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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Correct, there is a soccer field in that pic. On the overlays it is defined as "open tailgate parking". My guess is they are trying to show that the space can and will be used for other things in the summer. I suspect the grass would have to be resodded every year, but all in all not a bad idea for continued use.

    One of the issues I heard form the hill is that creating large tailgating lots for use 10-12 times wastes space. It looks like they are looking for creative ways to alleviate that.

    Of course, if they put it in Arden Hills, there wouldn't be a space issue at all...

    So if they sod it every year then start tailgating in September (Soccer can go until then) if it rains we'll be tailgating in a mudhole?

    no thanks.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webby View Post
    All you have to do is look to Phoenix to know why all the hype around Arden Hills would fail here as it did there. Development isn't shooting up and sustainable in Glendale away from the city center. And it has hockey, football and more there and still struggles.

    Spending $1 Billion just for contiguous tailgating space makes no sense.
    So let me get this straight. You are saying that a stadium would fail in AH but it will be successful in the site of the current site that has proven to be a financial failure for years? Where is all of the development that was going to take place when the dome was built in it's current location?

    The stadium in Phoenix has to be the ugliest stadium in the NFL. It looks like they are holding games in the Michelin Man.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Where is all of the development that was going to take place when the dome was built in it's current location?
    That would be Humphry's & Dome Plus. LOL!

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Agreed, there is no parking - this is an issue IMHO.

    As far as the green space versus tax base, The zoomed out shots show development possibilities on either side of the plaza, particularly on the North side. The entire plaza is a total of two or three city blocks, which are currently occupied by the Star Trib building and a parking lot. They actually show the plaza going all the way to the Courthouse, which looks cool, but I suspect that is just for ascetics in the conceptual drawings. In reality the Hennepin County Jail is in the last block, and it is a fairly current facility that I don't see them moving. So losing a parking lot and a strib building for plaza isn't going to affect tax revenues.
    Yeah, conceptual.

    It was put there to make fans go 'oh yeah, that is going to look so cool, lets build it" without knowing that if they actually built what the concept shows there is probably 3 billion in work to get to that point. If they actually showed what they would get for the 1 Billion the citizens would by and large say "That doesn't really look appreciably better than what they have".

    That is the shady part of the stadium push. They should be honest, up front and show what the state was actually getting, not what some guy with a CAD program can dream up with no budget to work with.

    Any of those development possibilities, if they were doable, would alreadt be done in the past 30 years. Nothing changes with the new stadium other than the cost of everything going up 2-4x.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    That would be Humphry's & Dome Plus. LOL!
    More like Cesspools R Us.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Correct, there is a soccer field in that pic. On the overlays it is defined as "open tailgate parking". My guess is they are trying to show that the space can and will be used for other things in the summer. I suspect the grass would have to be resodded every year, but all in all not a bad idea for continued use.

    One of the issues I heard form the hill is that creating large tailgating lots for use 10-12 times wastes space. It looks like they are looking for creative ways to alleviate that.

    Of course, if they put it in Arden Hills, there wouldn't be a space issue at all...
    With no housing close to the soccer field, would it get used?

    Creating a large tailgating lot in downtown may waste space, but I agree in Arden Hills that wouldn't be an issue. Nevertheless those parking spaces, if downtown, can still be used year round & raise revenue. As it stands, privately owned lots & ramps are getting the gameday parking.

    Arden Hills brings paid parking right to the stadium, with tailgaiting on site much the same way the old Met did.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So let me get this straight. You are saying that a stadium would fail in AH but it will be successful in the site of the current site that has proven to be a financial failure for years? Where is all of the development that was going to take place when the dome was built in it's current location?

    The stadium in Phoenix has to be the ugliest stadium in the NFL. It looks like they are holding games in the Michelin Man.
    Its a financial failure due to Dome amenities, not location.

    Thank you for making my case. Just putting a stadium somewhere does not make commercialism happen, just like not in AH.

    The growth of the area is due to light rail, revitalization along Washington Ave and a change in perception of East Downtown that is driving the commercial success of the area.

    The stadium is tangential to it but an anchor.

    So yes, the commercial area in AH without the support of the surrounding area like downtown would likely wither and fail.

    Well integrated planning (not done with the Dome) being done here will create a nice scenario. Just visit Indianapolis to see it done right!!!
    Last edited by Webby; 04-03-2012 at 09:17 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webby View Post
    Its a financial failure due to Dome amenities, not location.

    Thank you for making my case. Just putting a stadium somewhere does not make commercialism happen, just like not in AH.

    The growth of the area is due to light rail, revitalization along Washington Ave and a change in perception of East Downtown that is driving the commercial success of the area.

    The stadium is tangential to it but an anchor.

    So yes, the commercial area in AH without the support of the surrounding area like downtown would likely wither and fail.

    Well integrated planning (not done with the Dome) being done here will create a nice scenario. Just visit Indianapolis to see it done right!!!

    Hopefully before you brought up Indianapolis you took time to look into the fact that they are looking to have to put significant money into their stadium commission because revenues are not what they projected and expenses are significantly higher.

    Everything you stated as a reason why the dome site will be successful have yet to produce anything substantial in terms of redevelopment in the 30 years it has already sat there and the progress was not held up because people are pissing in troughs.

    The difference in amenities is if you have 2 season tickets you will probably spend 3x that amount of money you did in the old dome.

    It is a blue collar sport that they are trying to market to a mauve collar community.

  9. #19
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    So, that is about the stadium itself in Indy. Just like the Dome is here. Dome isn't financially viable...for the Vikings. As I said.

    The purpose of my point is that in Indy they placed it in an advantageous spot and from all the folks I know down there and coverage of it, they love its a part of the exceedingly well planned out downtown area. It was a purposeful and smart urban design decision.

    I also stated the new living spaces, the new mass transit, new theater and other commercial startups in the area etc etc as why the area is growing because it now has the mix to support growth; the Dome is just another piece to the puzzle.

    So to be clear: a stadium does not make a big entertainment/commercial district.

    The Dome with the Twins, Gophers, Monster Truck Rallies and Vikings couldn't sustain commercial development in the area? But lets put a 10 game stadium in Arden Hills and it magically will? (I will ignore the commercial realities in the area in the 80's and 90's in East Downtown for expedience)

    So do the intelligent thing and put it somewhere in which it can benefit the most people most of the time, and a centrally located facility with lots of access from many modes of transportation is ideal. As you all argue, there is more than football 10 days a year there.

    I get you all want 1,000,000 acres to tailgate on. But its not the best decision for location.

    It belongs in the city center and continue to strengthen Minneapolis and the Twin Cities as a whole by not fragmenting the major entertainment venues just so ZygiWorld can be created and then watch more half empty corporate stores and corporate restaurants languish in Arden Hills.
    Last edited by Webby; 04-04-2012 at 10:51 PM.

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