Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 40 of 40
  1. #31
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    With that said, it seems to me it could be very costly & difficult to upgrade your seats, which many season ticket holders try to do.

    If after a couple of years you want to upgrade your 2 seats that you paid a $4,000 PSL fee for, you're not only going to take a huge loss on that fee when you try to resell it, but you now have to buy yet another higher price PSL seating to make that upgrade.

    So if you had purchased two $75 seats with a PSL of $4,000 ($2,000 ea) & you sold the PSL's 2 years later for half price to make an upgrade, those $75 seats just cost you $125 ea for every game you had over that 2 year period.

    Again, in our market area IMO our supply & demand on season tickets & game day tickets is similar to that in Jacksonville. There's currently & always has been plenty of season tickets to be had w/o paying PSL's & lately we can't even sell out games.

    On a side note, do ticket brokers have to purchase PSL's for all the seats they are buying to resell?

    At the end of the day, I see the number of season ticket holders declining, even with the addition of the new stadium due to the PSL fees. In our market area, in our economy, I believe it's difficult for many of the typical season ticket holders to commit to buying season tickets over the course of several decades to justify paying the PSL fees.

    If they want to see a game, they'll walk up to the ticket counter & pay face value for a $75 ticket instead of paying $100+ for a $75 ticket that it would have cost them had they purchased season tickets & amortized in the PSL costs.

    If tickets were hard to come by, which they are in several market areas where PSL's work, it might be a different story. That is not & rarely has been for Vikings games.
    Yes, ticket brokers have to buy PSLs as well.

    No, the cost of upgrading doesn't become very costly, nor is it difficult. It is actually easier because you can watch for the seats you want in the marketplace, and make an offer on the ones you want. If you aren't selling your PSLs for face value, you won't be buying the PSLs for face value (unless you're an idiot). If the market value for PSLs is higher than the face value (which is rare) you always have the option of going through the team and paying face for any available.

    Yes, season ticket sales will most likely decline at first. Although that also depends on how the Vikings set up PSLs. I know this was mentioned earlier in the post but more than one of the scenarios presented in the survey had areas like the upper deck corners and endzone excluded from PSLs. One had the entire upper bowl excluded. And despite the junk flying around in the paper, the Vikings never presented options with $10000 PSLs for anything. They did show the Cowboys PSL structure (as well as New York and San Fran) and asked for feedback on them to help determine what the market would support in PSLs. I personally like the idea of having parts of the upper bowl free of PSLs. This would encourage more sales to people who can't afford PSLs (and ticket brokers) and it would also make it easier to upgrade into PSL seats.

    And there will always be people who would rather walk up to the ticket counter & pay face value for a $75 ticket rather than the $85 it costs them now for season ticket seats because of the preseason games. If that is what you choose to do that is fine. PSLs or not, there will still be season ticket holders.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #32
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Come on man, you know better than that.
    as in...
    First of all - the Vikings don't pay for operating costs on the new stadium - no more than they do with the Metrodome. They LEASE the stadium. The Stadium Authority, similar to the MSFC, will handle operating costs.
    In the end the FANS are who are paying the cost of the stadium whether it is through higher ticket prices, higher costs on concessions, parking, or whatever they use to fund it. The point remains the same. We took on an additional billion dollars in costs and they need to be paid by the fans in one way or the other. Whether the fans give it to Ziggy and he pays it or they py it to the state and they pay it is academic. In the end they will not build a new stadium of that price and not see prices go up by a pretty big chunk.




    Second, as has been the case for, oh 20 years or so, the NFL has revenue sharing in place for standard tickets. Hiking the cost of standard tickets will NOT result in some significant increase in revenue to the Vikings. So your argument that the Vikings will have to hike prices on tickets to help cover their lease or operating expenses is not valid. The plan to help supplant the extra cost of lease (which in turn funds operating expenses) is to have many, many more non-revenue sharing seats such as club seats and suites. In fact, that was the whole point of the new stadium - because the metrodome couldn't support enough non-revenue sharing seats.
    And you think by changing the name of a seat from a general admission seat that is subject to revenue sharing and renaming it a club seat that carries a PSL is not going to change the amount that seat costs compared to what it cost in the dome? I know you are better than that.


