Thread: Vikings QB Options Since Childress Arrived

I keep having to dig up info from various sites everytime
some yutz comes on here and starts spewing forth drivel
about this staff and its inability to develop a QB.

Although the discussion is interesting to have, and most points have merit, I do not believe everyone is on the same page with respect to what has actually transpired when it comes to who was available and actions taken to get them.

Having said all that, here is my stab at putting it all together into one thread for posterity/future yutz slapping around.

2006 - The Vikings ownership group cleans house and hires a new HC, new VP of Player personnel.

QB's on the roster from the previous year (2005)at that point were........
Duante Culpepper
Brad Johnson
Shaun Hill

Of course we all know that Duante suffered a devastating
knee injury and BJ had to take over with pretty decent
success.

First order of business was to get Duante backup to MN to get his knee checked out by the Vikes medical staff. Suffice it to say, he wasn't gonna be ready for the 2006 season.
He knew it, the Vikes knew it and Daunte left it up to his agent (himself) to get himself out of MN. Mostly because the staff wouldn't entertain his contract requests without said exam.

Anyway, that gets us to the actions taken in 2006.

The staff elected to go ahead with BJ, mostly based on his performance in 2005 as the starting QB. The showed interest in Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens and Tavaris Jackson that were available in the draft.

The following is a list of 2006 Rookies that year:

2006 1 3 Vince Young Titans
1 10 Matt Leinart Cardinals
1 11 Jay Cutler Broncos
2 49 Kellen Clemens Jets
2 64 Tarvaris Jackson Vikings
3 81 Charlie Whitehurst Chargers
3 85 Brodie Croyle Chiefs
5 148 Ingle Martin Packers
5 164 Omar Jacobs Steelers
6 193 Reggie McNeal Bengals
6 194 Bruce Gradkowski Buccaneers
7 223 D.J. Shockley Falcons

Who we drafted:
2006 1 17 Chad Greenway LB
2 48 Cedric Griffin DB
2 51 Ryan Cook C
2 64 Tarvaris Jackson QB
4 127 Ray Edwards DE
5 149 Greg Blue DB


With VY going to the Titans, Leinart going to the Cards and Cutler going to the Broncos, pickings were pretty slim after that for QB's.

Suffice it to say that other than VY late last year, and Cutler when he was in Denver, TJ doesn't seem to be that bad of a pick.

Sure we moved up into the second to get him, but at that point, I probably would have moved up as well with the rationale/mindset of knowing the staff needed a young QB to groom, with alot of other teams behind them also needing QB's, none of the other candidates appeared to be very interesting.

To date, I believe that assemsment was correct.

OK, lets look at the other options the staff had in 2006 to fix our QB woes, keeping in mind that they still had BJ on the roster who did a pretty good job the year before in relief of the recently departed Pepper.

2006 Free Agent QBs
Drew Brees UFA
Aaron Brooks UFA
Brian Griese UFA
Kerry Collins UFA
Jon Kitna UFA
Josh McCown UFA
Jay Fiedler UFA
Charlie Batch UFA
Jeff Garcia UFA
Gus Frerotte UFA
Mike McMahon UFA
Tommy Maddox UFA
Anthony Wright UFA
Tony Banks UFA
Sage Rosenfels UFA
Vinny Testaverde UFA
Seneca Wallace RFA
Dave Ragone RFA
Jamie Martin UFA
Chris Weinke UFA
Tim Hasselbeck UFA
Jeff Blake UFA
Shaun Hill UFA
Ken Dorsey RFA
Ty Detmer UFA
Damon Huard UFA
Todd Collins UFA
Craig Nall UFA
Shane Matthews UFA
Travis Brown UFA
Andy Hall UFA
Brian St. Pierre RFA

Pretty stellar group. Most at the time were screaming for Jeff Garcia. Alas, for those Vikings fans he jetted straight to the Iggles on Mar 15th and really didn't visit any other teams.

The only other 2 QB's of that class that anyone might have wanted, as I mentioned earlier would have been Brees and Warner. Both of which had issues that could have attributed to the staff not looking at them. Again, they had BJ.

Well, we all now how 2006 worked out. We found out BJ's arm was a Noodle, and TJ was inserted in late in the season with very poor results.

