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  1. #21
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Well, Larry Csonka was no speedster, but he was a great back and he and Mercury Morris were a great combo.

    They called them "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid."

    Maybe we could have the beginnings of a legendary duo.

    Might even win some games.

    Let's pick up some O-Linemen in that draft, though.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  2. #22
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080800
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1080788
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080783
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1080767
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080761
    How many of you still don't like him? Comeon, be honest. Again, I remember who you are and can go dig up a post or two.....LOL

    I for one, liked the pick and really like how he is growing. Can you guys/gals imagine what kindof back he will be in 3 years?
    Which NFL player to you see him most like in 3 years? Like Mike Alstott?

    As long as AD is here, he will get minimal touches, we will see.
    I don't see him as a FB. I really see him as a pure RB.

    Unless you play on the Pats, everyone else continues to go with the "Bigger, stronger, faster" path of selecting players. Toby falls into that catagory.

    On a side note, as he gets more reps/comfortable reading what the OL is going to do in thier blocking handovers, I think you will see him break a few.

    Long story short, dude is big, but not slow.

    I think he is doing ok. He has good hands, good instincts, and blocks pretty well. But he sure looks slow to me. I don't see him breaking many long runs off, but he should be very effective in the short passing game as well as between the tackles.
    He's no Alstot but does have some power and leg drive.

    I agree with IBP, he was taken too high.
    Again, I can't see how you guys think he is so slow. Just cause he hasn't really been getting to the outside doesn't mean he can't. It just means they haven't sent him out there yet.

    FYI, From one of the articles I had on him for my mock.....

    "As a white running back you get stereotyped," Gerhart says. "When I tell people I play football, they say, 'Oh, you're a fullback.'" But Gerhart runs more like Glyn Milburn葉he shifty former Stanford great he passed to become fifth on the school's alltime rushing list葉han like former Cardinal bruisers Tommy Vardell and Brad Muster. During Stanford's Sept. 26 win over Washington, Todd Gerhart heard a Huskies coach shout, "He's not fast enough to turn the corner!" A few plays later Toby ripped off a 60-yard touchdown run.
    Tunnel Vision


    40 times.....4.5 (High 4.4/Low 4.6)
    NFL Draft Scout

    Can't remember for sure but I think AD's were in the 4.3/4.4 range.
    How fast is Peyton Hillis?

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  3. #23
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Bout 4.5.....but he fumbles.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  4. #24
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    It's normal that guys like Peyton Hills and Adrian Peterson (Adrian being the exception this year) will fumble more than an average running back. The best running backs plays all out with their heart on the line and consequently give the defense a bigger opportunity to force a fumble because they refuse to go down and take bigger risks.

    Personally, I'd rather have a running back who have 5 fumbles in a season, but gives a 100 % on every play. Instead of a running back who has zero fumbles, but easily goes down on contact.

  5. #25
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080796
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1080785
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080761
    How many of you still don't like him? Comeon, be honest. Again, I remember who you are and can go dig up a post or two.....LOL

    I for one, liked the pick and really like how he is growing. Can you guys/gals imagine what kindof back he will be in 3 years?
    I don't mind him, but I still hate the pick we used to get him.
    He wasn't gonna be there much later by all accounts.

    Mix in that he was probably the only one who really fit he bill/matched the scheme.

    If I was gonna be upset about a pick, I would be about Cook. Don't get me wrong, I like him, but there 3 or 4 others that probably could have been taken later allowing us to go DT in that spot.
    If he's not there later, then that's fine. I'm not a fan of taking RB's in the top few rounds, unless its a can't miss talent.

    Look at all the first and second round RB's, very few of them actually match their draft position with on the field performance. Look back to I believe the 2005 draft. Reggie Bush, Cedric Benson and Ronnie Brown were all top 10 picks. None of them have shown they are worthy of a first round pick, nevermind a top 10 pick. Peterson is the only one in recent memory.

    Teams seem to always find a decent back as a FA or late round pick, no need to waste a top pick on an easy position to find. Now, take say corners, safeties, Quarterbacks etc. (All of which we needed) The top round players at that position generally seem to work out better than backs.

    Look at some of our other RB's recently. Before AP we had Chester. He was a 6th round pick I believe. Before that, Mewelde Moore: 4th round. Onterrio Smith, who was pretty good if he coudl get his shit together. We've had the odd Ciatrick Fason, but for a fourth round pick, much better to spend on a RB than a second.
    Its not that I don't like Gerhart, I just don't like our use of a 2nd round pick on him. We had much more important needs.

