if you must, but it's a look we haven't seen so far.
    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.

    That isn't changing the scheme, that is opening up the playbook and revealing more of the scheme.
    ;D
    ...and wouldn't that be considered a change?? We will continue to open up the playbook as the players improve, and will tweek the scheme catering to their strengths.
    Side note, I think we all need to give some credit to Charles Gordon, he's been working his way up the latter and I hope he can only continue to improve

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    "vikes2456" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Hmmm.....despite critisism from others, I have been stating that the scheme needs to change to cater to the players strengths.

    But have they really changed or have the youngsters (McCauley, Griffing, Gordon) gotten better with time to open the playbook up a bit more allowing for the ball hawks to ad lib a bit?....... :
    Nope. They adjusted it.
    :P

    Call it opening up the playbook if you must, but it's a look we haven't seen so far.
    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.

    That isn't changing the scheme, that is opening up the playbook and revealing more of the scheme.

    ;D
    ...and wouldn't that be considered a change?? We will continue to open up the playbook as the players improve, and will tweek the scheme catering to their strengths.
    Side note, I think we all need to give some credit to Charles Gordon, he's been working his way up the latter and I hope he can only continue to improve
    Two things.

    1.
    Gordon got my game ball last week.
    I think he is playing great.

    2.
    A scheme change means they scrap the scheme and go to something different.
    In this case it isn't a change IMHO.


    The only scheme that has been changed is what Leslie brought to the Cover 2 this year.
    He scrapped what didn't work for Tomlin, put his own twist to it and that is what we are seeing.

    Bottom line up front, the scheme has always been there, at least since our new D-coord got here, the stuff we have been seeing over the past 5 or 6 weeks has just waiting to be used.
    As the players get more reps and start to execute what they are currently doing, more and more of the scheme is revealed.
    Again, not a change, but an addition to what they have already shown.

    Thats why I keep giving props to the players.
    I think they are finally getting what the coaches have been selling since the beginning of the year.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
    patistheman's Avatar
    patistheman is offline Starter
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    My question is why did we blitz the crap out of Rivers, rush 3 and sometimes 2 against the packers, blitz the raiders a little more and then go to blitzing the crap out of Eli?
    Obviously the heavy blitz is working very well for us, why did we ever go away from it against the packers.
    As I heard Moose say yesterday even if it doest work right away just take the lumps when you get burned but don't go away from it because good things happen for our defense when we blitz.


    I have also noticed that when we blitz Sharper and Smith don't drop into their deep cover two zones, they are up more in the middle of the field where they each made a pick ( not smiths TD his first one) and had a couple passes broken up also.
    I think they play better in that spot of the field where they have more oportunities to make plays.
    Just an observation and opinion.

    I also saw a great pass rush from the front four after the last INT, and it was all backup lineman, Johson, Robison and James, I didnt get a good look at to see who the other tackle was it may have been Williams because he was in on the next series again.
    I was very happy with the pressure we could get without the blitz.
    I have to give props to Udeze, he has been playing great all year and getting pressure on a pretty consistent basis, especially compared to last year.

  4. #14
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikes2456" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=40006.msg679645#msg679645 date=1196084392]
    Hmmm.....despite critisism from others, I have been stating that the scheme needs to change to cater to the players strengths.

    But have they really changed or have the youngsters (McCauley, Griffing, Gordon) gotten better with time to open the playbook up a bit more allowing for the ball hawks to ad lib a bit?....... :
    Nope. They adjusted it.
    :P

    Call it opening up the playbook if you must, but it's a look we haven't seen so far.
    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.

    That isn't changing the scheme, that is opening up the playbook and revealing more of the scheme.

    ;D
    ...and wouldn't that be considered a change?? We will continue to open up the playbook as the players improve, and will tweek the scheme catering to their strengths.
    Side note, I think we all need to give some credit to Charles Gordon, he's been working his way up the latter and I hope he can only continue to improve
    Two things.