First chance that everyone seems to say he should have shown something.

This then brings us to 2007 group of rookies that were gonna be available:
2007 1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders
1 22 Brady Quinn Browns
2 36 Kevin Kolb Eagles
2 40 John Beck Dolphins
2 43 Drew Stanton Lions
3 92 Trent Edwards Bills
4 103 Isaiah Stanback Cowboys
5 151 Jeff Rowe Bengals
5 174 Troy Smith Ravens
6 205 Jordan Palmer Redskins
7 217 Tyler Thigpen Vikings

The Vikings picked the following players:
2007 1 7 Adrian Peterson RB
2 44 Sidney Rice WR
3 72 Marcus McCauley DB
4 102 Brian Robison DE
5 146 Aundrae Allison WR
6 176 Rufus Alexander LB
7 217 Tyler Thigpen QB
7 233 Chandler Williams WR

We could have picked Quinn but opted for AD instead. It think that was a wise choice. We also could have tried to move up from 44 (El Syd) to try to get Kolb (never heard any rumors of that) but believe we made the right choice there.

In the end, we snatched up Thigpen who is still running around trying to make it as a starter for a team. I think he might have found success this year with the Phins but that is still toto be decided.

Other than that, the cupboard was pretty bare with respect to draft picks. So lets look at the FA market for a solution:

Matt Schaub RFA
David Carr UFA
Jeff Garcia UFA
Damon Huard UFA
Joey Harrington UFA
Anthony Wright UFA
Marques Tuiasosopo UFA
Cleo Lemon RFA
John Navarre RFA
Tim Rattay UFA
Quinn Gray RFA
Jim Sorgi RFA
Kerry Collins UFA
Brad Johnson UFA
Aaron Brooks UFA
Doug Johnson UFA
Todd Bouman UFA
Drew Bledsoe UFA
Brian St. Pierre RFA
Chris Weinke UFA
Shane Matthews UFA
Vinny Testaverde UFA
Lang Campbell UFA
Koy Detmer UFA

Pretty stellar group huh? Alot of discussion about Schaub, mostly bad swelled about the same discussions we had about Garcia that year, but again, nothing much to choose from if you ask me.

I won't go into who we brought in, I will just move on to 2008.
The following is a list of QB's avaliable at that point:
2008 1 3 Matt Ryan Falcons
1 18 Joe Flacco Ravens
2 56 Brian Brohm Packers
2 57 Chad Henne Dolphins
3 94 Kevin O'Connell Patriots
5 137 John David Booty Vikings
5 156 Dennis Dixon Steelers
5 160 Josh Johnson Buccaneers
5 162 Erik Ainge Jets
6 186 Colt Brennan Redskins
6 198 Andre' Woodson Giants
7 209 Matt Flynn Packers
7 223 Alex Brink Texans

Keeping in mind what we did when we traded for JA, we drafted:

2008 2 43 Tyrell Johnson DB
5 137 John David Booty QB
5 152 Letroy Guion DT
6 187 John Sullivan C
6 193 Jaymar Johnson WR

Not alot to pick from at our 43rd pick. We opted to take JDB in the 5th round. I for one liked the pick at that time. Judging by the success of the QBs in this draft behind him, there might be a case still out there for Dennis Dixon by CmacD but that is still a point of discussion.

So, that leaves us with the FA market for that year:
Derek Anderson RFA
Byron Leftwich UFA
Cleo Lemon UFA
Daunte Culpepper UFA
Todd Collins UFA
Trent Green UFA
Chris Redman UFA
Kelly Holcomb UFA
Josh McCown UFA
Billy Volek UFA

Again a pretty weak class. I was interested in DA at that time but other than that, no one else seemed to be a good fit.

On to the 2009 Draft class:
2009 1 1 Matthew Stafford Lions
1 5 Mark Sanchez Jets
1 17 Josh Freeman Buccaneers
2 44 Pat White Dolphins
4 101 Stephen McGee Cowboys
5 151 Rhett Bomar Giants
5 171 Nate Davis 49ers
6 174 Tom Brandstater Broncos
6 178 Mike Teel Seahawks
6 196 Keith Null Rams
6 201 Curtis Painter Colts
7 232 Julian Edelman Patriots
What we drafted:
2009 1 22 Percy Harvin WR
2 54 Phil Loadholt T
3 86 Asher Allen DB
5 150 Jasper Brinkley LB
7 231 Jamarca Sanford DB
Again, not much after the first couple/three so I am happy with what they did here.

