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  1. #11
    The Dropper's Avatar
    The Dropper is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    I don't agree that they don't think that there could be better back-ups for both Holcomb and Bollinger who both havn't been all that good in their respective games...
    I'm not so sure there is my friend.
    Remember, the state of QB in the NFL is pretty sorry when you get past say (I am being very gracious here) the top 25 or QB's that are starting and quickly goes down hill from there.

    QB Kyle Boller UFA Baltimore Ravens

    QB Marc Bulger UFA St. Louis Rams

    QB Todd Collins UFA Washington Redskins

    QB Ryan Fitzpatrick RFA Cincinnati Bengals

    QB Rex Grossman UFA Chicago Bears

    QB Drew Henson UFA Minnesota Vikings

    QB Cleo Lemon UFA Miami Dolphins

    QB Jared Lorenzen UFA New York Giants

    QB Jamie Martin UFA New Orleans Saints

    QB Josh McCown UFA Oakland Raiders

    QB Craig Ochs RFA Buffalo Bills

    QB Dan Orlovsky RFA Detroit Lions

    QB Brian St. Pierre UFA Pittsburgh Steelers

    QB Seneca Wallace UFA Seattle Seahawks


    This is the link I use for FA research lately.
    It has some flaws I.e it still had Romo and Sorgi on it.

    http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...tion=QB&y=2008
    After Anderson and McNabb, however, the list drops to a group that arguably won't provide an upgrade over Jackson. Chad Pennington could get released by the New York Jets. Atlanta's new coach might not want Byron Leftwich. Josh McCown will be available. So will Rex Grossman and Quinn Gray.
    If these players arn't an upgrade over Holcomb or Bollinger...
    They say, over T-jack but if Childress still wants him to start they would be excellent players to compete for the #1 Job
    The list I provided are actual FA's that won't cost anything in picks and would only cost us the contract to get them in to compete.

    I'm with ya on Anderson and McNabb but I am not so sure the staff (and not just the Chiller) will give up the picks to go get one of them as they aren't UFA.
    McNabb is still under contract and DA is a RFA the last time I looked.

    Based on some of the articles about the Chillers actual thoughts on TJ I am not so sure he isn't lobbying for the staff to go out and get someone of McNabbs experience and skills however, for that to happen other people on the staff need to support that effort
    I.e the Owner, Spielman, Studwell, Bryzcheapski and of course our HC.

    We might see several of them during OTA's though this year.
    It will be interesting to see how this all washes out.
    ;D
    He should be lobbying. This team is built to win now. We probably have a couple of years window, so we could develop a QB and still move forward, maybe. But it seems like a waste when consistent QB play alone would get us in the playoffs (that alone wouldn't get us a title, but we'd be further on the right track). Basically, I'm really hoping Childress is gunning for an experienced vet who can play mistake-free football. At this point I might even consider Todd Collins if the Washingtons don't sew him up for next year. He has played pretty damn well the last couple weeks.

  2. #12
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    Well....if Todd Collins was available I would consider him before McNab. I just think Donovan will cost us to much cap and starting his 10 NFL season in 08... is one hit away from being out for the season or worse.

    I am going to go out on a VERY THIN limb here and say this: I believe T.Jack COULD do a lot of work in the off season....come into TC in 08 and show us he's improved enough to earn the starting job. I feel it's up to him. Guys like this are not drafted without good reasons. Someone....who knows a heck of a lot more than I do about players saw enough raw potential and athleticism in him to bring him in. With that said...the MONKEY is on T.Jacks back to lose in the off season with hard work and dedication to top performance in 08...I mean from day one of TC. 08 will be his BUBBLE year. He will either fish or cut bait. I think the Coaches will know early in the pre-season if he's improved enough or not to be considered the number 1 QB for the team.