    One of the big reasons for nfl revenue sharing was to be able to offer tickets at prices that would be able to sell out stadiums regardless of the market. New York and Dallas can charge over a hundred dollars for the average ticket because of the market they are in. Minnesota (and most markets) cannot. Not only is there no fiscal reason to hike the prices like you are suggesting, but the market wouldn't support it.
    OK.
    So think of it this way-

    The NFL has said for years and Goodell has been here during the stadium drive making the case that the dome didn't generate enough revenue so the league had to subsidize us through the money made at other stadiums.

    In order for us to not be subsidized by the NFL and to make his case, then ticket prices HAVE to go up here to provide the revenue from this stadium that is not being generated in the dome.

    Or are you saying that we will build a new facility and still rely on a subsidy from the NFL to keep the ticket prices artificially low. If you believe that is the case then we will just need to revisit the topic when prices come out but I believe you would be very wrong. In fact, it should be the case that we would be on the other end and subsidizing the teams with older stadiums now that we have a new one.



    You don't need magic fairy dust to know that we aren't going to see $100 average tickets in Minnesota. I stand by the max of $85 average tickets.
    Well, you will need it if you think we are going to have a new stadium with hardly any additional seats and not have to raise prices to pay for it. I know you are smarter than that. It would be like saying you have an old house that was built for 50,000 dollars and is paid for but the utilities are too expensive so you want to build a 1 Million dollar house to live in and you think you can keep the payment the same as long as someone pays the utilities.The math doesn't work.

  3. #33
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    as in...


    In the end the FANS are who are paying the cost of the stadium whether it is through higher ticket prices, higher costs on concessions, parking, or whatever they use to fund it. The point remains the same. We took on an additional billion dollars in costs and they need to be paid by the fans in one way or the other. Whether the fans give it to Ziggy and he pays it or they py it to the state and they pay it is academic. In the end they will not build a new stadium of that price and not see prices go up by a pretty big chunk.
    And yet the same simply hasn't been the case with any of the other "next gen" stadiums that have been renovated or constructed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    And you think by changing the name of a seat from a general admission seat that is subject to revenue sharing and renaming it a club seat that carries a PSL is not going to change the amount that seat costs compared to what it cost in the dome? I know you are better than that.
    What on earth are you talking about? Club seats and suites are a helluva lot different than general admission seats. If the only stadiums you have for comparison are the Old Met and the metrodome, well then I can understand why you are confused. One of the optins for the club seats that has been brought up several times by the Vikings are small "opera house" style club boxes with 8-20 seats in each one. Fans in club seats would purchase their allotted number and then the entire club section would share additional amenities, such as private bathrooms or concessions. The only two club sections in the dome right now are the gridiron club and the touchdown club.

    Yes, club seats are going to cost significantly more, but they have no more place in this discussion than suite seats have.

    The Vikings aren't going to change the name of general seats to "club" seats and charge more. Nor are they going to replace all of the general seats with premium seats just to charge more. The vast majority of the seats in the new stadium will still be general seats, just like it is in every other stadium. The market wouldn't support it any other way.

    The average price for non-premium tickets - you know, the ones that pretty much everyone here will use - is not going to jump drastically in any way shape or form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    OK.
    So think of it this way-

    The NFL has said for years and Goodell has been here during the stadium drive making the case that the dome didn't generate enough revenue so the league had to subsidize us through the money made at other stadiums.

    In order for us to not be subsidized by the NFL and to make his case, then ticket prices HAVE to go up here to provide the revenue from this stadium that is not being generated in the dome.
    How can you have been a fan of this site for so long and still not understand the stadium revenue model. The Vikings make money off from non-premium seats. Standard seats go into the NFL revenue sharing pool. The problem with the metrodome (well, once of the problems) was that it did not have enough premium seats to provide a decent revenue income. The new stadium will have a lot more club seats and suites. Again, these are not the tickets we are talking about.

    But if you REALLY want to bring them into play, the suites in the Metrodome cost anywhere between $2600 and $26,000 per game depending on the size and location. Club seats cost $2500 for the season. And no, these prices won't be going up significantly either. There will just be more of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Or are you saying that we will build a new facility and still rely on a subsidy from the NFL to keep the ticket prices artificially low. If you believe that is the case then we will just need to revisit the topic when prices come out but I believe you would be very wrong. In fact, it should be the case that we would be on the other end and subsidizing the teams with older stadiums now that we have a new one.
    I think I have covered this pretty well already. See earlier comments. Also see the history on every single stadium that has opened in the past 10 years...