    1.
    Gordon got my game ball last week.
    I think he is playing great.

    2.
    A scheme change means they scrap the scheme and go to something different.
    In this case it isn't a change IMHO.


    The only scheme that has been changed is what Leslie brought to the Cover 2 this year.
    He scrapped what didn't work for Tomlin, put his own twist to it and that is what we are seeing.

    Bottom line up front, the scheme has always been there, at least since our new D-coord got here, the stuff we have been seeing over the past 5 or 6 weeks has just waiting to be used.
    As the players get more reps and start to execute what they are currently doing, more and more of the scheme is revealed.
    Again, not a change, but an addition to what they have already shown.

    Thats why I keep giving props to the players.
    I think they are finally getting what the coaches have been selling since the beginning of the year.

    ;D
    [/quote]

    C'mon Marrdriezie!!!...

    While i'll give you the scheme'ing hasnt changed i.e. basic cover-2 scheme... the playcalling definitely has.. and when people say scheme, referring to the playcalling or game-planning... that is what has changed...

    So in comparison to some of the other games this year, we have definitely blitzed alot more and played a lot more man coverage... and stuck to it for most of the game...

    whether it's confidence or Frazier said Eff-it!!! or both... the last few games have been different in terms of what we've been doing.... we're not rushing just 4 and dropping everyone else into coverage everytime. like we used to...

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikes2456" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=40006.msg679665#msg679665 date=1196085806]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=40006.msg679645#msg679645 date=1196084392]
    Hmmm.....despite critisism from others, I have been stating that the scheme needs to change to cater to the players strengths.

    But have they really changed or have the youngsters (McCauley, Griffing, Gordon) gotten better with time to open the playbook up a bit more allowing for the ball hawks to ad lib a bit?....... :
    Nope. They adjusted it.
    :P

    Call it opening up the playbook if you must, but it's a look we haven't seen so far.
    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.

    That isn't changing the scheme, that is opening up the playbook and revealing more of the scheme.

    ;D
    ...and wouldn't that be considered a change?? We will continue to open up the playbook as the players improve, and will tweek the scheme catering to their strengths.
    Side note, I think we all need to give some credit to Charles Gordon, he's been working his way up the latter and I hope he can only continue to improve
    Two things.

    1.
    Gordon got my game ball last week.
    I think he is playing great.

    2.
    A scheme change means they scrap the scheme and go to something different.
    In this case it isn't a change IMHO.


    The only scheme that has been changed is what Leslie brought to the Cover 2 this year.
    He scrapped what didn't work for Tomlin, put his own twist to it and that is what we are seeing.

    Bottom line up front, the scheme has always been there, at least since our new D-coord got here, the stuff we have been seeing over the past 5 or 6 weeks has just waiting to be used.
    As the players get more reps and start to execute what they are currently doing, more and more of the scheme is revealed.
    Again, not a change, but an addition to what they have already shown.

    Thats why I keep giving props to the players.
    I think they are finally getting what the coaches have been selling since the beginning of the year.

    ;D
    [/quote]

    C'mon Marrdriezie!!!...

    While i'll give you the scheme'ing hasnt changed i.e. basic cover-2 scheme... the playcalling definitely has.. and when people say scheme, referring to the playcalling or game-planning... that is what has changed...

    So in comparison to some of the other games this year, we have definitely blitzed alot more and played a lot more man coverage... and stuck to it for most of the game...

    whether it's confidence or Frazier said Eff-it!!! or both... the last few games have been different in terms of what we've been doing.... we're not rushing just 4 and dropping everyone else into coverage everytime. like we used to...
    [/quote]

    Marrdriezie.........Thats a new one my friend.
    ;D

    A wise man said this within this very same thread......

    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.
    We have been using the LB'rs in an effort to get a pass rush since the Lions game/loss.
    Probably before that however, I can't remember, I shitcanned my notes for the first to games.

    If you really look at it, that is why we are so bad against the pass (statistically) because we vacate the layer in our defense that is normally covered by at least the MLB and one OLB.