On to the 2009 FA QB market:
Kurt Warner UFA
Brett Favre UFA
Matt Cassel Fran.
Michael Vick UFA
Kerry Collins UFA
Jeff Garcia UFA
J.T. O'Sullivan UFA
Damon Huard UFA
Andrew Walter UFA
Luke McCown UFA
Chris Simms UFA
J.P. Losman UFA
Byron Leftwich UFA
Gus Frerotte UFA

Our boy Garcia is still trying to make a team (guess that validates the staff for not going after him all these years).

Enter the Noodle and what everyone is pondering what we will do this year.
2010 Rookie QB Pool:
1 Sam Bradford QB
2 Jimmy Clausen QB
3 Tim Tebow QB
4 Colt McCoy QB
5 Tony Pike QB
6 Dan LeFevour QB
7 Jonathan Crompton QB
8 John Skelton QB
9 Jarrett Brown QB
10 Zac Robinson QB
11 Levi Brown QB
12 Mike Kafka QB
13 Jevan Snead QB
14 Sean Canfield QB
15 Matt Nichols QB
16 Tim Hiller QB
17 Max Hall QB
18 Ryan Perrilloux QB
19 Joey Elliott QB
20 Noah Shepard QB

With us picking at 30 and and at the bottom of each round after that, the odds of us landing a "Franchise QB" out of this weak class is pretty slim.

2010 FA QB's available:
Anderson, Derek Released
Batch, Charlie UFA
Beck, John RFA
Boller, Kyle UFA
Brunell, Mark UFA
Bulger, Marc Released
Campbell, Jason RFA
Carr, David UFA
Clemens, Kellen RFA
Collins, Todd Released
Croyle, Brodie RFA
Culpepper, Daunte UFA
Delhomme, Jake Released
Feeley, A.J. UFA
Frye, Charlie RFA
Gradkowski, Bruce RFA
Grossman, Rex UFA
Hamdan, Gibran RFA
Jackson, Tarvaris RFA
Losman, J.P. RFA
McCown, Josh UFA
Moore, Matt RFA
Orton, Kyle RFA
Palmer, Jordan EFA
Pennington, Chad UFA
Ramsey, Patrick UFA
Simms, Chris Released
Smith, Troy RFA
Sorgi, Jim Released
St. Pierre, Brian UFA

Pretty much the same cast of characters mixed in with the same crop of never wases or has beens.

I for one, look back over this mess and wonder to myself how anyone in their right mind could look to this staff and say how inept they are at not only landing a quality FA vet or developing any of the talent that we had available to us.

As always, comments, discussion points welcomed.

Just considering the 2009 draft class, you have Julian Edelman listed? Not sure if he is a QB/WR but he played WR for the Pats, primarily when Welker was injured in the playoffs.

Julian Edelman

Other than that, Great Post. I know I'm relatively new here and my opinion doesn't matter that much, but for what its worth, I think this is a great thread.

12purplepride28 wrote:

Just considering the 2009 draft class, you have Julian Edelman listed? Not sure if he is a QB/WR but he played WR for the Pats, primarily when Welker was injured in the playoffs.

Julian Edelman

Other than that, Great Post. I know I'm relatively new here and my opinion doesn't matter that much, but for what its worth, I think this is a great thread.

First, what makes PPO great is everyones opinion matters. You might have to take some shit for it at times, but it matters.

Second, thanks for the feedback. Info provided was how each class of QB's were graded out/projected to go. If they have him in there, then the concensus is/was that he might go as a QB and doesn't take into account how the team will/did use him.

On a side note, just one reply? Looks like all the posters who say this staff sucks at fixing the QB position are silent today.

Were are all the solutions that most of you think the staff should have taken to make it better than what it is/was?

Nice job putting this together Marrdro, if I had a spreadsheet I would bump you up a little bit. That wouldn't be tough because I would have you and singer and blv, and VQ on the spreadsheet in their category of irrational hatred toward Favre even after being proven wrong on every single point they made.

