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  1. #101
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  2. #102
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619890#msg619890 date=1187448912]
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.
    [/quote]

    I would argue that the difference lies in the fact that Griffin had a great year last year and we RARELY saw that kind of lazy tackling from him. Smoot on the other hand was consistently lazy game in and game out and consistently missed tackles. That is why I am willing to give Griffin a pass on one preseason game while I would have gotten on Smoot for a similar performance.

  3. #103
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    The biggest thing I noticed from last nights game was the speed

    The defence was really moving, the ends and linebackers seemed to be everywhere....even in the end zone with the ball ;D

    The secondary moved up during the run plays and were making hits on run support and also took the runners out at the feet a couple of times.


    The slant pass plays had quick rhythm. Petersen’s run, spin and hit for 43 yards had speed and a nice punch at the end.
    Even the O line with the screen play was nice to see, a good change from the hold the line zone blocking.

    Field goal unit rushed out with time running out in the half to get a score ;D

    Was disappointed with Bollingers play, last year when he replaced Johnson he seemed quicker, before he got injured.
    Not sure if he just had a quicker rhythm when compared to Brad, but he didn’t have any snap in his play last night.

    And kick off coverage has lots of room for improvement, with everyone else flying around on D during the game was expecting to see the same smack from the coverage team.



  4. #104
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619893#msg619893 date=1187449222]
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619890#msg619890 date=1187448912]
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.
    [/quote]

    I would argue that the difference lies in the fact that Griffin had a great year last year and we RARELY saw that kind of lazy tackling from him. Smoot on the other hand was consistently lazy game in and game out and consistently missed tackles. That is why I am willing to give Griffin a pass on one preseason game while I would have gotten on Smoot for a similar performance.
    [/quote]

    Smoot played pretty darn well in the nickle position. People just tended to look at the negative plays Smoot had & rarely ever at the positive ones.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #105
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=36828.msg619910#msg619910 date=1187452175]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619893#msg619893 date=1187449222]
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619890#msg619890 date=1187448912]
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.
    [/quote]

    I would argue that the difference lies in the fact that Griffin had a great year last year and we RARELY saw that kind of lazy tackling from him. Smoot on the other hand was consistently lazy game in and game out and consistently missed tackles. That is why I am willing to give Griffin a pass on one preseason game while I would have gotten on Smoot for a similar performance.
    [/quote]

    Smoot played pretty darn well in the nickle position. People just tended to look at the negative plays Smoot had & rarely ever at the positive ones.
    [/quote]

    Smoot actually did step up his game at the end of the season. But at that point the ship had already sailed for him in the eyes of many fans.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  6. #106
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=Braddock link=topic=36828.msg619976#msg619976 date=1187455479]
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=36828.msg619910#msg619910 date=1187452175]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619893#msg619893 date=1187449222]
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619890#msg619890 date=1187448912]
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.
    [/quote]

    I would argue that the difference lies in the fact that Griffin had a great year last year and we RARELY saw that kind of lazy tackling from him. Smoot on the other hand was consistently lazy game in and game out and consistently missed tackles. That is why I am willing to give Griffin a pass on one preseason game while I would have gotten on Smoot for a similar performance.
    [/quote]

    Smoot played pretty darn well in the nickle position. People just tended to look at the negative plays Smoot had & rarely ever at the positive ones.
    [/quote]

    Smoot actually did step up his game at the end of the season. But at that point the ship had already sailed for him in the eyes of many fans.
    [/quote]

    The shipped sailed for Smoot in the eyes of many fans here after the Bengals game 2 years ago.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #107
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "singersp" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619990#msg619990 date=1187456726]
    [quote author=Braddock link=topic=36828.msg619976#msg619976 date=1187455479]
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=36828.msg619910#msg619910 date=1187452175]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619893#msg619893 date=1187449222]
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619890#msg619890 date=1187448912]
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.
    [/quote]

    I would argue that the difference lies in the fact that Griffin had a great year last year and we RARELY saw that kind of lazy tackling from him. Smoot on the other hand was consistently lazy game in and game out and consistently missed tackles. That is why I am willing to give Griffin a pass on one preseason game while I would have gotten on Smoot for a similar performance.
    [/quote]

    Smoot played pretty darn well in the nickle position. People just tended to look at the negative plays Smoot had & rarely ever at the positive ones.
    [/quote]

    Smoot actually did step up his game at the end of the season. But at that point the ship had already sailed for him in the eyes of many fans.
    [/quote]

    The shipped sailed for Smoot in the eyes of many fans here after the Bengals game 2 years ago.

    [/quote]

    Probably true.

    I'm not trying to be on your back about this one singer, but just trying to put some nuances on the subject.

