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  1. #21
    rednorsk is offline Rookie
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    IMHO, what happened yesterday was a result of Percy Harvin being out of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Harvin. I'm blaming the coaches and Ponder of wanting to go to Harvin way too much. When Ponder went5 to multiple receivers he did a much better job. I wonder if the coaches will catch on.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    My question is - why was Wright on the bench for the first half of the season? The coaching staff thought Aromashadu and Jenkins were better offensive weapons? Really? Maybe in the run game, but neither are realistic options in the passing game.

    The coaching staff's inability to recognize/acknowledge talent on the roster seems to be a continuing theme which dates back to the Childress era and his refusal to use Sidney Rice more... who Favre had to push Childress to get more involved (I'll reference the sideline quote of Childress saying "oh, you've always said that about (Rice)" and Favre replied, "Maybe now you'll listen to me?")

    I just feel like our coaching staff is always trying to outsmart themselves and are holding back talented players in the process.
    The coaches also might be setting up their depth chart for x, y and z receivers. Jenkins and Aromashadu are x's and Wright would be more a z or y with Simpson being a z and Harvin playing a y. I'm sure you might ask why and aren't as interested in the x's and o's but that would be my guess and Marty could probably explain it all why the bigger guys play the x on the line and fight the jam etc.

    As far is using Rice goes....being healthy usually helps in getting you playing time and I don't think the Vikings drafted him in the second round cause they thought he wasn't talented

  3. #23
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    The coaches also might be setting up their depth chart for x, y and z receivers. Jenkins and Aromashadu are x's and Wright would be more a z or y with Simpson being a z and Harvin playing a y. I'm sure you might ask why and aren't as interested in the x's and o's but that would be my guess and Marty could probably explain it all why the bigger guys play the x on the line and fight the jam etc.

    As far is using Rice goes....being healthy usually helps in getting you playing time and I don't think the Vikings drafted him in the second round cause they thought he wasn't talented
    I agree with you, and I am interested in X's and O's (probably know more about them than yourself) but that simply doesn't hold water when a more talented player is on the bench. I also remember when Steve Smith was supposed to be a slot receiver... and Harvin too... both wideout's are now their team's flankers.

    Simply labeling a player because of their body type and ignoring the talent is sort of my point... the same bland 'by the books' approach you seem to adhere to is also what is holding back talented players from getting on the field.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheViking View Post
    Thoughts on moving forward? Is it too much to hope for splits with the Bears and Packers, a Rams win, and maybe a lucky win over the Texans to go and finish 10-6? Probably. I thought Ponder looked better today but there's still plenty of room for improvement. Winning without Harvin was nice and hopefully he'll be good to go against the Bears.
    Yes, that is probably too much.

    Yesterday was a complete game by the entire team, much like we saw against San Fran. It leads me to believe that if we can get a solid performance out of everyone, we can beat any team in the league - even the bears, packers, rams and texans. But I also realize that we are a fairly young team, especially at some key position. And getting four more games where everyone plays that solid at the same time is a pretty big stretch at this point.

    Don't get me wrong - it is POSSIBLE. A lot more possible today that on Saturday. Let's see another statement win against the Bears on the road, and then we can talk about playoffs.

    Next year however, I think we are going to see a lot more complete games like this one, especially if there isn't a lot of turnover at key positions... What we saw yesterday is just a preview of what is to come.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

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  5. #25
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rednorsk View Post
    IMHO, what happened yesterday was a result of Percy Harvin being out of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Harvin. I'm blaming the coaches and Ponder of wanting to go to Harvin way too much. When Ponder went5 to multiple receivers he did a much better job. I wonder if the coaches will catch on.
    Hope so. Because I think you are exactly right.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #26
    thorshammer is offline Asst. Coach
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    I've said it before. They need to take the cuffs off Ponder. Let him spread it around like this game. He played better. Nice to see a couple of longer passes. AP is not human great game. The D looked better. ST were solid. O line looked better. Pretty good all around game. Hope they work hard stay focused a string a couple more together. Tough stretch coming up ... but that's when this team seems to play better.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    I agree with you, and I am interested in X's and O's (probably know more about them than yourself) but that simply doesn't hold water when a more talented player is on the bench. I also remember when Steve Smith was supposed to be a slot receiver... and Harvin too... both wideout's are now their team's flankers.

    Simply labeling a player because of their body type and ignoring the talent is sort of my point... the same bland 'by the books' approach you seem to adhere to is also what is holding back talented players from getting on the field.
    Well when you take it to the next level and see how many times do they go out in a 21, 22 or even 23 personnel groups, rarely do we have a single back at a snap of the ball and Wright is really buried behind all our tighends, fullback and running back packages and the lack of a spread offense. If we started running more of a 2 wide 2 slot single back Wright and Burton would probably get more exposure and we should have something like this to run against the Packers 3-4 spreading there defense and exposing their LBers to coverage mismatches but we don't.