Back to the topic, this has been discussed a zillion times and I am glad you put this together so people have to actually come up with viable options rather than bullshit. There are still some that have the 'pie in the sky' mentality where there were a lot of options available.

We can trace it back, like you mentioned, to Daunte flipping out to the Associated Press via e-mail and the untimely denouement of Brad Johnson's career after doing a good job backing up in '05 and taking the team over. Since then it has been a nightmare at the QB position until Favre was brought in. That band-aid has almost run its course now.

So, if Favre comes back another year and a new recruit is brought into the learning process I wouldn't be surprised to see TJack start in 2011 with a couple options available just in case he ends up stinking up the field. The team continues to get built into a stronger team every year, so, it just may work out. I am hoping for resolution at the QB slot, as every Vikings fan is.

Good work Marrdro on putting all the options available since Chilly's reign.

Here's my take on the whole subject. Fans will not be happy with anything but a top 5-6 QB in the league, a true franchise QB. Even then there will be many for and against the guy. It is a position with the most visibility and impact on any team, which naturally brings any win or loss on any given day heavily into their perceived play. Fair or not, its the reason these topics get so much action.

Just like any position in any sport there are truly only a handful of athletes that separate themselves from their peers. If you have one of the greats in the game, it is very unlikely that he will become available via FA...unless your as stupid as the Packers. Therefore your list of FA's throughout the years is predictably weak. There may be a diamond in the rough that with the right system and right coaches could break out and be one of those guys, but its a long shot at best. Typically FA QB's are stop gap solutions or backup fodder.

In terms of the draft, we have not had a lot of chances to draft high on the boards since the TJ draft year and I'm not sure that we felt the need to go high in the draft for a QB in the early Childress years.

Most teams in the NFL face a similar situation to the Vikings, that is, looking for a long term franchise QB to build a team around. With the emphasis on passing in the NFL right now, the importance of this position is greater than ever. Last year, must have been the best if not one of the best years on record statistically for the QB.

So, yes, it hasn't been like we've passed on a lot of great opportunities to sign our long term franchise QB. But that doesn't mean there haven't been options if the organization felt it was a high enough priority. There are always ways to get things done, if you want it bad enough.

It is a failing point of the Childress era (not necessarily with just Childress himself). If it doesn't get resolved in the next few years, it will more than likely take his reign down with him. It's just the way it works, if you want a long term successful program, you need a franchise QB.

Now that the excuses are all out of the way for why we are longing for a long term QB, what are we going to do about it now? Part of the HC's job along with all his supporting staff is to find a long term viable option for QB, so far, that hasn't happened for whatever reasons.

Most often the draft is where you need to make it happen. Hopefully the situation arises where we can land a guy that we think can fit the bill.

Prophet wrote:

Nice job putting this together Marrdro, if I had a spreadsheet I would bump you up a little bit. That wouldn't be tough because I would have you and singer and blv, and VQ on the spreadsheet in their category of irrational hatred toward Favre even after being proven wrong on every single point they made.

Back to the topic, this has been discussed a zillion times and I am glad you put this together so people have to actually come up with viable options rather than bullshit. There are still some that have the 'pie in the sky' mentality where there were a lot of options available.

We can trace it back, like you mentioned, to Daunte flipping out to the Associated Press via e-mail and the untimely denouement of Brad Johnson's career after doing a good job backing up in '05 and taking the team over. Since then it has been a nightmare at the QB position until Favre was brought in. That band-aid has almost run its course now.

So, if Favre comes back another year and a new recruit is brought into the learning process I wouldn't be surprised to see TJack start in 2011 with a couple options available just in case he ends up stinking up the field. The team continues to get built into a stronger team every year, so, it just may work out. I am hoping for resolution at the QB slot, as every Vikings fan is.

Thanks my friend.

I've looked ahead a bit (2 years) and as usual, probably over analyzed it a bit, but there just doesn't seem to be a solution out there with respect to a Vet or a rookie coming in after the Noodle leaves that can/will run this team other than TJ.