    During the SD game, we used a LB (Chad) to shadow Gates thus nulifying that threat, and blitzed the other two in a kindof run blitz scheme.

    During the GB game we did the same package, with our LB'rs running up to the line and then dropping back or running up to the line and keep coming.
    Unfortunately Lord Favre was fooled.
    Same scheme, different result.


    Again, a scheme change to me is when the coaching staff says F-it, the cover 2 isn't working I am going to Man-to-man or the ZB scheme isn't working I am going to traditional Man blocking schemes.
    That, to date, hasn't happened.

    On O we are still predominatly ZB during running plays and Man-Man on passing plays.
    On D we are still predominantly a Cover 2, base 4-3 with a mix of 3-4 and alot of LB blitzing thrown in to make up for our lack of DL pass rush.

    Lets call it additions to the scheme if you will, however, I still see the same scheme, with new wrinkles added (via opening of the playbook) as the kids get more comfortable/experienced.


    (Key Note:
    Until we get a consistent pass rush from our front 4, we will get gashed by experienced QB's when we commit LB's to the Blitz package on a consistent basis.)

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikes2456" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=40006.msg679671#msg679671 date=1196086354]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=40006.msg679665#msg679665 date=1196085806]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=40006.msg679645#msg679645 date=1196084392]
    Hmmm.....despite critisism from others, I have been stating that the scheme needs to change to cater to the players strengths.

    But have they really changed or have the youngsters (McCauley, Griffing, Gordon) gotten better with time to open the playbook up a bit more allowing for the ball hawks to ad lib a bit?....... :
    Nope. They adjusted it.
    :P

    Call it opening up the playbook if you must, but it's a look we haven't seen so far.
    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.

    That isn't changing the scheme, that is opening up the playbook and revealing more of the scheme.

    ;D
    ...and wouldn't that be considered a change?? We will continue to open up the playbook as the players improve, and will tweek the scheme catering to their strengths.
    Side note, I think we all need to give some credit to Charles Gordon, he's been working his way up the latter and I hope he can only continue to improve
    Two things.

    1.
    Gordon got my game ball last week.
    I think he is playing great.

    2.
    A scheme change means they scrap the scheme and go to something different.
    In this case it isn't a change IMHO.


    The only scheme that has been changed is what Leslie brought to the Cover 2 this year.
    He scrapped what didn't work for Tomlin, put his own twist to it and that is what we are seeing.

    Bottom line up front, the scheme has always been there, at least since our new D-coord got here, the stuff we have been seeing over the past 5 or 6 weeks has just waiting to be used.
    As the players get more reps and start to execute what they are currently doing, more and more of the scheme is revealed.
    Again, not a change, but an addition to what they have already shown.

    Thats why I keep giving props to the players.
    I think they are finally getting what the coaches have been selling since the beginning of the year.

    ;D
    [/quote]

    C'mon Marrdriezie!!!...

    While i'll give you the scheme'ing hasnt changed i.e. basic cover-2 scheme... the playcalling definitely has.. and when people say scheme, referring to the playcalling or game-planning... that is what has changed...

    So in comparison to some of the other games this year, we have definitely blitzed alot more and played a lot more man coverage... and stuck to it for most of the game...

    whether it's confidence or Frazier said Eff-it!!! or both... the last few games have been different in terms of what we've been doing.... we're not rushing just 4 and dropping everyone else into coverage everytime. like we used to...
    [/quote]

    Marrdriezie.........Thats a new one my friend.

    ;D

    A wise man said this within this very same thread......

    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.
    We have been using the LB'rs in an effort to get a pass rush since the Lions game/loss.
    Probably before that however, I can't remember, I shitcanned my notes for the first to games.

    If you really look at it, that is why we are so bad against the pass (statistically) because we vacate the layer in our defense that is normally covered by at least the MLB and one OLB.

    During the SD game, we used a LB (Chad) to shadow Gates thus nulifying that threat, and blitzed the other two in a kindof run blitz scheme.

    During the GB game we did the same package, with our LB'rs running up to the line and then dropping back or running up to the line and keep coming.
    Unfortunately Lord Favre was fooled.
    Same scheme, different result.


