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  1. #41
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    When you have a SS grade out 24th Overall/26th vs run/14th vs rush/38th in coverage out of 88 S's you don't have an issue at S.

    What you have is a bunch of yutz fans and reporters who don't have a clue what the role of a SS is and how great a role that plays in the ability of your FS to look great in pass coverage.
    Perhaps a little context for clarity. The assumption Rhodes needs to turn the corner quickly, may be true. I simply pointed out that the Vikings have far greater concerns trying to convert Robinson from an outside coverage corner to the nickel or slot coverage corner.
    Though not as significant a concern, the play of Sanford, though improved, is still lacking.

    From the article:
    "Despite Sanford's production, the Vikings could use a little more from the second safety spot, which compiled zero interceptions between Sanford and Raymond.

    The pair appeared to struggle in coverage overall, allowing opposing quarterbacks to covert three of every five passes (21-of-35) for five touchdowns and a 127.9 average QB rating."

    I understand there will be a disparity in stats between the SS, and FS. However, I don't think it is any more than rationalization for average or below average performance. And unlike some internet expert who bought a book about football, I agree with the "yutz writer".

    I'll wear my "yutz fan" badge with honor considering you are the one placing me on that spread sheet my friend !

  2. #42
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Perhaps a little context for clarity. The assumption Rhodes needs to turn the corner quickly, may be true. I simply pointed out that the Vikings have far greater concerns trying to convert Robinson from an outside coverage corner to the nickel or slot coverage corner.
    Though not as significant a concern, the play of Sanford, though improved, is still lacking.

    From the article:
    "Despite Sanford's production, the Vikings could use a little more from the second safety spot, which compiled zero interceptions between Sanford and Raymond.

    The pair appeared to struggle in coverage overall, allowing opposing quarterbacks to covert three of every five passes (21-of-35) for five touchdowns and a 127.9 average QB rating."

    I understand there will be a disparity in stats between the SS, and FS. However, I don't think it is any more than rationalization for average or below average performance. And unlike some internet expert who bought a book about football, I agree with the "yutz writer".

    I'll wear my "yutz fan" badge with honor considering you are the one placing me on that spread sheet my friend !
    We are all yutz's my friend with me being the yutziness.....

    Again, go back and re-read what you just posted. Your concern is exclusively centered on pass coverage even your SS (mostly used in run support) graded out alot higher than most FS (who are used in pass coverage).

    That means, even though the writer (who is really the yutz not you) would like to have better pass coverage out of his SS, most teams would kill to have our SS.

    On a side not, I bet that the guy who bought the book knows more than the yutz reporter who clearly demonstrated that he didn't by writing such drivel.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    We are all yutz's my friend with me being the yutziness.....

    Again, go back and re-read what you just posted. Your concern is exclusively centered on pass coverage even your SS (mostly used in run support) graded out alot higher than most FS (who are used in pass coverage).

    That means, even though the writer (who is really the yutz not you) would like to have better pass coverage out of his SS, most teams would kill to have our SS.

    On a side not, I bet that the guy who bought the book knows more than the yutz reporter who clearly demonstrated that he didn't by writing such drivel.
    Supposedly the Vikings base defense is a Tampa-2 in which there is no FS/SS distinction. I do agree that Sanford did play in SS type role (TE side, closer to the line) quite often. I suspect this was based on his strength and the willingness to allow more man/press coverage. Going forward I can see this trend continuing.

    However, I do believe that both safeties have to be proficient in both pass coverage or they will be exploited. According to this homeless wino that most people think is the greatest football mind of our time, here's what the state of the art at Safety in the NFL requires (no matter the scheme).

    Belichick breaks down safety roles - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    "Offenses have done a much better job of making the strong safety play free safety and making the free safety play strong safety, and they don't let defensive players get comfortable where they want to play," said Belichick. "They make them play where they don't want to play. That kind of made the defenses transition away from [strict designation of strong and free safety responsibilities]...

  4. #44
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Supposedly the Vikings base defense is a Tampa-2 in which there is no FS/SS distinction. I do agree that Sanford did play in SS type role (TE side, closer to the line) quite often. I suspect this was based on his strength and the willingness to allow more man/press coverage. Going forward I can see this trend continuing.

    However, I do believe that both safeties have to be proficient in both pass coverage or they will be exploited. According to this homeless wino that most people think is the greatest football mind of our time, here's what the state of the art at Safety in the NFL requires (no matter the scheme).

    Belichick breaks down safety roles - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
    I agree with you in total, especially since Leslie always said so, but since last year you hear him using FS and SS alot more.

