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  1. #21
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think fans that have followed the team or the NFL for a while and that try to understand the workings of the team have never argued the points.
    There will always be some myopic fans that base success on WRs, QBs and RBs and that's about it.

    The GM question is a good one.
    There is already a staff in place that rivals having the most folks on the payroll of any team in the NFL.
    Once you start putting too many administrative layers into the mix it can go awry.
    However, if each member of the staff has a clearly defined role it can function.
    You also have to have a group of people that are willing to follow the chain of command and that have mutual respect for each other and their personalities jive, at least on a professional level.
    I'm not a fan of having a GM unless the coaching staff feels they are overcommitted and their primary job responsibilities are faltering because of this.
    I totally agree but it's NOT the traditional model for a NFL franchise but many here and even the national media talks about how the Vikings have no general manager. My feeling is that if it's not broke, don't fix it. I think Wilf is the GM anyway!
    LOL
    He could make a good default GM because it appears that he is intelligent enough to let the guys that he hired do their jobs.
    They have a helluva lot more experience dealing with those facets of the team than Wilf does.
    My impression of Wilf though is that if the coaching staff needs another addition and they can justify it to him he will open up the check book.
    McCombs was the antithesis of Wilf and I'm glad he's back polishing cars in Texas.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  2. #22
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think this system will work with one exception (can't remember who asked me the question before) and that is what happens if Spielmen wants a guy, Chiller wants a guy and Studwell wants a guy. Who wins.

    I would think that if we had a GM in charge he would make that call. Right now I am not sure be believe Rick might have a final say based on his Job Title/Role -Responsibility.

    One think to consider though is that during the Foley incident, he obviously had the final vote.
    He, it appeared, didn't impress the owner with his decision making abilities and was fired.

    Shortly after hiring Rick, the owner came out several times saying that he will now get a bit more involved.

    With all that said, I believe the Owner will make those calls after hearing everyones side of the dispute/dicsussion.
    This question is largely unanswered and we all have our own opinions on how it plays out.
    My guess it that there is no way Wilf gets involved unless it is as a last resort.
    I think it plays out like in my original post:

    Childress: head hancho, relays strategies and team goals both short- and long-term.
    Spielman: finds guys to fit roles defined by Childress.
    Brzezinski: tells them what they can and cannot do based on coinage.
    Meaning that Childress has to effectively communicate what the needs positionwise and any specific strengths that he would like to see as far as physical/mental issues the player should have.
    Spielman and his staff find the folks that fit the needs.
    Brzezinski figures out the pros/cons of signing player X based on the short- and long-term cap issues.
    The discussion goes on and in an ideal world they come to a consensus.

    There will be times when a consensus is not reached, that's where we're speculating.
    If the 'draft spreadsheet' folks think they have a complicated system I'm guessing it is child's play compared to what the staff has at Winter Park.
    They go through scenarios and make a high-graded list based off the input of the Studwell-types.
    The bottom-line factors stay consistent (do they have character....) and the specifics of the athletes were defined by Childress and his assistants.
    Childress decides based on that input.
    However, during the draft itself, Spielman has the final say.
    He has all the notes from their previous discussions and he doesn't have time for a long discussion when they are on the clock.
    So, as I see it, Childress has the final say during the draft preparations and Spielman has the final say during the draft itself (using previous input).

    Yes, that is speculation.
    I just see it playing out that way.

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think this system will work with one exception (can't remember who asked me the question before) and that is what happens if Spielmen wants a guy, Chiller wants a guy and Studwell wants a guy. Who wins.

    I would think that if we had a GM in charge he would make that call. Right now I am not sure be believe Rick might have a final say based on his Job Title/Role -Responsibility.

    One think to consider though is that during the Foley incident, he obviously had the final vote.
    He, it appeared, didn't impress the owner with his decision making abilities and was fired.

    Shortly after hiring Rick, the owner came out several times saying that he will now get a bit more involved.

    With all that said, I believe the Owner will make those calls after hearing everyones side of the dispute/dicsussion.
    This question is largely unanswered and we all have our own opinions on how it plays out.
    My guess it that there is no way Wilf gets involved unless it is as a last resort.
    I think it plays out like in my original post:

    Childress: head hancho, relays strategies and team goals both short- and long-term.
    Spielman: finds guys to fit roles defined by Childress.
    Brzezinski: tells them what they can and cannot do based on coinage.
    Meaning that Childress has to effectively communicate what the needs positionwise and any specific strengths that he would like to see as far as physical/mental issues the player should have.
    Spielman and his staff find the folks that fit the needs.
    Brzezinski figures out the pros/cons of signing player X based on the short- and long-term cap issues.
    The discussion goes on and in an ideal world they come to a consensus.