    I think most now agree that we are really hurting in that area this year. Much worse than we would have been at the CB right now.
    That's what YOU think, I'd be willing to bet that most don't think we're doing better at CB than DT. In fact, people here have been overly critical of our secondary.

    Also, remember early on, we had 3 active Corners. Corner was absolutely a need. Antoine is old, Griffen coming off injury, Allen doesn't seem to do much, and we traded Sapp. DT is fine at the moment, CB Needed help NOW.

  6. #26
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    At the combine: 6'0" 231 pound Toby Gerhart ran a 4.50 with 10 and 20 yard splits of 1.55 and 2.56. He also recorded a 38" vertical leap, 9'10" broad jump, and a 6.94 second 3-cone drill.

    At the combine: Not quite 6'1" 240 pound Peyton Hillis ran a 4.64 with 10 and 20 yard splits of 1.59 and 2.68. He also recorded a 30.5" vertical leap, 9'09" broad jump, and a 7.15 second 3-cone drill.

    via:
    NFL Draft Scout - Toby Gerhart
    NFL Draft Scout - Peyton Hillis

    Both impressive athletes, but Gerhart more so. Let's see how he looks in his third year as a pro.

    And Infidel, Csonka and Jim Kiick were "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," not Morris.

  7. #27
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Quote Originally Posted by "Zeus" #1080831
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080800
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1080788
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080783
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1080767
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080761
    How many of you still don't like him? Comeon, be honest. Again, I remember who you are and can go dig up a post or two.....LOL

    I for one, liked the pick and really like how he is growing. Can you guys/gals imagine what kindof back he will be in 3 years?
    Which NFL player to you see him most like in 3 years? Like Mike Alstott?

    As long as AD is here, he will get minimal touches, we will see.
    I don't see him as a FB. I really see him as a pure RB.

    Unless you play on the Pats, everyone else continues to go with the "Bigger, stronger, faster" path of selecting players. Toby falls into that catagory.

    On a side note, as he gets more reps/comfortable reading what the OL is going to do in thier blocking handovers, I think you will see him break a few.

    Long story short, dude is big, but not slow.

    I think he is doing ok. He has good hands, good instincts, and blocks pretty well. But he sure looks slow to me. I don't see him breaking many long runs off, but he should be very effective in the short passing game as well as between the tackles.
    He's no Alstot but does have some power and leg drive.

    I agree with IBP, he was taken too high.
    Again, I can't see how you guys think he is so slow. Just cause he hasn't really been getting to the outside doesn't mean he can't. It just means they haven't sent him out there yet.

    FYI, From one of the articles I had on him for my mock.....

    "As a white running back you get stereotyped," Gerhart says. "When I tell people I play football, they say, 'Oh, you're a fullback.'" But Gerhart runs more like Glyn Milburn葉he shifty former Stanford great he passed to become fifth on the school's alltime rushing list葉han like former Cardinal bruisers Tommy Vardell and Brad Muster. During Stanford's Sept. 26 win over Washington, Todd Gerhart heard a Huskies coach shout, "He's not fast enough to turn the corner!" A few plays later Toby ripped off a 60-yard touchdown run.
    Tunnel Vision


    40 times.....4.5 (High 4.4/Low 4.6)
    NFL Draft Scout

    Can't remember for sure but I think AD's were in the 4.3/4.4 range.
    How fast is Peyton Hillis?

    =Z=
    Hillis 4.66
    Gerhart 4.53
    Peterson 4.44
    Cop speed 4.24
    A. Foster 4.56 (leads nfl in rushing)
    j charles 4.38 (2nd in nfl in rushing)

    http://www.mattrauch.com/2008-nfl-combine-results.php

  8. #28
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1080858
    Quote Originally Posted by "Zeus" #1080831
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080800
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1080788
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080783
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1080767
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1080761
    How many of you still don't like him? Comeon, be honest. Again, I remember who you are and can go dig up a post or two.....LOL

    I for one, liked the pick and really like how he is growing. Can you guys/gals imagine what kindof back he will be in 3 years?
    Which NFL player to you see him most like in 3 years? Like Mike Alstott?

    As long as AD is here, he will get minimal touches, we will see.
    I don't see him as a FB. I really see him as a pure RB.

    Unless you play on the Pats, everyone else continues to go with the "Bigger, stronger, faster" path of selecting players. Toby falls into that catagory.