  8. #28
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    Well when you take it to the next level and see how many times do they go out in a 21, 22 or even 23 personnel groups, rarely do we have a single back at a snap of the ball and Wright is really buried behind all our tighends, fullback and running back packages and the lack of a spread offense. If we started running more of a 2 wide 2 slot single back Wright and Burton would probably get more exposure and we should have something like this to run against the Packers 3-4 spreading there defense and exposing their LBers to coverage mismatches but we don't.
    Agreed. We're trying to make our players fit a system... not fitting our system to the players' strengths.

    This was the same way it was with Childress. Absolutely no creativity or ingenuity when it comes to the roster.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  9. #29
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    A few thoughts on the game:

    Saw a lot of improvement, a bit of stuff still to work on.

    Since I'm not pessimistic whatsoever, ever, I'll start with the good.

    Good:
    AP (Don't really need to elaborate do I?)
    Blocking - Was MUCH improved. Still a few wtf moments, but was hands down the best game our OL played in quite some time, both run and pass blocking
    Receivers: Got separation, but more importantly were getting opportunities. I want to see Wright worked into our Offense more. One game does not a career make, but if he can get 3-4 good catches a game he'll be real important down the long stretch. I don't expect a 50+ bomb every game, but he's getting open, he's making plays.

    Aromashodu: I don't know what it is, maybe the hair, but it seems everytime Mush catches a ball, it "Seems" really impressive. It isn't an overly hard catch, but he just "Looks" like a star. Whatever, as long as he catches the damn ball, I'm happy.

    TE: Liked seeing Rudolph back in action after his three week hiatus (or so it seems). Loved the 20 yard catch and run, that boy can move as well as catch. Hell, even Carlson caught a ball.

    Ponder: HEre it is. I approve. He didn't wow me by any means, but he came out and played solid football. I"m never going to be disappointed by 75%, 221 yards and 2 TD's without a turnover. Good job. Still has footwork issues, namely on that long ball, had he set his feet he would have hit Wright in stride for a TD. But he got hte ball there, that's what matters. I'm not going to pretend I knew what Ponders thinking was, maybe he was worried about the rusher or being past the LOS, either way, it worked in the end. Keep up the work during Bye and we should be good.

    I think it comes down to what Ponder said in the interview (paraphrasing) "it's about not thinking of the conscequenses, and just pulling the trigger". Obviously there are times when we need him to protect the ball and not force something, but I"m ok with interceptions if they also come with touchdowns. What I"m not ok with is being hesitant, fumbling and missing receivers on short routes. If he sees a guy and can get the ball there, give it a shot if the game situation allows for it. I like to see his confidence growing, that will be especially important in this tough stretch of games coming up.

    What I'd like to see Next game is Simpson, Wright and Harvin starting the first drive with Rudolph and AP in the singleback. Abuse that formation. Get some plays to get Wright in space while defenses are focusing on Harvin. Run some NON-Fly routes with Simpson to take advantage of his quickness. Get the D thinking deep then comeback or post, those can all work well.

    Now the bad:
    Calvin Johnson. I get that he's the best receiver in the league, and we're missing our #1 corner, but we cannot allow a receiver to get 207 receiving yards. Have to switch something up. Double him, I don't care, but we can't allow that. Better teams would have destroyed us because of that alone. We did a good job against their run game, but I'd still like to see more pressure. We need to make QB's like Stafford pay.

    Our kick returning took a noticable dive with Harvin out, can't wait for him to be back. Watching him run one back in Green Bay will be fun. Kluwe seems to be getting back to where he was again. A few short ones inside the 20, a couple big ones. Outkicked his coverage on one that could have hurt us, but fortunately we managed.

    Third down efficiency. 4/15 is not acceptable. This game could have been a blowout. We need to find ways to get that percentage up. Lions got some garbage time points, this game wasn't as close as the score would indicate, but it shouldn't have even been this close. Not having Harvin hurts that, but we need people to step up. Rudolph and Wright did. Who's next?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    My question is - why was Wright on the bench for the first half of the season? The coaching staff thought Aromashadu and Jenkins were better offensive weapons? Really? Maybe in the run game, but neither are realistic options in the passing game.
    My guess is that Wright being a rookie wasn't quite ready for the full playbook. We can't pretend to sit and know what his situation is, but again, me trying to think like Musgrave, Jenkins gives Ponder a big body to throw to, Aromashodu is an athletic guy who CAN make some good plays. Wright is still very much an unknown. Neither Aromashodu nor Jenkins have been playing bad, so it's hard to justify sitting them for Wright. THey SHOULD be able to tell by watching Wright in practice if he's ready. All I know is he's ready for the role they played him in today. Is he ready to be a full-time player? None of us really know. I hope so.
    I just feel like our coaching staff is always trying to outsmart themselves and are holding back talented players in the process.
    More or less sums up my thoughts on Musgrave. He tries to get too cute with his packages/playcalling and stalls drives. Just go out, play ball and win. It's not hard. It's better to have a smaller playbook but execute well, than get overly complex with trick plays and fail as hard as we do.

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