Again, I don't blame the staff for this but rather, I blame the coaches at the collegiate level (don't develop pocket passers anymore) along with the ability of teams to know pay exhorbitant amounts of cash to players which allows them to not only retain thier starters, but thier quality backups as well.

tastywaves wrote:

Good work Marrdro on putting all the options available since Chilly's reign.

Here's my take on the whole subject. Fans will not be happy with anything but a top 5-6 QB in the league, a true franchise QB. Even then there will be many for and against the guy. It is a position with the most visibility and impact on any team, which naturally brings any win or loss on any given day heavily into their perceived play. Fair or not, its the reason these topics get so much action.

Just like any position in any sport there are truly only a handful of athletes that separate themselves from their peers. If you have one of the greats in the game, it is very unlikely that he will become available via FA...unless your as stupid as the Packers. Therefore your list of FA's throughout the years is predictably weak. There may be a diamond in the rough that with the right system and right coaches could break out and be one of those guys, but its a long shot at best. Typically FA QB's are stop gap solutions or backup fodder.

In terms of the draft, we have not had a lot of chances to draft high on the boards since the TJ draft year and I'm not sure that we felt the need to go high in the draft for a QB in the early Childress years.

Most teams in the NFL face a similar situation to the Vikings, that is, looking for a long term franchise QB to build a team around. With the emphasis on passing in the NFL right now, the importance of this position is greater than ever. Last year, must have been the best if not one of the best years on record statistically for the QB.

So, yes, it hasn't been like we've passed on a lot of great opportunities to sign our long term franchise QB. But that doesn't mean there haven't been options if the organization felt it was a high enough priority. There are always ways to get things done, if you want it bad enough.

It is a failing point of the Childress era (not necessarily with just Childress himself). If it doesn't get resolved in the next few years, it will more than likely take his reign down with him. It's just the way it works, if you want a long term successful program, you need a franchise QB.

Now that the excuses are all out of the way for why we are longing for a long term QB, what are we going to do about it now? Part of the HC's job along with all his supporting staff is to find a long term viable option for QB, so far, that hasn't happened for whatever reasons.

Most often the draft is where you need to make it happen. Hopefully the situation arises where we can land a guy that we think can fit the bill.

Now there is an intelligent introspection on a particular position and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think that TJ has progressed, but slowly. I don't think you are going to see much more improvement this year that you didn't get to see last year. It might be time to "move on" and take a chance on someone new, perhaps a McCoy (my preference) or Tebow, or someone else projected for the late rounds. Good value is there but takes good analasys and a bit of luck to find the next Brady or Warner.

This is agreat thread and well put together by Marrdro.

I have already been pretty vocal as to what I think about the QB issues so I'm not going to bore everyone by repeating myself.

I will say this to 12PurplePride28. Regardless of whether or not people agree with you, your opinion is always welcomed. It is why this site (thanks toe Webby) is so successful. I, like most here love to talk football and try to make the others think like us. Although I know it will never happen it is still fun trying.

You seem pretty level headed. Like I said before, not everyone will always agree. That is what makes coming here is so much fun as long as people respect each other's thoughts and opinions whether or not they agree.

Marrdro wrote:

Prophet wrote:

Nice job putting this together Marrdro, if I had a spreadsheet I would bump you up a little bit. That wouldn't be tough because I would have you and singer and blv, and VQ on the spreadsheet in their category of irrational hatred toward Favre even after being proven wrong on every single point they made.

Back to the topic, this has been discussed a zillion times and I am glad you put this together so people have to actually come up with viable options rather than bullshit. There are still some that have the 'pie in the sky' mentality where there were a lot of options available.

We can trace it back, like you mentioned, to Daunte flipping out to the Associated Press via e-mail and the untimely denouement of Brad Johnson's career after doing a good job backing up in '05 and taking the team over. Since then it has been a nightmare at the QB position until Favre was brought in. That band-aid has almost run its course now.

So, if Favre comes back another year and a new recruit is brought into the learning process I wouldn't be surprised to see TJack start in 2011 with a couple options available just in case he ends up stinking up the field. The team continues to get built into a stronger team every year, so, it just may work out. I am hoping for resolution at the QB slot, as every Vikings fan is.

Thanks my friend.