    There will be times when a consensus is not reached, that's where we're speculating.
    If the 'draft spreadsheet' folks think they have a complicated system I'm guessing it is child's play compared to what the staff has at Winter Park.
    They go through scenarios and make a high-graded list based off the input of the Studwell-types.
    The bottom-line factors stay consistent (do they have character....) and the specifics of the athletes were defined by Childress and his assistants.
    Childress decides based on that input.
    However, during the draft itself, Spielman has the final say.
    He has all the notes from their previous discussions and he doesn't have time for a long discussion when they are on the clock.
    So, as I see it, Childress has the final say during the draft preparations and Spielman has the final say during the draft itself (using previous input).

    Yes, that is speculation.
    I just see it playing out that way.

    Another excellent post that I agree with you on except on minor note......

    I don't think it comes down to a decision on just one guy and that is what is so hard for most fans to comprehend. They probably, as you pointed out, agree on several players that would fit the bill and select the guy that is left when it comes thier turn especially in the later rounds.

    Were it comes a bit mirky is how all that would work out if say they had 3 guys targeted and 2 of the 3 guys went ahead of were they thought they were gonna go (i.e. the QB selections during the 2006 draft.) Do they move up or gamble that the guy will be there when it is thier turn.

    Again, all very fascinating and fun to speculate about.

    I would almost kill to get a chance to sit in the Vikes warroom so that I could get a chance to see thier (for that matter any teams) value boards/ranking process and scenarios (mocks) to see how that all flows.
    I am sure, even though some teams take different approaches, the overall concept must be pretty close to the same for all.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think this system will work with one exception (can't remember who asked me the question before) and that is what happens if Spielmen wants a guy, Chiller wants a guy and Studwell wants a guy. Who wins.

    I would think that if we had a GM in charge he would make that call. Right now I am not sure be believe Rick might have a final say based on his Job Title/Role -Responsibility.

    One think to consider though is that during the Foley incident, he obviously had the final vote.
    He, it appeared, didn't impress the owner with his decision making abilities and was fired.

    Shortly after hiring Rick, the owner came out several times saying that he will now get a bit more involved.

    With all that said, I believe the Owner will make those calls after hearing everyones side of the dispute/dicsussion.
    This question is largely unanswered and we all have our own opinions on how it plays out.
    My guess it that there is no way Wilf gets involved unless it is as a last resort.
    I think it plays out like in my original post:

    Childress: head hancho, relays strategies and team goals both short- and long-term.
    Spielman: finds guys to fit roles defined by Childress.
    Brzezinski: tells them what they can and cannot do based on coinage.
    Meaning that Childress has to effectively communicate what the needs positionwise and any specific strengths that he would like to see as far as physical/mental issues the player should have.
    Spielman and his staff find the folks that fit the needs.
    Brzezinski figures out the pros/cons of signing player X based on the short- and long-term cap issues.
    The discussion goes on and in an ideal world they come to a consensus.

    There will be times when a consensus is not reached, that's where we're speculating.
    If the 'draft spreadsheet' folks think they have a complicated system I'm guessing it is child's play compared to what the staff has at Winter Park.
    They go through scenarios and make a high-graded list based off the input of the Studwell-types.
    The bottom-line factors stay consistent (do they have character....) and the specifics of the athletes were defined by Childress and his assistants.
    Childress decides based on that input.
    However, during the draft itself, Spielman has the final say.
    He has all the notes from their previous discussions and he doesn't have time for a long discussion when they are on the clock.
    So, as I see it, Childress has the final say during the draft preparations and Spielman has the final say during the draft itself (using previous input).

    Yes, that is speculation.
    I just see it playing out that way.

    Another excellent post that I agree with you on except on minor note......

    I don't think it comes down to a decision on just one guy and that is what is so hard for most fans to comprehend. They probably, as you pointed out, agree on several players that would fit the bill and select the guy that is left when it comes thier turn especially in the later rounds.

    Were it comes a bit mirky is how all that would work out if say they had 3 guys targeted and 2 of the 3 guys went ahead of were they thought they were gonna go (i.e. the QB selections during the 2006 draft.) Do they move up or gamble that the guy will be there when it is thier turn.

    Again, all very fascinating and fun to speculate about.

    I would almost kill to get a chance to sit in the Vikes warroom so that I could get a chance to see thier (for that matter any teams) value boards/ranking process and scenarios (mocks) to see how that all flows.
    I am sure, even though some teams take different approaches, the overall concept must be pretty close to the same for all.
    Maybe we are reading too much into it.
    They might just be sitting around and say, 'shit, the draft is today'.
    Then run to the Internet and grab a fantasy football mock from pp.o and check off players already nabbed and grab the highest player on the list and then change their strategies based on who they picked up.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  5. #25
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    Maybe we are reading too much into it.
    They might just be sitting around and say, 'pooh, the draft is today'.
    Then run to the Internet and grab a fantasy football mock from pp.o and check off players already nabbed and grab the highest player on the list and then change their strategies based on who they picked up.
    Your probably right.

    Heck for that matter they might just be calling friends and asking....Who is your favorite player coming out this year.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    Getting back to Cojomay's question about hiring a GM.
    Check this site out:

    http://www.sportsmanagementworldwide.com/coursedescription_footballgm.asp

    The Football General Manager and Scouting Course is an 8 week online course that offers cutting edge theories on how to develop a career in professional or collegiate Football. The Football General Manager and Scouting Course will cover issues including football operations, team management, scouting talent, player personnel, cutting edge ways of scouting, NFL traditional scouting techniques, studying football on paper, statistical analysis and other essential tools of modern general managers of professional and collegiate football organizations...

    ...Teams that Trestman has worked for:
    Miami Dolphins
    Oakland Raiders
    Arizona Cardinals
    Detriot Lions
    San Franciso 49ers
    Minnesota Vikings
    Cleveland Browns
    Tampa Bay Bucs
    University of Miami Florida
    NC State University...
    So, it appears the Vikings have a GM that is cyber trained with a short-course.
    Wilf is the GM.
    8)
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    Individuals will learn:

    · Responsibilities of a Football General Manager

    · Football contracts and player negotiation

    · Football Scouting player evaluation; body type, mental makeup, playing ability, physical tools

    · Learn to identify players who will succeed in the NFL

    · College Scouting and rating college talent as it pertains to the NFL draft

    · Traditional Football scouting vs. new high tech scouting

    · Techniques to evaluating the college all star games

    · Relationships between the NFL, NFL Europe, AFL and CFL leagues

    · Player contracts, player trades and acquisitions

    · Football franchise and stadium operations

    · How to run the Front Office of a football franchise

    · NFL War Room Strategies

    · Capology & team contract negotiations

    · Landing Quality players through free agency and trades

    · Negotiations with agents and players

    · NFL Draft combine evaluation; Shuttle, Vertical Jump, L-Cone, Forty & Broad Jump

    · The making of a football scouting report

    · The language of football scouting

    · NFL Draft preparation and free agent signings

    · Cap value of a player
    And I thought the Head Coach did all of that including coaching the players.
    Man was I off the mark.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    Nice Work!
    GO TEAM!!
    It seems as though everyone fits their position well...

    Childress defines the scheme, and the needs to execute it, and ends up being, the "Face of the Front Office" for the most part...

    Brezinski keeps the dollars making sense...

    Spielman has the experience and contacts (and possibly inside info on who others are looking at) to swing deals that work!


    I'm not sure anyone of them really has a final say over the others, but more of a check and balance like you guys implied.


    The coaches evaluate the talent they have and the progress made this year.
    Needs are defined with parameters (size, speed, experience etc).
    The scouts put together a list of guys that fit.
    Brez looks at the $$$$ and how that fits with the rest of the plan.
    They all get together and discuss the remaining, narrowed down options and prioritize them, and then, it is up to the Players and their agents as to what gets done.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Nice Work!
    GO TEAM!!
    It seems as though everyone fits their position well...

    Childress defines the scheme, and the needs to execute it, and ends up being, the "Face of the Front Office" for the most part...

    Brezinski keeps the dollars making sense...

    Spielman has the experience and contacts (and possibly inside info on who others are looking at) to swing deals that work!


    I'm not sure anyone of them really has a final say over the others, but more of a check and balance like you guys implied.


    The coaches evaluate the talent they have and the progress made this year.
    Needs are defined with parameters (size, speed, experience etc).
    The scouts put together a list of guys that fit.
    Brez looks at the $$$$ and how that fits with the rest of the plan.
    They all get together and discuss the remaining, narrowed down options and prioritize them, and then, it is up to the Players and their agents as to what gets done.
    That is a pretty damn good recap and how I elieve it all works.
    Great stuff my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    Getting back to Cojomay's question about hiring a GM.
    Check this site out:

    http://www.sportsmanagementworldwide.com/coursedescription_footballgm.asp

    The Football General Manager and Scouting Course is an 8 week online course that offers cutting edge theories on how to develop a career in professional or collegiate Football. The Football General Manager and Scouting Course will cover issues including football operations, team management, scouting talent, player personnel, cutting edge ways of scouting, NFL traditional scouting techniques, studying football on paper, statistical analysis and other essential tools of modern general managers of professional and collegiate football organizations...

    ...Teams that Trestman has worked for:
    Miami Dolphins
    Oakland Raiders
    Arizona Cardinals
    Detriot Lions
    San Franciso 49ers
    Minnesota Vikings
    Cleveland Browns
    Tampa Bay Bucs
    University of Miami Florida
    NC State University...
    So, it appears the Vikings have a GM that is cyber trained with a short-course.
    Wilf is the GM.
    8)
    Gezzzzz Marr, you always wanted to sit in the "War Room" and see how it is done. Just take this course and you'll have it all figured out.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

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