    Again, a scheme change to me is when the coaching staff says F-it, the cover 2 isn't working I am going to Man-to-man or the ZB scheme isn't working I am going to traditional Man blocking schemes.
    That, to date, hasn't happened.

    On O we are still predominatly ZB during running plays and Man-Man on passing plays.
    On D we are still predominantly a Cover 2, base 4-3 with a mix of 3-4 and alot of LB blitzing thrown in to make up for our lack of DL pass rush.

    Lets call it additions to the scheme if you will, however, I still see the same scheme, with new wrinkles added (via opening of the playbook) as the kids get more comfortable/experienced.


    (Key Note:
    Until we get a consistent pass rush from our front 4, we will get gashed by experienced QB's when we commit LB's to the Blitz package on a consistent basis.)


    [/quote]

    i agree with the front four pressure.. but i think if we've been successful with the "scheme" /playcalling/gameplan of yesterday, raiders, and chargers game... i saw we keep at it regardless...

    did you see the eagles game??
    they blitzed the heck out of brady and made him look completely human again... I think this can be done to pretty much any qb if you disguise it and time it right...

    I saw stay with it.. the change for some reason gives our guys more confidence and they play more opportunistic and seem to have a better bounce in their step when they call plays like they did today...

    obviously the other dropping 8 or 7 into coverage isnt' working.. bc qb's have all day to throw and will pick the zone apart.. i say let's stick with this way...

  7. #17
    vikesfargo's Avatar
    vikesfargo is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    Kitna ripped us in the first meeting of the year. I hope we can counter him and the Lions offense this time around.


    Go Vikings!

  8. #18
    Suick's Avatar
    Suick is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    Hummmmmm


    If the new scheme is to remove head from ass and play like they did yesterday.... I vote yes.
    I've been a Viking fan since I was just out of diapers, hopefully we get Super Bowl win before I go back in 'em.

  9. #19
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Hmmm.....despite critisism from others, I have been stating that the scheme needs to change to cater to the players strengths.

    But have they really changed or have the youngsters (McCauley, Griffing, Gordon) gotten better with time to open the playbook up a bit more allowing for the ball hawks to ad lib a bit?....... :
    Nope. They adjusted it.
    :P

    Call it opening up the playbook if you must, but it's a look we haven't seen so far.
    But we have.

    a.
    The linebackers have been doing the very same thing since the Lions loss. Only new wrinkle we saw yesterday was the safeties blitz more and the LB's dropped into coverage more.
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = opening up the play book.

    b.
    DT and DE have been dropping into coverage.
    My friend people on this very page were hacking on the coaching staff for doing it with Phat Pat against GB.
    What is the difference?
    QB experience.
    Same scheme, same wrinkle.


    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.

    That isn't changing the scheme, that is opening up the playbook and revealing more of the scheme.

    ;D
    Same scheme, new wrinkle = adjusting the scheme in my book. Opening up & letting the DB's have a little more freedom is also an adjustment to the scheme. I've never said the scheme changed completely. I've always maintained that the current scheme should be adjusted, tweaked (changed) to better cater to the players potential.

    Without ever seeing the playbook, how can you say with confidence that the playbook is just being opened up?

    Note Sharpers words;

    Vikings safety Darren Sharper joyfully proclaimed the defensive schemes changed
    He knows the playbook. Notice he states "the defensive schemes changed" & doesn't proclaim
    "the Vikings have opened the playbook"

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that you wouldn't give a 3rd grader a 12 grade level book.
    You would give him a 3rd grade book and gradually increase the corriculumn as thier experience level increases.
    In the same respect, you don't give a 12th grader a 3rd grade book, just because there is a new teacher.

    We do have veterans on defense.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #20
    PurplePowerPunch is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Viking's Sharper says defensive schemes have changed

    I wonder what took Frazier so long to adjust it up a little. Maybe it was the 34-0 beat down from the Slackers that woke him up.

    ALL DAY!!!

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