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  1. #21
    gagarr's Avatar
    gagarr is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Vikings' midseason grades: So Favre, so good

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    "purple_glory_dreamer" wrote:
    I think special teams should be higher....atleast B-

    I also dont know that Coaching gets an A...personnel wise they have definitely earned it....but we have been out-coached in the 4th quarter in a lot of games.
    That aspect I think comes back ont eh coach and not being able to make game adjustments.
    I think they need toi be putting teams away in the 3rd quarter to really get an A.
    These next 3 weeks will allow us to do that.
    Out coached in the 4th quarter or out executed?
    What have you seen more of... the opposing offense coming out and doing something radically different in the 4th quarter that knocks us on our heels... wildcat... no huddle... reverses, screens, half back tosses, flea flickers...
    Frankly, I haven't seen that... what I've seen is our D take a step back to prevent the big play which is fine... it makes for a higher completion % but as long as they make the tackles the clock gets drained and we tighten up inside the 20... problem is we haven't been making the tackles.
    That extra step the DB and S have to take because of the softer coverage is messing up their fundamentals.
    Most coaches are going to guard against big plays with a comfortable lead, no fast scores, that sloppiness is on the players not the coaches.

    Beyond that... what about the 1st 3 quarters?
    Who gets the nod for putting us in position to win games after 3 quarters?
    Who gets acknowledgement for scoring in 6 out of 8 games (or something close) in the 1st possession after half time?
    Who gets credit for avoiding the St Louis trap game that we'd have lost in the Tice years... hell, we lost to four 4-12 teams in ONE year under meat head.
    Who gets credit for having our players ready to play 3 back to back to back tough games, 2 on the road, without our Pro Bowl CB, and having us make it 2 - 1 and a few big D plays away from being 3 - 0?

    People, it's time to stop bashing Childress.
    I get it, he's not the most dynamic personality... he could put someone hoped up on Speed and a full case of energy drinks to sleep in about 5 minutes with his voice.. but HE is the one who has this team 7 - 1... he IS the one who has had this team ready to play week in and week out.
    beeyatch and moan all you want about individual plays and decisions throughout the year but you'll see the same thing from every other coach in the league if you watch enough football.
    What many of us fail to realize is that they don't have perfect information on the field, there is an incredible time crunch to make decisions, not to mention immense pressure.
    It's easy to play armchair head coach from home, I can't even imagine what it's like to be on that sideline Sunday.
    Great freaking post!
    I am glad to see some people coming around and see the good he has done for this team versus what they perceive as a bad decision here or there in a game.
    Just because people or I don't agree with calls doesn't mean it was a bad play call or decision.
    It means that maybe we would have done it differently.
    Who's to tell what wouold have worked and what wouldn't?


    People get mad for having a "vanilla offense" yet when they throw the ball on the goal line and it doesn't work they get mad for not giving the ball to AP.
    What the fail to take into consideration they have scored by throwing like that before (so that's okay) and / or the fact AP was already given 2 chances to score and didn't.
    I've seen is our D take a step back to prevent the big play which is fine
    No it's not!
    You got the lead by being aggressive, so why change?
    Because the opponent might score?
    Well they did because YOU changed your plan.
    What a dominante D, they go for the throat and hang on.
    Vikes haven't goose egged a team since 1993.

    Tice years
    Comparing anyone to Tice is comparing them to a average coach with horrible owners.
    Compare Chilly to Dennis Green, Mike Tomlin, Brian Billick, Tony Dungy... other Viking coaches/coordinators that have done something, not a cheap coach picked by a cheaper bastard.

    People get mad for having a "vanilla offense" yet when they throw the ball on the goal line and it doesn't work they get mad for not giving the ball to AP.
    Passing at the goal line isn't spicy to me.
    A reverse is a bit spicier, especially when teams are racing to hold the edge against AD on a sweep.
    Or spicier yet a flea flicker, especially when safties have one eye on AD.

    It would be nice if the spicier plays resulted in big yards, but what they will do is give Dcoord something to plan for and might slow down the race to the edge the next time AD sweeps and fakes the reverse.
    Just 3-4 plays a game, they don't have to be a Wildcat.
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  2. #22
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings' midseason grades: So Favre, so good

    "gagarr" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    "purple_glory_dreamer" wrote:
    I think special teams should be higher....atleast B-

    I also dont know that Coaching gets an A...personnel wise they have definitely earned it....but we have been out-coached in the 4th quarter in a lot of games.
    That aspect I think comes back ont eh coach and not being able to make game adjustments.
    I think they need toi be putting teams away in the 3rd quarter to really get an A.
    These next 3 weeks will allow us to do that.
    Out coached in the 4th quarter or out executed?
    What have you seen more of... the opposing offense coming out and doing something radically different in the 4th quarter that knocks us on our heels... wildcat... no huddle... reverses, screens, half back tosses, flea flickers...
    Frankly, I haven't seen that... what I've seen is our D take a step back to prevent the big play which is fine... it makes for a higher completion % but as long as they make the tackles the clock gets drained and we tighten up inside the 20... problem is we haven't been making the tackles.
    That extra step the DB and S have to take because of the softer coverage is messing up their fundamentals.
    Most coaches are going to guard against big plays with a comfortable lead, no fast scores, that sloppiness is on the players not the coaches.