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Well, you will need it if you think we are going to have a new stadium with hardly any additional seats and not have to raise prices to pay for it. I know you are smarter than that. It would be like saying you have an old house that was built for 50,000 dollars and is paid for but the utilities are too expensive so you want to build a 1 Million dollar house to live in and you think you can keep the payment the same as long as someone pays the utilities.The math doesn't work.
    Sigh... Well, no, that isn't what I am saying at all...

    OK, how about we make a friendly wager. If the average ticket price does indeed jump to $160 a game like you are suggesting, I will buy you a beer and the tailgating on opening day. If they go up slightly, about a 10% - 15% jump like I am saying, you buy me one.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #34
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,266
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post

    .....How can you have been a fan of this site for so long and still not understand the stadium revenue model. The Vikings make money off from non-premium seats. Standard seats go into the NFL revenue sharing pool.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I believe standard seats are indeed non-premium seats.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #35
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I believe standard seats are indeed non-premium seats.
    lol.

    dammit.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #36
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1
    Well I am not sure how you cannot include the changes in club seats into the average ticket costs. As you said we have very few tight now but the model is generally every lower level seat in the stadium between the 20 yard lines as being premium seats. I know on the rare occasions that I do go to the games I get the lower level seats around the 30. They are not premium seats now but if they become premium seats then obviously the cost is going to go up.

    If you are only talking about nosebleed seats then refer to my earlier post about those seats being subsidized by much higher prices.

  7. #37
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Well I am not sure how you cannot include the changes in club seats into the average ticket costs. As you said we have very few tight now but the model is generally every lower level seat in the stadium between the 20 yard lines as being premium seats. I know on the rare occasions that I do go to the games I get the lower level seats around the 30. They are not premium seats now but if they become premium seats then obviously the cost is going to go up.

    If you are only talking about nosebleed seats then refer to my earlier post about those seats being subsidized by much higher prices.
    Those are not club seats. Those are regular lower level seats. Club seats are usually on the suite level. Here are the two clubs that the Vikings currently have:
    Minnesota Vikings | Premium Clubs




    The average price for non-premium (i.e. revenue sharing) tickets, which is the traditional ticket that pretty much every one thinks about, will most likely go up slightly, around 10%.

    The average price for club seats, like the ones above, will probably remain about the same, or maybe even go down. Right now it is $2500 per seat for the season. The price is tied to the market, and since these are the seats that the Vikings make the most money off from, they are probably going to fiddle with the price until they get the best ROI. Since the supply of club seats is going to drastically increase, the price cannot go up and still be viable unless demand also goes up. The Vikings will make more money with the club seats costing $2000-$2500 and having them all sold than they would charging $3000 and having only have of them sold.

    The average price of suites will likely follow the same pattern as the club seats... although these tend to be more corporate level, so who knows...

    The bottom line is that the average ticket price for non-premium seats - which includes the vast majority of the seats in the new stadium - will not see a significant price hike.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #38
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Perhaps this will clarify a little bit.

    In the new Santa Clara stadium currently under construction, there will be 68,500 total seats. Of them, approximately 60,000 will be non-premium seats, with 150 luxury suites, and 7500 premium club seats.

    This is similar to what I expect with the new stadium. I believe there is a NFL standard for minimum number of non-premium seats, but I don't know what it is off hand. I actually think it is closer to 50k, so it would probably be moot.

    The Metrodome currently has about 62,000 non-premium seats.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #39
    purplehelmut's Avatar
    purplehelmut is offline Pro-Bowler
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Central WV
    Posts
    464
    Somebody enlighten me. Are the PSLs a one-time fee or an annual fee?

  10. #40
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,777
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by purplehelmut View Post
    Somebody enlighten me. Are the PSLs a one-time fee or an annual fee?

    One-time fee. Basically it's a fee that gives you the right to buy tickets at a specific seat.

    Basically you either buy them direct from the Vikings (initial sale), or buy them from existing ticketholders. A PSL is NOT a season ticket, but simply a fee that lets you buy season tickets at a seat you own a PSL to.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •