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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "The" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [size=4pt]Disclaimer: there is nothing new or insightful in this post.[/size]
    Many of them spend the majority of their waking hours at a mystical warehouse called Winter Park...
    mystical warehouse, eh?


    Good on you, Proph. I'm a big fan of Brzezinski as well. And Spielman is, no doubt, suspect. Still he seems to have done a bang-up job thus far.

    I honestly doubt Childress has a whole lot of time to really evaluate players as so many seem to suggest. Sure, once players are on the field he undoubtedly has a lot of say. But it's funny how when people complain about one player or another sucking jiggly butt, these same people rarely offer anyone currently on our squad that would be a better fit. More often it's: let's make a trade of Herschel Walker proportions, giving up half our squad for one player that will apparently cure all ills. What a bunch of garbage.
    Two things.


    First.
    This is an excellent topic/idea or a thread.
    Great first post.

    Second.
    You are correct and make an excellent point.
    The only thing that I see that Proph left off was the two legs of the scouting staff under Studwell (College) and George Patton (Pro/Vet) and thier roles in finding/evaluating talent to fit the scheme.

    Although the Chiller and his coaching staff are busy watching tape now on players, that tape is provided by Spielmans scouting staff the is run by these two guys.

    Again, the coaches don't scout the players, the scouts do.

    Paton’s primary focus will be to coordinate scouting and personnel functions within the Vikings Pro Scouting Department and lend his expertise to the College Scouting Department as they prepare for the annual NFL Draft. Paton will work closely with his former Miami and Chicago protege, Vikings Vice President of Player Personnel Rick Spielman.
    Studwell was named to his current post as Director of College Scouting in April 2002. His new responsibilities include overseeing all college scouting efforts and preparation for the annual NFL Draft.
    http://www.vikings.com/TeamFrontOffice.aspx

    I love this kindof stuff.
    Again, a great thread.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "digital420" wrote:
    ... i hope this finalizes the fact that he's not making solo decisions. it's a team effort of all 3 and credit/criticism should be viewed as such.
    Like most threads of this nature, they typically end up preaching to the choir.
    The people that already understand the process read it and the people that choose to ignore the process won't read it anyway.
    The fun of dealing with fanatics.
    Its still fun to talk real stuff instead of the typical "Hey lets go get this guy cause he is now free, who cares if his last team let him go because he can't stay healthy or he is to damn old to play anymore" threads.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "The" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [size=4pt]Disclaimer: there is nothing new or insightful in this post.[/size]
    Many of them spend the majority of their waking hours at a mystical warehouse called Winter Park...
    mystical warehouse, eh?


    Good on you, Proph. I'm a big fan of Brzezinski as well. And Spielman is, no doubt, suspect. Still he seems to have done a bang-up job thus far.

    I honestly doubt Childress has a whole lot of time to really evaluate players as so many seem to suggest. Sure, once players are on the field he undoubtedly has a lot of say. But it's funny how when people complain about one player or another sucking jiggly butt, these same people rarely offer anyone currently on our squad that would be a better fit. More often it's: let's make a trade of Herschel Walker proportions, giving up half our squad for one player that will apparently cure all ills. What a bunch of garbage.
    Two things.


    First.
    This is an excellent topic/idea or a thread.
    Great first post.

    Second.
    You are correct and make an excellent point.
    The only thing that I see that Proph left off was the two legs of the scouting staff under Studwell (College) and George Patton (Pro/Vet) and thier roles in finding/evaluating talent to fit the scheme.

    Although the Chiller and his coaching staff are busy watching tape now on players, that tape is provided by Spielmans scouting staff the is run by these two guys.

    Again, the coaches don't scout the players, the scouts do.

    Paton’s primary focus will be to coordinate scouting and personnel functions within the Vikings Pro Scouting Department and lend his expertise to the College Scouting Department as they prepare for the annual NFL Draft. Paton will work closely with his former Miami and Chicago protege, Vikings Vice President of Player Personnel Rick Spielman.
    Studwell was named to his current post as Director of College Scouting in April 2002. His new responsibilities include overseeing all college scouting efforts and preparation for the annual NFL Draft.
    http://www.vikings.com/TeamFrontOffice.aspx

    I love this kindof stuff.
    Again, a great thread.
    I left them off intentionally, with the idea that Spielman is the man in charge for scouting.
    Although I am a firm believer that without Studwell Spielman wouldn't look so great.
    Studwell is a much underrated part of the stability in the scouting staff.
    Paton is also a minion of Spielman's.
    People like to blame Childress for everything, the same flow of logic would follow with the scouting staff where Spielman would get the blame or credit for recommending prospects to the team.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "The" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [size=4pt]Disclaimer: there is nothing new or insightful in this post.[/size]
    Many of them spend the majority of their waking hours at a mystical warehouse called Winter Park...
    mystical warehouse, eh?


    Good on you, Proph. I'm a big fan of Brzezinski as well. And Spielman is, no doubt, suspect. Still he seems to have done a bang-up job thus far.

    I honestly doubt Childress has a whole lot of time to really evaluate players as so many seem to suggest. Sure, once players are on the field he undoubtedly has a lot of say. But it's funny how when people complain about one player or another sucking jiggly butt, these same people rarely offer anyone currently on our squad that would be a better fit. More often it's: let's make a trade of Herschel Walker proportions, giving up half our squad for one player that will apparently cure all ills. What a bunch of garbage.
    I don't think it was that mystical warehouse....or was it?

    My personal opinion is that Scott Studwell makes Spielman look much better than he actually is.
    I agree when it comes to having the talent lined up. Hell even Foley couldn't screw it up with respect to picking talented players he just picked them in the wrong place or missed out on guys.

    What I think Rick brings to the table is a actual knowledge of how to run a draft as he actually made some solid moves last year that impressed me.
    Additionally, he did demonstrate restraint with respect to running amuck in a over priced/under talented FA market last year.

    We haven't had that type of leadership in the front office for awhile. (IMHO of course)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "The" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [size=4pt]Disclaimer: there is nothing new or insightful in this post.[/size]
    Many of them spend the majority of their waking hours at a mystical warehouse called Winter Park...
    mystical warehouse, eh?


    Good on you, Proph. I'm a big fan of Brzezinski as well. And Spielman is, no doubt, suspect. Still he seems to have done a bang-up job thus far.

    I honestly doubt Childress has a whole lot of time to really evaluate players as so many seem to suggest. Sure, once players are on the field he undoubtedly has a lot of say. But it's funny how when people complain about one player or another sucking jiggly butt, these same people rarely offer anyone currently on our squad that would be a better fit. More often it's: let's make a trade of Herschel Walker proportions, giving up half our squad for one player that will apparently cure all ills. What a bunch of garbage.
    I don't think it was that mystical warehouse....or was it?

    My personal opinion is that Scott Studwell makes Spielman look much better than he actually is.
    I agree when it comes to having the talent lined up. Hell even Foley couldn't screw it up with respect to picking talented players he just picked them in the wrong place or missed out on guys.

    What I think Rick brings to the table is a actual knowledge of how to run a draft as he actually made some solid moves last year that impressed me.
    Additionally, he did demonstrate restraint with respect to running amuck in a over priced/under talented FA market last year.

    We haven't had that type of leadership in the front office for awhile. (IMHO of course)
    I started off way anti-Spielman after watching some of his moves with the Dolphins.
    He did some average to slightly above average work earlier in his career.
    It seems to me that he is at the point in his professional career and is surrounded by the correct cast of characters so his strengths are being highlighted, rather than his weaknesses.
    An analogy would be something like Tice, he was thrown to the wolves as HC too early in his career....he made a great assistant or line coach, but wasn't ready for the HC job.
    I'm hoping that this is the case with Spielman, he has had damn near two decades of experience and has learned along the way and now that he is surrounded by the likes of Brzezinski, Childress, Studwell, Patton, etc. he makes a good team member.
    The team aspect of the game goes beyond the players, the complexities of FA/Draft and the cap and the integration of those concepts into the overall team's mission is best done by a competent team.
    I think the team is in place and is strong and there is also an owner that is willing to spend the coin on any additional pieces of the staff that may be warranted.
    The future looks bright in this aspect for the first time in a long time.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "The" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [size=4pt]Disclaimer: there is nothing new or insightful in this post.[/size]
    Many of them spend the majority of their waking hours at a mystical warehouse called Winter Park...
    mystical warehouse, eh?


    Good on you, Proph. I'm a big fan of Brzezinski as well. And Spielman is, no doubt, suspect. Still he seems to have done a bang-up job thus far.

    I honestly doubt Childress has a whole lot of time to really evaluate players as so many seem to suggest. Sure, once players are on the field he undoubtedly has a lot of say. But it's funny how when people complain about one player or another sucking jiggly butt, these same people rarely offer anyone currently on our squad that would be a better fit. More often it's: let's make a trade of Herschel Walker proportions, giving up half our squad for one player that will apparently cure all ills. What a bunch of garbage.
    I don't think it was that mystical warehouse....or was it?