    Could be that our new D-coord has changed things up a bit perhaps?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I agree with you in total, especially since Leslie always said so, but since last year you hear him using FS and SS alot more.

    Could be that our new D-coord has changed things up a bit perhaps?
    I think they would like to change things up, if the talent allows it. I think they've been trying for a couple of years, but due to a number of factors like failing to keep Cook in the lineup, Josh's struggles later in the season and many FA's not working out, they have been forced to retreat to more conservative zone coverages to try and limit the damage.

    The last two years we invested first round draft picks on defensive backs. I think you have to go back 20 years or so before you see us using a first round pick on a DB. Both Cook and Rhodes look to have the right skillsets to play more man/press coverage, so I do think you will see our defense continue to evolve and the secondary play won't continue to be an afterthought.

  6. #46
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post

    The last two years we invested first round draft picks on defensive backs. I think you have to go back 20 years or so before you see us using a first round pick on a DB. Both Cook and Rhodes look to have the right skillsets to play more man/press coverage, so I do think you will see our defense continue to evolve and the secondary play won't continue to be an afterthought.
    I hope so. I have been waiting impatiently since the days of Browner for a secondary that puts fear in an opposing defense. This is looking like the start of something fun.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I think they would like to change things up, if the talent allows it. I think they've been trying for a couple of years, but due to a number of factors like failing to keep Cook in the lineup, Josh's struggles later in the season and many FA's not working out, they have been forced to retreat to more conservative zone coverages to try and limit the damage.

    The last two years we invested first round draft picks on defensive backs. I think you have to go back 20 years or so before you see us using a first round pick on a DB. Both Cook and Rhodes look to have the right skillsets to play more man/press coverage, so I do think you will see our defense continue to evolve and the secondary play won't continue to be an afterthought.
    Good points on some of the road blocks........Your probably spot on.

    You know what we did this year don't you????????? Comeon, say it, say it.......

    They addressed the most important position in the first round and the second most important position right after that......

    I might be the only one but I am here to tell you I can't wait to see Shariff strap it on and bow up after some NFL strength conditioning and coaching.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Good points on some of the road blocks........Your probably spot on.

    You know what we did this year don't you????????? Comeon, say it, say it.......

    They addressed the most important position in the first round and the second most important position right after that......

    I might be the only one but I am here to tell you I can't wait to see Shariff strap it on and bow up after some NFL strength conditioning and coaching.
    I think many folks were excited when Sharif fell to us, I think he will have a significant impact this year, even if in a limited role.

    How about the 3rd most important position after that? Patterson should add a lot of excitement as well, I was actually hoping for Hopkins on that pick as I thought a more polished receiver would help with Ponder. But Patterson is very intriguing and I'm sure will get a lot of the action that was given to Harvin last year.

    Of the first round picks, Rhodes is the least amount of risk IMO. I think he will be a solid corner and contribute from day one.

    All 3 extremely athletic for their respective positions.

  9. #49
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I think many folks were excited when Sharif fell to us, I think he will have a significant impact this year, even if in a limited role.

    How about the 3rd most important position after that? Patterson should add a lot of excitement as well, I was actually hoping for Hopkins on that pick as I thought a more polished receiver would help with Ponder. But Patterson is very intriguing and I'm sure will get a lot of the action that was given to Harvin last year.

    Of the first round picks, Rhodes is the least amount of risk IMO. I think he will be a solid corner and contribute from day one.

    All 3 extremely athletic for their respective positions.
    I think it says alot about were we are in our Passing Attack, at least from the staffs standpoint. They took a chance on a kid that needs lots of development to become a true threat. I actually thought they would go the other way snag Hunter, who by all accounts, was the most polished route runner and should be able to come right in and play the X, Y and Z positions with very little work.

    I was involved in a discussion with a guy on another site and he took that thought (about Patterson) to the next level......He started to talk about QB's developing WR's and pointed out at how quickly Jarius was brought up to speed.

    Believe it or not, he had the audacity to give young Ponder some credit for how quickly that happened. He seems to think that Ponder should be able to get in synch with Patterson just as quickly.

    Doesn't that concept fly in the face that almost every talking head and yutz analyst is saying about our QB.

    Edit: That is why I'm so intrigued with what the Pats (and Brady) are going to do this year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #50
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    Just a pair of clips from last week to take a peak at what the Vikings gained and lost in the off season
    Pop-up INT for Minnesota Vikings safety Jamarca Sanford - NFL Videos

    Pre Wk 2 Can't Miss Play: First of many - NFL Videos

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