Vikings Must Stick With Ponder

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Originally Posted by bleedpurple

TRUE!! I agree.. ppl were ready for TJack's head in the second year, esp. bc he kept getting hurt...

Tjack played about on par or a little better than Ponder to this point.. although, I see better accuracy from Ponder...

With that said, we reached (I mean drafted) Ponder in the 1st round at No.12 overall for whatever reason. He was supposed to be the most NFL ready and mature qb coming out of that draft and he hasn't been anything close to looking like a quality starting caliber Qb... He will probably get better with time... but with that said, our best players are wasting their best years away while this putz tries to figure out how to play quarterback...

I've never really been a fan... I see his ceiling as an Alex Smith type qb.. regardless of how much better he gets... He's NOT a Franchise caliber QB who's going to put this team on his back and take us to a superbowl.. if we ever are good enough to win one.. it will be a Trent Dilfer situation where Ponder essentially "Does no Harm".... we will have to win with defense and elite playmakers on offense... We have way too many holes for that to happen.. we're better off trying to get the QB situation right...

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Any proposals?

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Originally Posted by tastywaves

Any proposals?

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This would be my plan....

Give Ponder the rest of the year and grade him out... next year in the offseason I would look at drafting a QB in the first round if we have a low enough pick to draft a top tier one coming out of college that can make all the throws...

If not, I would look at drafting a receiver or two in the draft, one in the first round and one in the later rounds.... to get more weapons on offense. As a stop gap if Vick gets cut by the Eagles, I'd look at bringing him in as a stop gap until either Ponder develops further or we can draft one... with our running game and offensive line I think he could make us competitive enough to challenge in the playoffs with the right playcalling...

but unless we get a really high draft pick I think it will be hard to get a true franchise qb good enough to make us competitive enough to make a run at the super bowl...

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Originally Posted by bleedpurple

This would be my plan....

Give Ponder the rest of the year and grade him out... next year in the offseason I would look at drafting a QB in the first round if we have a low enough pick to draft a top tier one coming out of college that can make all the throws...

If not, I would look at drafting a receiver or two in the draft, one in the first round and one in the later rounds.... to get more weapons on offense. As a stop gap if Vick gets cut by the Eagles, I'd look at bringing him in as a stop gap until either Ponder develops further or we can draft one... with our running game and offensive line I think he could make us competitive enough to challenge in the playoffs with the right playcalling...

but unless we get a really high draft pick I think it will be hard to get a true franchise qb good enough to make us competitive enough to make a run at the super bowl...

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I would not be surprised if that is the current thinking of the Vikings...with the exception of Vick. I really think the Vick stock is in the toilet right now and he will have a hard time finding another starting gig. I don't know that he allows the vikings to develop in a way that leads to long term success. I thought McNabb made a lot of sense when they brought him in, but man did that one backfire. Since then, I've taken a stance of just say no to former Eagles QB's.

The biggest detriment to Vick's development IMO, is his self admitted work ethic. He simply doesn't spend the time in the film room that is needed to continue to develop. This is especially true with aging QB's, they need to win with their heads more than their bodies as they age. His physical gifts in the end are probably his undoing. Cam may be on the same road if he doesn't figure it out soon.

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Originally Posted by tastywaves

I would not be surprised if that is the current thinking of the Vikings...with the exception of Vick. I really think the Vick stock is in the toilet right now and he will have a hard time finding another starting gig. I don't know that he allows the vikings to develop in a way that leads to long term success. I thought McNabb made a lot of sense when they brought him in, but man did that one backfire. Since then, I've taken a stance of just say no to former Eagles QB's.

The biggest detriment to Vick's development IMO, is his self admitted work ethic. He simply doesn't spend the time in the film room that is needed to continue to develop. This is especially true with aging QB's, they need to win with their heads more than their bodies as they age. His physical gifts in the end are probably his undoing. Cam may be on the same road if he doesn't figure it out soon.

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While I see your Vick argument... the eagles woe's aren't all his fault... 1. their offensive line is one of the worst in the league.. DId you see the game this past week against the Saints? He had no time to throw.. plus they have 1 starter on the line.. the other 4 guys are hurt. 2. Andy doesn't help him by running the ball more. I think in our offense Vick would be more than capable of playing well here.

Additionally, there is no other QB that's probably gonna be available in the offseason outside of the draft. So unless we get an early pick. a top tier QB won't be an option. making Vick the best one.

With the season he is having, the eagles are going to let him go making him available at a reasonable price. I think it's either that or re-up with Ponder for season 3.... I dont' see many other options at this point.

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Originally Posted by bleedpurple

This would be my plan....

Give Ponder the rest of the year and grade him out... next year in the offseason I would look at drafting a QB in the first round if we have a low enough pick to draft a top tier one coming out of college that can make all the throws...

If not, I would look at drafting a receiver or two in the draft, one in the first round and one in the later rounds.... to get more weapons on offense. As a stop gap if Vick gets cut by the Eagles, I'd look at bringing him in as a stop gap until either Ponder develops further or we can draft one... with our running game and offensive line I think he could make us competitive enough to challenge in the playoffs with the right playcalling...

but unless we get a really high draft pick I think it will be hard to get a true franchise qb good enough to make us competitive enough to make a run at the super bowl...

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This is a great post.

I don't know if Vick is the stop gap we need, but I think you can insert almost any journeyman QB in that spot.

A lot depends on where we fall in the draft. Of course, I still expect us to pick 32nd in 2013... :D

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Originally Posted by tastywaves

I would not be surprised if that is the current thinking of the Vikings...with the exception of Vick. I really think the Vick stock is in the toilet right now and he will have a hard time finding another starting gig. I don't know that he allows the vikings to develop in a way that leads to long term success. I thought McNabb made a lot of sense when they brought him in, but man did that one backfire. Since then, I've taken a stance of just say no to former Eagles QB's.