    My personal opinion is that Scott Studwell makes Spielman look much better than he actually is.
    I agree when it comes to having the talent lined up. Hell even Foley couldn't screw it up with respect to picking talented players he just picked them in the wrong place or missed out on guys.

    What I think Rick brings to the table is a actual knowledge of how to run a draft as he actually made some solid moves last year that impressed me.
    Additionally, he did demonstrate restraint with respect to running amuck in a over priced/under talented FA market last year.

    We haven't had that type of leadership in the front office for awhile. (IMHO of course)
    I started off way anti-Spielman after watching some of his moves with the Dolphins.
    He did some average to slightly above average work earlier in his career.
    It seems to me that he is at the point in his professional career and is surrounded by the correct cast of characters so his strengths are being highlighted, rather than his weaknesses.
    An analogy would be something like Tice, he was thrown to the wolves as HC too early in his career....he made a great assistant or line coach, but wasn't ready for the HC job.
    I'm hoping that this is the case with Spielman, he has had gol 'darnit near two decades of experience and has learned along the way and now that he is surrounded by the likes of Brzezinski, Childress, Studwell, Patton, etc. he makes a good team member.
    The team aspect of the game goes beyond the players, the complexities of FA/Draft and the cap and the integration of those concepts into the overall team's mission is best done by a competent team.
    I think the team is in place and is strong and there is also an owner that is willing to spend the coin on any additional pieces of the staff that may be warranted.
    The future looks bright in this aspect for the first time in a long time.
    You see, I knew there was a front office kindof mind working behind your screen antics.

    ;D

    As to the bolded part, I couldn't agree more and is what I preach everytime I see a poster say something crazy like "Our team is getting older and the window to win is getting smaller".


    That is a outdated concept now that we have a front office that works well together and makes sound decisions for this organization that will keep us competitive for years to come much like we saw back in the days of glory.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think this system will work with one exception (can't remember who asked me the question before) and that is what happens if Spielmen wants a guy, Chiller wants a guy and Studwell wants a guy. Who wins.

    I would think that if we had a GM in charge he would make that call. Right now I am not sure be believe Rick might have a final say based on his Job Title/Role -Responsibility.

    One think to consider though is that during the Foley incident, he obviously had the final vote.
    He, it appeared, didn't impress the owner with his decision making abilities and was fired.

    Shortly after hiring Rick, the owner came out several times saying that he will now get a bit more involved.

    With all that said, I believe the Owner will make those calls after hearing everyones side of the dispute/dicsussion.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think fans that have followed the team or the NFL for a while and that try to understand the workings of the team have never argued the points.
    There will always be some myopic fans that base success on WRs, QBs and RBs and that's about it.

    The GM question is a good one.
    There is already a staff in place that rivals having the most folks on the payroll of any team in the NFL.
    Once you start putting too many administrative layers into the mix it can go awry.
    However, if each member of the staff has a clearly defined role it can function.
    You also have to have a group of people that are willing to follow the chain of command and that have mutual respect for each other and their personalities jive, at least on a professional level.
    I'm not a fan of having a GM unless the coaching staff feels they are overcommitted and their primary job responsibilities are faltering because of this.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  10. #20
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings' Roster Additions: the Big Three.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Marrado has been say this for a long time but some chose not to listen to him. And, by the way, does it also answer the question as to why Wilf doesn't hired a general manager.
    I think fans that have followed the team or the NFL for a while and that try to understand the workings of the team have never argued the points.
    There will always be some myopic fans that base success on WRs, QBs and RBs and that's about it.

    The GM question is a good one.
    There is already a staff in place that rivals having the most folks on the payroll of any team in the NFL.
    Once you start putting too many administrative layers into the mix it can go awry.
    However, if each member of the staff has a clearly defined role it can function.
    You also have to have a group of people that are willing to follow the chain of command and that have mutual respect for each other and their personalities jive, at least on a professional level.
    I'm not a fan of having a GM unless the coaching staff feels they are overcommitted and their primary job responsibilities are faltering because of this.
    I totally agree but it's NOT the traditional model for a NFL franchise but many here and even the national media talks about how the Vikings have no general manager. My feeling is that if it's not broke, don't fix it. I think Wilf is the GM anyway!
    LOL
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

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