Thread: As Vikings grow, Jenkins must go

As young Vikings grow, the likes of Michael Jenkins must go

Pelissero: As young Vikings grow, the likes of Michael Jenkins must go | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Vikings

Cornerback Antoine Winfield is 35 years old but still playing at a high level. Defensive tackle Kevin Williams (32) is in decline but clearly a cut above backup Christian Ballard -- one of 24 first- or second-year players on the 53-man roster (45.3%).

Eight of those young players (quarterback Christian Ponder, left tackle Matt Kalil, right guard Brandon Fusco, safeties Harrison Smith and Mistral Raymond, nickel cornerback Josh Robinson, place-kicker Blair Walsh and tight end Kyle Rudolph) qualify as starters.

Wow. Nearly half the team is a first or second year player!?

Originally Posted by mountainviking

Wow. Nearly half the team is a first or second year player!?

Yup.

And yet some would argue that we aren't a young team.

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

Yup.

And yet some would argue that we aren't a young team.

And it's an EASY point to argue.

1. More than half of the 53 man roster is on their 3rd year or longer in the league.

2. There's a difference between experience ages of our 53 man roster & those of the men that start each & every week.

Offensive starters;
QB Christian Ponder
RB Adrian Peterson
FB Jerome Felton
SE Jerome Simpson
FL Percy Harvin
TE Kyle Rudolph
LT Matt Kalil
LG Charlie Johnson
C John Sullivan
RG Brandon Fusco
RT Phil Loadholt

Defensive starters;
LDE Brian Robison
DT Kevin Williams
NT Letroy Guion
RDE Jared Allen
SLB Chad Greenway
MLB Jasper Brinkley
WLB Erin Henderson
LCB Antoine Winfield
SS Mistral Raymond
FS Harrison Smith
RCB A.J. Jefferson

Of the 11 offensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 0 are rookies.
Of the 11 defensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 are rookies.

So of the 22 starters, only 6 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 of those are rookies. Only 5 of them see the field on any given play.

And yet some fans will still argue that we lose games because we field a young team.

Originally Posted by singersp

And it's an EASY point to argue.

1. More than half of the 53 man roster is on their 3rd year or longer in the league.

2. There's a difference between experience ages of our 53 man roster & those of the men that start each & every week.

Offensive starters;
QB Christian Ponder
RB Adrian Peterson
FB Jerome Felton
SE Jerome Simpson
FL Percy Harvin
TE Kyle Rudolph
LT Matt Kalil
LG Charlie Johnson
C John Sullivan
RG Brandon Fusco
RT Phil Loadholt

Defensive starters;
LDE Brian Robison
DT Kevin Williams
NT Letroy Guion
RDE Jared Allen
SLB Chad Greenway
MLB Jasper Brinkley
WLB Erin Henderson
LCB Antoine Winfield
SS Mistral Raymond
FS Harrison Smith
RCB A.J. Jefferson

Of the 11 offensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 0 are rookies.
Of the 11 defensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 are rookies.

So of the 22 starters, only 6 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 of those are rookies. Only 5 of them see the field on any given play.

And yet some fans will still argue that we lose games because we field a young team.

Really?


I think some fans just argue*





* of course I don't include myself in that group

Originally Posted by vikinggreg

Really?


I think some fans just argue*



* of course I don't include myself in that group

Nope, you're just in the group of button pushers.

Just stating facts about our team.

But hey, you're welcome to share how young YOU feel our starters are, in an non-argumentative way of course.

Originally Posted by singersp

Nope, you're just in the group of button pushers.

Just stating facts about our team.

But hey, you're welcome to share how young YOU feel our starters are, in an non-argumentative way of course.

Well I do think Kalil is a rookie starting on the offense so I'd thought you had a fact wrong there and I also think that there are a number of our starters that are on their rookie contracts or not eligible to be unrestricted free agents while the veterans that are around are on one year deals or the last year of a deal


But the Vikings have the 3rd youngest offense and 11th yougest defense according to ESPN (July) and the 5th youngest team in the league younger then the Rams and Jeff Fisher states he has a young team while they are listed as the 3rd youngest team here in September (must have cut Sage loose)

Originally Posted by singersp

And it's an EASY point to argue.

1. More than half of the 53 man roster is on their 3rd year or longer in the league.

2. There's a difference between experience ages of our 53 man roster & those of the men that start each & every week.

Offensive starters;
QB Christian Ponder
RB Adrian Peterson
FB Jerome Felton
SE Jerome Simpson
FL Percy Harvin
TE Kyle Rudolph
LT Matt Kalil
LG Charlie Johnson
C John Sullivan
RG Brandon Fusco
RT Phil Loadholt

Defensive starters;
LDE Brian Robison
DT Kevin Williams
NT Letroy Guion
RDE Jared Allen
SLB Chad Greenway
MLB Jasper Brinkley
WLB Erin Henderson
LCB Antoine Winfield
SS Mistral Raymond
FS Harrison Smith
RCB A.J. Jefferson

Of the 11 offensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 0 are rookies.
Of the 11 defensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 are rookies.