    After all this is just one game, and in the preseason at that. But as I've said. Even a popular guy like Griffin will eventually loose fan confidence if he consistently does bad.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  8. #108
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619996#msg619996 date=1187457152]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619990#msg619990 date=1187456726]
    [quote author=Braddock link=topic=36828.msg619976#msg619976 date=1187455479]
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=36828.msg619910#msg619910 date=1187452175]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=36828.msg619893#msg619893 date=1187449222]
    [quote author=cogitans link=topic=36828.msg619890#msg619890 date=1187448912]
    [quote author=COJOMAY link=topic=36828.msg619887#msg619887 date=1187448406]
    [size=12pt]In defense of Griffin...[/size]
    While I agree that Griffin played terrible a lot of the game by playing too far off his man and getting faked out several times and had poor tackling skills, he did prevent one TD by the Jets.
    On a second and goal from the Vikings' 1, the Jets couldn't not get into the end zone on consecutive pass attempts because of Griffin. On the first, Griffin forced a fumble by that went out of bounds at the 1-yard line. On third down, Griffin provided good coverage on receiver Brad Smith, and Pennington's pass fell incomplete. The Jets settled for a 19-yard field goal.
    Also he played against their best WR in Justin McCareins. He's a pretty good and experienced WR, and he just played a good game.

    I'm not worried about Griffen that much yet. But it were no doubt a valuable amount of experience for him.

    LOL! I will guarantee you 100% if Smoot was still here & played that game like that, you'd all be calling for his head & a Smoot Sux thread would be pages long!

    It never ceases to amaze me how people see things differently when they are talking about a player they like vs. one they hate.

    If you are going to judge a players play, judge it consistently!
    You hit that one on the head Singer!
    Very true.
    I agree with you singer, but don't generalize that to everyone. I have no preference in this case and if ANY bias, i'd like to see McCauley, but there are people defending Griffin with valid reasons. just b/c they may not agree with you, doesn't mean you should try to pull the hypocrite argument on everyone supporting Ced
    How can they not disagree?

    He played off the line & missed some tackles, just like Smoot.

    He also made a decent play or two in the game, just like Smoot.

    The difference here is they are defending Griffin for the same type of play they chastised Smoot for.

    Thus my comment of judging all players fairly. By all, I'm not targeting every member on this site. I'm targeting posts of people who are defending Griffin, but also hated Smoot for the same type of play.


    [/quote]

    Just one more time. I think most of us actually did criticize Griffin to some extent. The difference were just that we didn't crucify him like many did Smoot.
    [/quote]

    I would argue that the difference lies in the fact that Griffin had a great year last year and we RARELY saw that kind of lazy tackling from him. Smoot on the other hand was consistently lazy game in and game out and consistently missed tackles. That is why I am willing to give Griffin a pass on one preseason game while I would have gotten on Smoot for a similar performance.
    [/quote]

    Smoot played pretty darn well in the nickle position. People just tended to look at the negative plays Smoot had & rarely ever at the positive ones.
    [/quote]

    Smoot actually did step up his game at the end of the season. But at that point the ship had already sailed for him in the eyes of many fans.
    [/quote]

    The shipped sailed for Smoot in the eyes of many fans here after the Bengals game 2 years ago.

    [/quote]

    Probably true.

    I'm not trying to be on your back about this one singer, but just trying to put some nuances on the subject.

    After all this is just one game, and in the preseason at that. But as I've said. Even a popular guy like Griffin will eventually loose fan confidence if he consistently does bad.
    [/quote]

    He will.

    And just like I said in defense for Smoot, the same holds true for Griffin. When he's playing off the receiver, Winfield's doing the same. It's part of the zone defense. When that happens, you'll see a lot of passes get thrown short for 5-10 yard gains.

    They'll favor that side over Winfields.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #109
    bigbadragz's Avatar
    bigbadragz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    what is with singers hard on for smoot.
    he severely underachieved and outright played bad for most of his time here.
    and what does a player who's not on our roster anymore have anything to do with griffins play last night?
    not for nothing, but he was not that bad.
    you guys act like he got lit up for 200 yards or something.
    oh wait, that was smoot as a viking, but he's not on our team anymore so i dont care.

    how bout that pass rush though.
    starting to look like it might be legit.
    LET THAT WHICH DOES NOT MATTER, TRULY SLIDE

  10. #110
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings - Jets post game comments

    Without naming anything specific, I like the way the team played and the intensity they displayed on both sides of the ball. One of the things I expressed dissatisfaction with last year was the fact that Childress didn't fare well when going up against other rookie coaches and the fact that the team looked flat and lifeless over the last half of the season. This game, however, there was spark, fire and intensity while at the same time the team looked relaxed on the sidelines. For this I give Childress a big congratulations. When we played the Jets last year Mangini looked poised and in control while Childress looked overwhelmed, but last night was the exact opposite which was what I was looking for in the evolution of Childress as a coach. If he can carry that forward to the season he will have a much improved team.

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