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  1. #11
    Minniman's Avatar
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    The Vikings DB's couldn't get it done under Frazier. It is part personnel and part scheme. When Frazier was hired as the head coach, the Vikings basically retained the same personnel and same scheme.

    Will that change if Frazier stays? Not likely. It is likely that Frazier does not even understand the problem.

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    And despite having the NFL's leading sacker, and probably in the top-10 or so overall, it's not our DB's fault, it's definitely the pass rush.....
    I see your still confused. Just another typical fan who only looks at sacks and thinks things are fine ....sigh..... I'll try one more time.

    Its our DT's, not our DE's.

    Watch a game for goodness sakes. All the teams do is go ahead and single a T up on JA (all by himself) and Rob and use their speed to push them deep/wide which allows the QB to step UP into a clean pocket.

    To stop that, our D-coord (or HC) is calling for additional help (i.e. a blitzing LB'r or S) which in most cases don't get there in time.

    Tim Ryan said it the other day, its crazy scarey how many sacks JA would get if we got any consistency out of our DT's when it comes to pocket pressure.

    All that aside, then you have to look at our run defense. A cat put up 132 yards against us last week in a game that was a shoot out for cripes sake.

    Again, like they do against the pass rush, all they did was let the T's take the DE's wide and run right into the gaps that were left open. And if you look even harder you would have seen that the LB was caught up in a mess in the middle as he was trying to get to the QB that didn't have the ball.

    Something for you to watch this weekend. Pay close attention to how many times we see a mix of Guion and Ballard in there at DT especially with Griff at LDE. There is some promise there.

    Get me a 0 tech NT to play next to Kevin next year, have Griff drop 10-15 lbs, move him to the SAM, put Chad back at the WILL (who was the rocket scientist who moved him to the SAM this year) and I gaurantee a DB crew of Asher, Cook, Griff (nickle) and a Rookie for depth would be a fun defense to watch.

    Notice how I only added two new players?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
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    Its kinda hard to judge our secondary right now, the guys that are playing now are like 6th string guys, rooks and special teamers. I think Sapp is one of our better DB's right now, he is the only one playing with an attitude, he is a great nickel back, i hope he sticks around next year.

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    The Vikings DB's couldn't get it done under Frazier. It is part personnel and part scheme. When Frazier was hired as the head coach, the Vikings basically retained the same personnel and same scheme.

    Will that change if Frazier stays? Not likely. It is likely that Frazier does not even understand the problem.
    Although I agree that its mostly scheme, I think there is alot to be said about us continually running BACKUP DB's onto the field for a good share of the season.

    Aside from Cooks stupidity, one has to look at our DB's and wonder, are they to small for the scheme. My answer is no. Remember, we aren't asking them to "man up" against bigger guys and out physical them. We are asking them to stay behind them in their zones and hand them off if they leave a zone (with very little routing) and only make a tackle after the guy catches the ball.

    Back to my DT issue. Most teams leading tacklers are LB'rs or FS/SS who are built to tackle. How that happens is their Bigs in the middle eat up the blockers, seal the gaps and route runners to gaps being filled by LB'rs and S's.

    Not the Vikes. We ask our CB's to do alot of tackling and I think that is the reason we are always looking at Backups on the field this time of year.

    I think it would be a good research effort to see if I'm mistaken on that, but from what I've seen this year, I think I might be on to something.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Although I agree that its mostly scheme, I think there is alot to be said about us continually running BACKUP DB's onto the field for a good share of the season.

    Aside from Cooks stupidity, one has to look at our DB's and wonder, are they to small for the scheme. My answer is no. Remember, we aren't asking them to "man up" against bigger guys and out physical them. We are asking them to stay behind them in their zones and hand them off if they leave a zone (with very little routing) and only make a tackle after the guy catches the ball.

    Back to my DT issue. Most teams leading tacklers are LB'rs or FS/SS who are built to tackle. How that happens is their Bigs in the middle eat up the blockers, seal the gaps and route runners to gaps being filled by LB'rs and S's.

    Not the Vikes. We ask our CB's to do alot of tackling and I think that is the reason we are always looking at Backups on the field this time of year.

    I think it would be a good research effort to see if I'm mistaken on that, but from what I've seen this year, I think I might be on to something.
    Marty,
    New Years resolution.
    Less research, more fishing.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson14 View Post
    Its kinda hard to judge our secondary right now, the guys that are playing now are like 6th string guys, rooks and special teamers. I think Sapp is one of our better DB's right now, he is the only one playing with an attitude, he is a great nickel back, i hope he sticks around next year.
    Great point my friend.

    Just elaborated on that very thing in another thread. It seems to be a re-occuring theme as well. Atleast for the last 2 or 3 years.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    Marty,
    New Years resolution.
    Less research, more fishing.
    LOL, well played my friend. I'm gonna power wash my truck, ATV and boat this afternoon if its not to cold.

    Next thing is to take the bad batteries out of the boat and go get new ones I was going in to buy when I bought the new ATV instead.

    Can't fish until I get the batteries.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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