    Beyond that... what about the 1st 3 quarters?
    Who gets the nod for putting us in position to win games after 3 quarters?
    Who gets acknowledgement for scoring in 6 out of 8 games (or something close) in the 1st possession after half time?
    Who gets credit for avoiding the St Louis trap game that we'd have lost in the Tice years... hell, we lost to four 4-12 teams in ONE year under meat head.
    Who gets credit for having our players ready to play 3 back to back to back tough games, 2 on the road, without our Pro Bowl CB, and having us make it 2 - 1 and a few big D plays away from being 3 - 0?

    People, it's time to stop bashing Childress.
    I get it, he's not the most dynamic personality... he could put someone hoped up on Speed and a full case of energy drinks to sleep in about 5 minutes with his voice.. but HE is the one who has this team 7 - 1... he IS the one who has had this team ready to play week in and week out.
    beeyatch and moan all you want about individual plays and decisions throughout the year but you'll see the same thing from every other coach in the league if you watch enough football.
    What many of us fail to realize is that they don't have perfect information on the field, there is an incredible time crunch to make decisions, not to mention immense pressure.
    It's easy to play armchair head coach from home, I can't even imagine what it's like to be on that sideline Sunday.
    Great freaking post!
    I am glad to see some people coming around and see the good he has done for this team versus what they perceive as a bad decision here or there in a game.
    Just because people or I don't agree with calls doesn't mean it was a bad play call or decision.
    It means that maybe we would have done it differently.
    Who's to tell what wouold have worked and what wouldn't?


    People get mad for having a "vanilla offense" yet when they throw the ball on the goal line and it doesn't work they get mad for not giving the ball to AP.
    What the fail to take into consideration they have scored by throwing like that before (so that's okay) and / or the fact AP was already given 2 chances to score and didn't.
    I've seen is our D take a step back to prevent the big play which is fine
    No it's not!
    You got the lead by being aggressive, so why change?
    Because the opponent might score?
    Well they did because YOU changed your plan.

    What a dominante D, they go for the throat and hang on.
    Vikes haven't goose egged a team since 1993.

    Tice years
    Comparing anyone to Tice is comparing them to a average coach with horrible owners.
    Compare Chilly to Dennis Green, Mike Tomlin, Brian Billick, Tony Dungy... other Viking coaches/coordinators that have done something, not a cheap coach picked by a cheaper bastard.

    People get mad for having a "vanilla offense" yet when they throw the ball on the goal line and it doesn't work they get mad for not giving the ball to AP.
    Passing at the goal line isn't spicy to me.
    A reverse is a bit spicier, especially when teams are racing to hold the edge against AD on a sweep.
    Or spicier yet a flea flicker, especially when safties have one eye on AD.

    It would be nice if the spicier plays resulted in big yards, but what they will do is give Dcoord something to plan for and might slow down the race to the edge the next time AD sweeps and fakes the reverse.
    Just 3-4 plays a game, they don't have to be a Wildcat.
    I agree with your last paragraph that you quoted me on gagarr but remember I was actually talking about goal line offense.
    I used the example of people calling this a vanilla offense yet scream because they don't give AP the ball when other teams are expecting them to.
    It's all about people trying to blame Childress for everything and anything that goes wrong yet not giving him props when it goes right.
    There is a big double standard on this site when it comes to Childress.


    To your point I would love to start seeing more "spicier" plays such as flea-flickers and end arounds.
    I think they have used it a little with Haarvin but not enough imo.
    Still I think the decisions and play calling this year have been pretty good except for a few decisions here and there.
    Basically just like any other good team that is out there yet Childress will be the scapegoat for anything that doesn't work out as planned regardless of whether it is execution on the players or lack there of.

  3. #23
    gagarr's Avatar
    gagarr is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,411

    Re: Vikings' midseason grades: So Favre, so good

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "gagarr" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    "purple_glory_dreamer" wrote:
    I think special teams should be higher....atleast B-

    I also dont know that Coaching gets an A...personnel wise they have definitely earned it....but we have been out-coached in the 4th quarter in a lot of games.
    That aspect I think comes back ont eh coach and not being able to make game adjustments.
    I think they need toi be putting teams away in the 3rd quarter to really get an A.
    These next 3 weeks will allow us to do that.
    Out coached in the 4th quarter or out executed?
    What have you seen more of... the opposing offense coming out and doing something radically different in the 4th quarter that knocks us on our heels... wildcat... no huddle... reverses, screens, half back tosses, flea flickers...
    Frankly, I haven't seen that... what I've seen is our D take a step back to prevent the big play which is fine... it makes for a higher completion % but as long as they make the tackles the clock gets drained and we tighten up inside the 20... problem is we haven't been making the tackles.
    That extra step the DB and S have to take because of the softer coverage is messing up their fundamentals.
    Most coaches are going to guard against big plays with a comfortable lead, no fast scores, that sloppiness is on the players not the coaches.