I've looked ahead a bit (2 years) and as usual, probably over analyzed it a bit, but there just doesn't seem to be a solution out there with respect to a Vet or a rookie coming in after the Noodle leaves that can/will run this team other than TJ.

Again, I don't blame the staff for this but rather, I blame the coaches at the collegiate level (don't develop pocket passers anymore) along with the ability of teams to know pay exhorbitant amounts of cash to players which allows them to not only retain thier starters, but thier quality backups as well.

I don't consider myself a college football fan, even though I go to about 8-10 DI games/year. I know what you're saying though about the collegiate level not developing QBs to be ready for the NFL. That has been my experience watching them play. I saw Tebow play a few times live and was far from impressed. He panicked, tossed picks, ran the ball way too much for me to be impressed. It seemed like he didn't let plays develop and ran, kind of Ron Mexicoesque. So, it's tough for me to get very excited about guys like that making their entrance into the NFL and making a splash anytime soon. I'm sure you guys that follow college ball at a more serious level have better ideas about which college stars may be able to make the transition. I'm really hoping they pick up a new recruit that is ready to compete next year or even being potentially available to toss into the mix if TJack doesn't turn the corner. TJack's next starting gig will be his last with the Vikings if he doesn't show some consistency in a few game stretch. The team is not a patchwork team like in the previous era, it is built strong and a middle-of-the-road dilferesque QB should be able to drive the ship. I'm hoping for better than that.

tastywaves wrote:

Good work Marrdro on putting all the options available since Chilly's reign.

Here's my take on the whole subject. Fans will not be happy with anything but a top 5-6 QB in the league, a true franchise QB. Even then there will be many for and against the guy. It is a position with the most visibility and impact on any team, which naturally brings any win or loss on any given day heavily into their perceived play. Fair or not, its the reason these topics get so much action.

Just like any position in any sport there are truly only a handful of athletes that separate themselves from their peers. If you have one of the greats in the game, it is very unlikely that he will become available via FA...unless your as stupid as the Packers. Therefore your list of FA's throughout the years is predictably weak. There may be a diamond in the rough that with the right system and right coaches could break out and be one of those guys, but its a long shot at best. Typically FA QB's are stop gap solutions or backup fodder.

In terms of the draft, we have not had a lot of chances to draft high on the boards since the TJ draft year and I'm not sure that we felt the need to go high in the draft for a QB in the early Childress years.

Most teams in the NFL face a similar situation to the Vikings, that is, looking for a long term franchise QB to build a team around. With the emphasis on passing in the NFL right now, the importance of this position is greater than ever. Last year, must have been the best if not one of the best years on record statistically for the QB.

So, yes, it hasn't been like we've passed on a lot of great opportunities to sign our long term franchise QB. But that doesn't mean there haven't been options if the organization felt it was a high enough priority. There are always ways to get things done, if you want it bad enough.

It is a failing point of the Childress era (not necessarily with just Childress himself). If it doesn't get resolved in the next few years, it will more than likely take his reign down with him. It's just the way it works, if you want a long term successful program, you need a franchise QB.

Now that the excuses are all out of the way for why we are longing for a long term QB, what are we going to do about it now? Part of the HC's job along with all his supporting staff is to find a long term viable option for QB, so far, that hasn't happened for whatever reasons.

Most often the draft is where you need to make it happen. Hopefully the situation arises where we can land a guy that we think can fit the bill.

As usual, a great post, but I do have one small nagging issue that I kindof differ with you on a bit.....

Part of the HC's job along with all his supporting staff is to find a long term viable option for QB, so far, that hasn't happened for whatever reasons.

It isn't the HC's job, unless of course he is the GM and HC.

The way a typical NFL organization is structured is the GM finds, brings in the talent and keeps them under contract or gets rid of them, the HC and his staff develop and use that talent to execute thier scheme.

Again, this is one of the biggest beefs I have with entities like ESPN and local/national sports rags. They keep on perpetuating this fallacy that the HC and HC alone is responsible for bringing in a cat like a QB and should be fired if he doesn't.

I know that they use it to keep the masses all tuned in to see how things are going to unfold, but I absolutely hate that they do stuff like this and is the primary reason why I like shows like NFLN or NFL channel on Sirius Radio.

They actually bring in the HC's and GM's and talk about this process instead of spinning it.