    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  3. #13
    UTVikfan's Avatar
    UTVikfan is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer


    Ok, so a qb on a 1-14 team is better than a qb with a winning record? I am NOT following that logic. We can follow his lead to a loosing season? Good call. I have seen him and TJ play. And TJ is better. Can we send a few first round picks to Miami for Beck? He played even worse. I mean, if your gonna, ummm, missing fbomb, screw up...just as well go all the way. For that matter, yeah, some 3rd stringer for years is a great grab...omg! We let J.T. O'Sullivan slip away. LOL, maybe Bud could get on the phone and call Gannon. Or Jeff George! Yep, thats what we need. Jeff George is NOT out of the league for a reason, and 3rd stringers are just there to be discovered by us!

    Testeverde is retireing..til he gets that phone call and all the cash. I saw Namath in the stands a few years ago, hitting on the reporter. Maybe he can make a comeback! Why are we messing around with "TJoke"? Ohhhhh. Reality sets in maybe? Nah, lol, half the site hated CPep just a couple years ago. Did he throw for more yards than Marino in a season? He has more talent in his little finger than Todd Collins. Oh wait what about Shaun Hill? OMG! We let another uber, own you, every 10 years, even if he doesnt' play, 3rd stringer get away from us!!!


    The actual answer is draft a rookie, pay him absolute bank...like send your franchise to cap hell if he doesn't work out. Then, just like Brees with Rivers and Anderson with Quinn, we will look really stupid. It would be even better if you could, somehow find someone with the name "Manning". You KNOW they will be good. No REALLY! Thats the whole problem with TJoke. His last name is not Manning.

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    "The" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    I don't agree that they don't think that there could be better back-ups for both Holcomb and Bollinger who both havn't been all that good in their respective games...
    I'm not so sure there is my friend.
    Remember, the state of QB in the NFL is pretty sorry when you get past say (I am being very gracious here) the top 25 or QB's that are starting and quickly goes down hill from there.

    QB Kyle Boller UFA Baltimore Ravens


    QB Marc Bulger UFA St. Louis Rams


    QB Todd Collins UFA Washington Redskins


    QB Ryan Fitzpatrick RFA Cincinnati Bengals


    QB Rex Grossman UFA Chicago Bears


    QB Drew Henson UFA Minnesota Vikings


    QB Cleo Lemon UFA Miami Dolphins


    QB Jared Lorenzen UFA New York Giants


    QB Jamie Martin UFA New Orleans Saints


    QB Josh McCown UFA Oakland Raiders


    QB Craig Ochs RFA Buffalo Bills


    QB Dan Orlovsky RFA Detroit Lions


    QB Brian St. Pierre UFA Pittsburgh Steelers


    QB Seneca Wallace UFA Seattle Seahawks



    This is the link I use for FA research lately.
    It has some flaws I.e it still had Romo and Sorgi on it.

    http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...tion=QB&y=2008
    After Anderson and McNabb, however, the list drops to a group that arguably won't provide an upgrade over Jackson. Chad Pennington could get released by the New York Jets. Atlanta's new coach might not want Byron Leftwich. Josh McCown will be available. So will Rex Grossman and Quinn Gray.
    If these players arn't an upgrade over Holcomb or Bollinger...
    They say, over T-jack but if Childress still wants him to start they would be excellent players to compete for the #1 Job
    The list I provided are actual FA's that won't cost anything in picks and would only cost us the contract to get them in to compete.

    I'm with ya on Anderson and McNabb but I am not so sure the staff (and not just the Chiller) will give up the picks to go get one of them as they aren't UFA.
    McNabb is still under contract and DA is a RFA the last time I looked.

    Based on some of the articles about the Chillers actual thoughts on TJ I am not so sure he isn't lobbying for the staff to go out and get someone of McNabbs experience and skills however, for that to happen other people on the staff need to support that effort
    I.e the Owner, Spielman, Studwell, Bryzcheapski and of course our HC.

    We might see several of them during OTA's though this year.
    It will be interesting to see how this all washes out.