    Beyond that... what about the 1st 3 quarters?
    Who gets the nod for putting us in position to win games after 3 quarters?
    Who gets acknowledgement for scoring in 6 out of 8 games (or something close) in the 1st possession after half time?
    Who gets credit for avoiding the St Louis trap game that we'd have lost in the Tice years... hell, we lost to four 4-12 teams in ONE year under meat head.
    Who gets credit for having our players ready to play 3 back to back to back tough games, 2 on the road, without our Pro Bowl CB, and having us make it 2 - 1 and a few big D plays away from being 3 - 0?

    People, it's time to stop bashing Childress.
    I get it, he's not the most dynamic personality... he could put someone hoped up on Speed and a full case of energy drinks to sleep in about 5 minutes with his voice.. but HE is the one who has this team 7 - 1... he IS the one who has had this team ready to play week in and week out.
    beeyatch and moan all you want about individual plays and decisions throughout the year but you'll see the same thing from every other coach in the league if you watch enough football.
    What many of us fail to realize is that they don't have perfect information on the field, there is an incredible time crunch to make decisions, not to mention immense pressure.
    It's easy to play armchair head coach from home, I can't even imagine what it's like to be on that sideline Sunday.
    Great freaking post!
    I am glad to see some people coming around and see the good he has done for this team versus what they perceive as a bad decision here or there in a game.
    Just because people or I don't agree with calls doesn't mean it was a bad play call or decision.
    It means that maybe we would have done it differently.
    Who's to tell what wouold have worked and what wouldn't?


    People get mad for having a "vanilla offense" yet when they throw the ball on the goal line and it doesn't work they get mad for not giving the ball to AP.
    What the fail to take into consideration they have scored by throwing like that before (so that's okay) and / or the fact AP was already given 2 chances to score and didn't.
    I've seen is our D take a step back to prevent the big play which is fine
    No it's not!
    You got the lead by being aggressive, so why change?
    Because the opponent might score?
    Well they did because YOU changed your plan.

    What a dominante D, they go for the throat and hang on.
    Vikes haven't goose egged a team since 1993.

    Tice years
    Comparing anyone to Tice is comparing them to a average coach with horrible owners.
    Compare Chilly to Dennis Green, Mike Tomlin, Brian Billick, Tony Dungy... other Viking coaches/coordinators that have done something, not a cheap coach picked by a cheaper bastard.

    People get mad for having a "vanilla offense" yet when they throw the ball on the goal line and it doesn't work they get mad for not giving the ball to AP.
    Passing at the goal line isn't spicy to me.
    A reverse is a bit spicier, especially when teams are racing to hold the edge against AD on a sweep.
    Or spicier yet a flea flicker, especially when safties have one eye on AD.

    It would be nice if the spicier plays resulted in big yards, but what they will do is give Dcoord something to plan for and might slow down the race to the edge the next time AD sweeps and fakes the reverse.
    Just 3-4 plays a game, they don't have to be a Wildcat.
    I agree with your last paragraph that you quoted me on gagarr but remember I was actually talking about goal line offense.
    I used the example of people calling this a vanilla offense yet scream because they don't give AP the ball when other teams are expecting them to.
    It's all about people trying to blame Childress for everything and anything that goes wrong yet not giving him props when it goes right.
    There is a big double standard on this site when it comes to Childress.


    To your point I would love to start seeing more "spicier" plays such as flea-flickers and end arounds.
    I think they have used it a little with Haarvin but not enough imo.
    Still I think the decisions and play calling this year have been pretty good except for a few decisions here and there.
    Basically just like any other good team that is out there yet Childress will be the scapegoat for anything that doesn't work out as planned regardless of whether it is execution on the players or lack there of.
    I think the goal line issue isn't with the playcalling as much as with AD.
    He's a great back, but he's 6-1 217.
    He's not a pile pusher.
    I've been hoping for a 5'10" 225-235 pile pusher for the goalline.
    But I'm also glad they haven't used Tahi or Dugan in that role much.
    They don't have the instincts or athletic ability to leap the pile if needed.

    The O plays that are called are executed extremely well, that makes them effective.
    I'll give Chilly that.
    But I would never hold Chilly at fault for a spicer play that went bad.
    It's the nature of the plays, they hit big as much as they flop.
    i.e. Pitt (or was it the Ravens) ran 3 reverses, first one worked great, but the next 2 flopped.
    Good adjustment by the Vikes, but I imagine a well executed fake would have paid dividends in getting the LB's to jump.

    If the Vikes ran a flea flicker or double reverse I missed it.
    Have there been more than 2-3 wildcats?

    What I've always said about Chilly is he's getting the job done. I just think there are a few coaches out there that could do wonders with the talent on this team, but I think Chilly will be doing enough to keep his job.
    I still need to see him win a big game with confidence, GB doesn't count they are average at best.


    If the Vikes can dominate the Bengals, who IMO, is the last really good team that the Vikes have left.
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

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