    On a side note, as he gets more reps/comfortable reading what the OL is going to do in thier blocking handovers, I think you will see him break a few.

    Long story short, dude is big, but not slow.

    I think he is doing ok. He has good hands, good instincts, and blocks pretty well. But he sure looks slow to me. I don't see him breaking many long runs off, but he should be very effective in the short passing game as well as between the tackles.
    He's no Alstot but does have some power and leg drive.

    I agree with IBP, he was taken too high.
    Again, I can't see how you guys think he is so slow. Just cause he hasn't really been getting to the outside doesn't mean he can't. It just means they haven't sent him out there yet.

    FYI, From one of the articles I had on him for my mock.....

    "As a white running back you get stereotyped," Gerhart says. "When I tell people I play football, they say, 'Oh, you're a fullback.'" But Gerhart runs more like Glyn Milburn葉he shifty former Stanford great he passed to become fifth on the school's alltime rushing list葉han like former Cardinal bruisers Tommy Vardell and Brad Muster. During Stanford's Sept. 26 win over Washington, Todd Gerhart heard a Huskies coach shout, "He's not fast enough to turn the corner!" A few plays later Toby ripped off a 60-yard touchdown run.
    Tunnel Vision


    40 times.....4.5 (High 4.4/Low 4.6)
    NFL Draft Scout

    Can't remember for sure but I think AD's were in the 4.3/4.4 range.
    How fast is Peyton Hillis?

    =Z=
    Hillis 4.66
    Gerhart 4.53
    Peterson 4.44
    Cop speed 4.24
    A. Foster 4.56 (leads nfl in rushing)
    j charles 4.38 (2nd in nfl in rushing)

    http://www.mattrauch.com/2008-nfl-combine-results.php
    Peterson ran a 4.40(I remember 4.38 or 4.35 unofficially and being blown away) according to the site I cited above. Althought it's kind of splitting hairs. He's also bigger than the rest of the guys who tested faster than him... but he outjumped them, despite weighing 20 pounds or greater more than they do. He's the best athlete on the list, and the best running back.

    Now that I click your link, I see that they have AD at 4.4 also. So, nevermind.

  9. #29
    HEY's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1080857
    At the combine: 6'0" 231 pound Toby Gerhart ran a 4.50 with 10 and 20 yard splits of 1.55 and 2.56. He also recorded a 38" vertical leap, 9'10" broad jump, and a 6.94 second 3-cone drill.

    At the combine: Not quite 6'1" 240 pound Peyton Hillis ran a 4.64 with 10 and 20 yard splits of 1.59 and 2.68. He also recorded a 30.5" vertical leap, 9'09" broad jump, and a 7.15 second 3-cone drill.

    Both impressive athletes, but Gerhart more so. Let's see how he looks in his third year as a pro.

    And Infidel, Csonka and Jim Kiick were "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," not Morris.
    Thanks for straighting things out, Mr Anderson!

    Funny how things changes when they walk on the field. Peyton Hillis looks much faster on the field and he leaps defenders with ease. Plus, he catches the ball with so much grace, he puts Pro Bowl wide receivers to shame. It just shows you how legit combine stats are... NOT. Honestly, I'd pick Peyton Hillis over Toby Gerhart any day. That man is a beast!

    Oh... and I completely agree with i_bleed_purple. I didn't condone with using such a high draft pick on Toby Gerhart for two reasons:

    1. It has been proven many times that good running backs have been found everywhere in the draft. At the same time, many first round running backs have not played to their expectations. I think it's easier to find good running backs than any other position and they don't require as much knowledge as the other positions (except kickers).

    2. The running back position is the most short-lived position in the NFL. You would want to draft a player in the first round who will produce for at least a decade. The average year for a running back is less than that.

    Despite this, I supported the draft of Adrian Peterson with the 7th pick in the first round. The reason: I knew he was something special. A player who comes around once in a decade.

  10. #30
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Vikings rookie RB Toby Gerhart gaining yards,trust

    I've been pleased with the effort and development I have seen from Gerhart so far. I tend to give rookies a lot of slack because of the great amount of learning and adjustment required to make it at this level. He has exceeded expectations thus far.

    Toby seems to me to be the kind of guy who gets better and stronger the more work he gets. He needs a few carries early just to get up to game speed, but once he is there, he's pretty good.

    On the speed thing, it looks like he has less burst but better sustained speed. That makes sense given his weight and build. He's at his best running downhill, but can get outside if he needs to.

    I won't get into the draft discussion. Draft analysis has always seemed like too much work to me.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

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