    ;D
    He should be lobbying. This team is built to win now. We probably have a couple of years window, so we could develop a QB and still move forward, maybe. But it seems like a waste when consistent QB play alone would get us in the playoffs (that alone wouldn't get us a title, but we'd be further on the right track). Basically, I'm really hoping Childress is gunning for an experienced vet who can play mistake-free football. At this point I might even consider Todd Collins if the Washingtons don't sew him up for next year. He has played pretty gol 'darnit well the last couple weeks.
    Drop I am gonna ping on one of your comments as I see it alot on here and am not picking on you alone......

    To think that this team only has a short window to win is a old way of thinking.
    What this staff is doing is trying to build something that will contend for years to come.

    Why to I say that.
    Teams that mortgage the bank on high priced FA's by aquiring them via trading picks and huge contracts that not only eat up your CAP for that year but for years to come will never ever have a long term future.
    Sure they might have a good year and win a few games but you just can't build a team to win that way.

    a.
    You will never be able to draft young players that add depth for that year and future stars that will be raised in the system.
    b.
    If you spend all your money on high priced FA starters you won't be able to sign any dependable backups to add a good rotation to spell them and would see a significant drop off in play when your star FA's need to take a series ff.
    c.
    Most contracts are spread out over several years that the players is expected to be with the team.
    Alot of these high priced contracts are spread out even after the player isn't playing anymore thereby still adding to your CAP woes.

    Face it my friends.
    The correct approach to building a consitently competitive team has been demonstrated by the Pats.
    Draft wisely, resign your best players, and when you have holes, go out and plug those holes with select FA's that don't mortgage the bank.

    We have seen our staff follow that path.
    2 solid drafts have provided instant starters who even though they are learning under fire are growing into a very exciting team to watch.
    A couple of years of shrewd spending in FA have added players that really fit the system even though they don't appear to be what most of us fans want to see on a team.
    And most importantly, we have resigned our better players and jettisoned the dead weight who don't quiet seem to want to conform to or fit the system.

    Long story short, if this staff (and not just the Chiller) continues down this path, we as fans can quiet with the "We have a short window to win" mentality and can sit back and enjoy the fact that our team will be in it every year as it has in the past.

    Give this team a Double digit sack artist from the RDE side and stability at the QB position and we are set.
    Throw in some better WR and Secondary play and we will be champs.
    Good thing is that maybe, just maybe, those guys are already on the team because we drafted them and didn't go out and spend our future as some teams do (ala the Skins).

    QB - TJ.
    Yes he could be that guy.
    Lets remember that he was supposed to be a 3 year project.
    DE - Robison.
    He could come into his own next year.
    Seems to have the drive/motor and talent.
    Why not?
    CB - Griffin, McCauley and Griffin, like most of our team, very young.
    A crafty WR will expose them as we saw this season but maybe, just maybe that won't happen as much next year and the years to come.

    A wise man once posted on here.........

    The future is bright and closer than some think.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    Garland Greene's Avatar
    Garland Greene is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    "UTVikfan" wrote:

    Ok, so a qb on a 1-14 team is better than a qb with a winning record? I am NOT following that logic. We can follow his lead to a loosing season? Good call. I have seen him and TJ play. And TJ is better. Can we send a few first round picks to Miami for Beck? He played even worse. I mean, if your gonna, ummm, missing fbomb, screw up...just as well go all the way. For that matter, yeah, some 3rd stringer for years is a great grab...omg! We let J.T. O'Sullivan slip away. LOL, maybe Bud could get on the phone and call Gannon. Or Jeff George! Yep, thats what we need. Jeff George is NOT out of the league for a reason, and 3rd stringers are just there to be discovered by us!


    Testeverde is retireing..til he gets that phone call and all the cash. I saw Namath in the stands a few years ago, hitting on the reporter. Maybe he can make a comeback! Why are we messing around with "TJoke"? Ohhhhh. Reality sets in maybe? Nah, lol, half the site hated CPep just a couple years ago. Did he throw for more yards than Marino in a season? He has more talent in his little finger than Todd Collins. Oh wait what about Shaun Hill? OMG! We let another uber, own you, every 10 years, even if he doesnt' play, 3rd stringer get away from us!!!