So of the 22 starters, only 6 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 of those are rookies. Only 5 of them see the field on any given play.

And yet some fans will still argue that we lose games because we field a young team.

I know that Kalil is playing at a pretty high level... but he is still a rookie. But let's not let silly facts get in the way of a good argument.

And out of that list, how many are in their rookie contracts still and how many are starting at new positions for this team? Oh yeah, and how long have each of the coaches been in place?

And how do those numbers compare to other teams? How many other teams are fielding teams with more than 1/4 of their STARTERS having 2 years or less of experience.

The fact is we ARE a young team. Not a team of rookies, but still pretty young - especially when you compare the Vikings to other teams in the NFL. And I don't believe anybody ever said we were losing games because we were a young team. Inexperience DOES have an impact on the number of mistakes made in a game, and the number of mistakes made in a game DOES have an impact on the outcome of the game.

I don't understand why some people refuse to believe that the age of our team has any impact.

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

I know that Kalil is playing at a pretty high level... but he is still a rookie. But let's not let silly facts get in the way of a good argument.

And out of that list, how many are in their rookie contracts still and how many are starting at new positions for this team? Oh yeah, and how long have each of the coaches been in place?

And how do those numbers compare to other teams? How many other teams are fielding teams with more than 1/4 of their STARTERS having 2 years or less of experience.

The fact is we ARE a young team. Not a team of rookies, but still pretty young - especially when you compare the Vikings to other teams in the NFL. And I don't believe anybody ever said we were losing games because we were a young team. Inexperience DOES have an impact on the number of mistakes made in a game, and the number of mistakes made in a game DOES have an impact on the outcome of the game.

I don't understand why some people refuse to believe that the age of our team has any impact.

My bad. Kalil is a rookie & that number should have been 1 rookie, not 0. It doesn't change the fact that there are still only 3 starters on offense with 2 years or less of experience as I noted.

Sure there are some players still under their rookie contract, but that doesn't necessarily mean young in terms of football. What are you considering young? How many years before you consider them veterans? Is a player in the fourth year of his rookie contract still young? What about a player that's in his 6th year if he signed a 6 year contract with the Vikings.

Secondly, I wasn't weaving coaches into the discussion since we were only talking about the 1st and second year players on the 53 man roster.

Nevertheless just because we brought in some fresh faces to our team or our coaching staff doesn't make them young.

We added Williams to the coaching staff. He's new, but it being his 12th season as a coach in the NFL, I don't consider that young. Simpson is new to this team, but with 5 years experience, I don't consider him young.

I don't think anyone here refuses to believe that the inexperience/age of some of our players impacts our team. I believe they do, but I certainly don't pass the lion's share of the blame on them. Yes, inexperienced players make mistakes & mistakes do contribute to losses, but experienced players make mistakes as well, which also contribute to those same losses as well. Some people tend to forget that.

Fans here have indeed said we've lost games due to the fact we were a young team. "We're still young" or "he's still young" have been used often in discussions here. To here some of them talk, you'd think we were starting mostly 1st & 2nd year players.

As mentioned before, we have 6 players starting on offense & defense that have 2 years or less experience. You can add Walsh to that list for ST.

Ponder
Kalil
Fusco
Smith
Jefferson
Raymond (who has reportedly lost the starting job to 4 year veteran Sanford)
Walsh

Of those, who would you say makes a lot of mistakes? Some of those players are playing at a high level with very few mistakes, while veterans on this team still make mistakes.

There are going to be missed tackles, fumbles, INT's, dropped passes and penalties to consider. Both veterans & rookies make them.

FWIW here's the penalty breakdown;

E.Griffen 5
P.Loadholt 4
J. Allen 4
C. Johnson 4
J.Brinkley 3
A.Jefferson 3
C.Cook 2
L.Guion 2
B.Robison 2
K.Williams 2
C.Greenway 2
C.Ballard 2
K.Rudolph 2
J.Sullivan 2
J.Robinson 2
H.Smith 2
M.Kalil 2
M.Mitchell 2
E.Henderson 1
J.Sanford 1
F.Evans 1
M.Jenkins 1
M.Raymond 1
P.Harvin 1
C.Ponder 1
A.Winfield 1
A.Sendejo 1
S.Burton 1
T.McKenzie 1

All Players - 2012 - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

Having a hard time following the logic of this thread . First the debate seemed to be whether the Vikings were a young team, then it morphed into whether youth was responsible for mistakes and ultimately losses.
Seems to me this team has achieved beyond expectation and this youth movement has given hope for a promising future.