The biggest detriment to Vick's development IMO, is his self admitted work ethic. He simply doesn't spend the time in the film room that is needed to continue to develop. This is especially true with aging QB's, they need to win with their heads more than their bodies as they age. His physical gifts in the end are probably his undoing. Cam may be on the same road if he doesn't figure it out soon.

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I agree with most of this post but you wrong about his film study. He talked about what he did in Atlanta but with the eagles it has been exceptional.

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Originally Posted by kevoncox

I agree with most of this post but you wrong about his film study. He talked about what he did in Atlanta but with the eagles it has been exceptional.

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If that's the case, then he's not learning much from it. Read any article on him from this year and they will continue to criticize his ability to recognize the blitz, especially from the DB's, which apparently is every defenses favorite maneuver against him. They still say he can't read a defense, has poor pocket awareness and doesn't call the appropriate check downs.

I do agree that their OL play is pathetic this year, but as we are seeing here in MN, that is generally aided by poor QB play. Elevate the QB play and you will see the OL miraculously start to play better. Another interesting stat I saw on Vick is that this year is his second best sack percentage (as in less sacks) of his career. He has always been pressured heavily, probably because he prefers to beat teams long vs. short quick passes.

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Originally Posted by tastywaves

If that's the case, then he's not learning much from it. Read any article on him from this year and they will continue to criticize his ability to recognize the blitz, especially from the DB's, which apparently is every defenses favorite maneuver against him. They still say he can't read a defense, has poor pocket awareness and doesn't call the appropriate check downs.

I do agree that their OL play is pathetic this year, but as we are seeing here in MN, that is generally aided by poor QB play. Elevate the QB play and you will see the OL miraculously start to play better. Another interesting stat I saw on Vick is that this year is his second best sack percentage (as in less sacks) of his career. He has always been pressured heavily, probably because he prefers to beat teams long vs. short quick passes.

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He does have issues with the blitz but you help a QB like that with extra blockers and backs. He is still better than half the Qbs in the league including our own Ponder.

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Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

A couple years ago TJ was in his fifth season as a pro, While right now Ponder is in his second as a pro. We have reason to be hopeful Ponder will turn into something servicable, while we saw the best TJ had to offer.

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A couple of years ago, Favre was starting for us, not Jackson.

3 years ago Favre was starting for us, not Jackson

4 years ago (2008), Jackson started for us for the first two games of the season. The hate fest for him started 2 years prior to that in his rookie year. It grew larger in the beginning of 2007 after his 3rd start that year with bashing threads about his accuracy, jump pass, eyes, sliding head first, hanging on to the ball to long, injury prone, any INT, any fumble, even after an incomplete pass, etc.., etc..

The "Who's tired of the T-Jack" project was started after his 7th or 8th start.

The hate fest grew to epic proportions after losing to the Packers on opening day of 2008 & was there was dozens of hate threads started by that time. Very damn few here wanted to let him finish a second year of starting.

To put it into perspective, that game was Jackson's 15th start. At that point he was 8-7 as a starter. Last Sunday was Ponder's 19th start. His record is 7-12.

When a few of us wanted the Vikings to let Jackson finish the 2008 year after 16 starts, we were chastised & were asked, "How many starts does he need?"

C Mac D is spot on. The double standard is blatantly obvious & the hatred show towards Jackson compared to the mild displeasure shown towards Ponder is like night & day despite Ponder having had more chances than Jackson did at that point in his career when Childress knee-jerked & switched to Frerotte.

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Originally Posted by singersp

A couple of years ago, Favre was starting for us, not Jackson.

3 years ago Favre was starting for us, not Jackson

4 years ago (2008), Jackson started for us for the first two games of the season. The hate fest for him started 2 years prior to that in his rookie year. It grew larger in the beginning of 2007 after his 3rd start that year with bashing threads about his accuracy, jump pass, eyes, sliding head first, hanging on to the ball to long, injury prone, any INT, any fumble, even after an incomplete pass, etc.., etc..

The "Who's tired of the T-Jack" project was started after his 7th or 8th start.

The hate fest grew to epic proportions after losing to the Packers on opening day of 2008 & was there was dozens of hate threads started by that time. Very damn few here wanted to let him finish a second year of starting.

To put it into perspective, that game was Jackson's 15th start. At that point he was 8-7 as a starter. Last Sunday was Ponder's 19th start. His record is 7-12.

When a few of us wanted the Vikings to let Jackson finish the 2008 year after 16 starts, we were chastised & were asked, "How many starts does he need?"

C Mac D is spot on. The double standard is blatantly obvious & the hatred show towards Jackson compared to the mild displeasure shown towards Ponder is like night & day despite Ponder having had more chances than Jackson did at that point in his career when Childress knee-jerked & switched to Frerotte.

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And the "Who's tired of Ponder" project started last year. A very good start by Ponder was enough to quiet the critics at the beginning of the season, but he has sucked it up enough lately to have them out in force again.

Whether you like to believe it or not, there is no double standard - the fans here are just as critical of Ponder as they have been of TJack. Both of them were relatively supported (with some obvious exceptions) until about halfway through their second season.

Maybe double standard doesn't know what you think it does. ;) Or more likely, because you were pro-jackson and not so pro-Ponder, you noticed the attacks on Jackson more. But they are all still there.

I will say the same thing now for Ponder as I did for Jackson - he needs to finish out the year. It is too early to tell if he is in his sophomore slump or if this is a trend. There are also other factors that are contributing to the lack of offensive performance, just like with TJack. But right now, the biggest problem is the QB play (just like with TJack), and that needs to improve ASAP for Ponder to be in the conversation next year.