    The actual answer is draft a rookie, pay him absolute bank...like send your franchise to cap hell if he doesn't work out. Then, just like Brees with Rivers and Anderson with Quinn, we will look really stupid. It would be even better if you could, somehow find someone with the name "Manning". You KNOW they will be good. No REALLY! Thats the whole problem with TJoke. His last name is not Manning.
    Check the stats if people are going to argue that T-joke has potential than how has Cleo Basicaslly outplayed him with less to work with? I am not saying that hwe should get Cleo but wht does it tell you about T-Joke if you have a QB then that plays on a worse team and has equal if not better than what we have. If the argument is basically on potential from what whe have seen then we would have to apply that exact same logic to someone like Cleo Lemon.
    Thus Why we do not need to have T-Joke on this team.

    Never expected him to be Manning although Eli could put a hole in that theory. But look at teh Qb's tht are doiong well with less. David Garrad has ??? he has had a very solid season, and last I checked they have a 2 headed moster at RB and no Wr's, But somehow he has managed to have what many would argue a pro-bowl season.

  6. #16
    TheVike is offline Rookie
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    Should ve somehow gotten the boy from Notre Dame with AP!
    Possibly, no?
    Nuff said!

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    "TheVike" wrote:
    Should ve somehow gotten the boy from Notre Dame with AP!
    Possibly, no?
    Nuff said!
    Easy to say but everybody had a pretty good idea that Quinn was gonna slip.
    I for one didn't think he would slip as far however, lets say we did try to get him and AD last draft.

    7th Pick AD.

    2nd round pick, 3rd pick and possible another 3rd next year for the rights to take Quinn anywere in the first round.

    Would you have given up Rice, McCauley and another good player (TBD) for Quinn?

    I wouldn't.
    Rice has way to much potential and I really believe McCAuley will be a star on this team after a few more games/experience.

    Take a look at our defensive states when McCauley and Gordon filled in for Winny.
    Not a lot of dropp off when it comes to actual PTs on the scoreboard my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #18
    TheVike is offline Rookie
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    Agreed good point but what about not giving billinger snother try if we need him today!
    At least he will take the freakin sack before throwing it to the other team while on ONE foot I mean geeez that is hs crap, no?

  9. #19
    Schutz's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "TheVike" wrote:
    Should ve somehow gotten the boy from Notre Dame with AP!
    Possibly, no?
    Nuff said!
    Easy to say but everybody had a pretty good idea that Quinn was gonna slip.
    I for one didn't think he would slip as far however, lets say we did try to get him and AD last draft.

    7th Pick AD.

    2nd round pick, 3rd pick and possible another 3rd next year for the rights to take Quinn anywere in the first round.

    Would you have given up Rice, McCauley and another good player (TBD) for Quinn?

    I wouldn't.
    Rice has way to much potential and I really believe McCAuley will be a star on this team after a few more games/experience.

    Take a look at our defensive states when McCauley and Gordon filled in for Winny.
    Not a lot of dropp off when it comes to actual PTs on the scoreboard my friend.
    Well that won't be answered until Quinn actually plays.
    A good QB is worth his weight in gold, and players like McCauley and Rice can be easily replaced when comparing it to a QB.
    I for one thought we should have gone after him.
    If he ends up being a bust the staff looks good, he ends up looking like a stud it's one of those what might have been things.

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings Insider: Quarterback question has an answer

    "TheVike" wrote:
    Agreed good point but what about not giving billinger snother try if we need him today!
    At least he will take the freakin sack before throwing it to the other team while on ONE foot I mean geeez that is hs crap, no?
    I guess I have no answer other than what was sold to us in the beginning of the year by the owner, the Player personnel VP and our HC.

    They are going to develop the players they are building with through the draft.
    I guess this is a game were TJ as well as all our other young guys and vets can learn from as this group of players are formed into what we call a team.

    Let the kid learn.
    Wasn't this supposed to be a throw away season to begin with?
    Just so happens this throw away season turned into an actual run at a playoff spot in our second year of rebuilding.

    Man the future looks good doesn't it?
    If the future keeps looking better by sucking up what the staff is doing then I am onboard.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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