Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,212

    As Vikings grow, Jenkins must go


    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #2
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,776
    Cornerback Antoine Winfield is 35 years old but still playing at a high level. Defensive tackle Kevin Williams (32) is in decline but clearly a cut above backup Christian Ballard -- one of 24 first- or second-year players on the 53-man roster (45.3%).

    Eight of those young players (quarterback Christian Ponder, left tackle Matt Kalil, right guard Brandon Fusco, safeties Harrison Smith and Mistral Raymond, nickel cornerback Josh Robinson, place-kicker Blair Walsh and tight end Kyle Rudolph) qualify as starters.
    Wow. Nearly half the team is a first or second year player!?
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  3. #3
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    Wow. Nearly half the team is a first or second year player!?
    Yup.

    And yet some would argue that we aren't a young team.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #4
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,212
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Yup.

    And yet some would argue that we aren't a young team.
    And it's an EASY point to argue.

    1. More than half of the 53 man roster is on their 3rd year or longer in the league.

    2. There's a difference between experience ages of our 53 man roster & those of the men that start each & every week.

    Offensive starters;
    QB Christian Ponder
    RB Adrian Peterson
    FB Jerome Felton
    SE Jerome Simpson
    FL Percy Harvin
    TE Kyle Rudolph
    LT Matt Kalil
    LG Charlie Johnson
    C John Sullivan
    RG Brandon Fusco
    RT Phil Loadholt

    Defensive starters;
    LDE Brian Robison
    DT Kevin Williams
    NT Letroy Guion
    RDE Jared Allen
    SLB Chad Greenway
    MLB Jasper Brinkley
    WLB Erin Henderson
    LCB Antoine Winfield
    SS Mistral Raymond
    FS Harrison Smith
    RCB A.J. Jefferson

    Of the 11 offensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 0 are rookies.
    Of the 11 defensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 are rookies.

    So of the 22 starters, only 6 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 of those are rookies. Only 5 of them see the field on any given play.

    And yet some fans will still argue that we lose games because we field a young team.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #5
    vikinggreg's Avatar
    vikinggreg is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Great White North
    Posts
    4,735
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    And it's an EASY point to argue.

    1. More than half of the 53 man roster is on their 3rd year or longer in the league.

    2. There's a difference between experience ages of our 53 man roster & those of the men that start each & every week.

    Offensive starters;
    QB Christian Ponder
    RB Adrian Peterson
    FB Jerome Felton
    SE Jerome Simpson
    FL Percy Harvin
    TE Kyle Rudolph
    LT Matt Kalil
    LG Charlie Johnson
    C John Sullivan
    RG Brandon Fusco
    RT Phil Loadholt

    Defensive starters;
    LDE Brian Robison
    DT Kevin Williams
    NT Letroy Guion
    RDE Jared Allen
    SLB Chad Greenway
    MLB Jasper Brinkley
    WLB Erin Henderson
    LCB Antoine Winfield
    SS Mistral Raymond
    FS Harrison Smith
    RCB A.J. Jefferson

    Of the 11 offensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 0 are rookies.
    Of the 11 defensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 are rookies.

    So of the 22 starters, only 6 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 of those are rookies. Only 5 of them see the field on any given play.

    And yet some fans will still argue that we lose games because we field a young team.
    Really?


    I think some fans just argue*





    * of course I don't include myself in that group

  6. #6
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,212
    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    Really?


    I think some fans just argue*



    * of course I don't include myself in that group
    Nope, you're just in the group of button pushers.

    Just stating facts about our team.

    But hey, you're welcome to share how young YOU feel our starters are, in an non-argumentative way of course.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #7
    vikinggreg's Avatar
    vikinggreg is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Great White North
    Posts
    4,735
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Nope, you're just in the group of button pushers.

    Just stating facts about our team.

    But hey, you're welcome to share how young YOU feel our starters are, in an non-argumentative way of course.
    Well I do think Kalil is a rookie starting on the offense so I'd thought you had a fact wrong there and I also think that there are a number of our starters that are on their rookie contracts or not eligible to be unrestricted free agents while the veterans that are around are on one year deals or the last year of a deal


    But the Vikings have the 3rd youngest offense and 11th yougest defense according to ESPN (July) and the 5th youngest team in the league younger then the Rams and Jeff Fisher states he has a young team while they are listed as the 3rd youngest team here in September (must have cut Sage loose)

  8. #8
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    And it's an EASY point to argue.

    1. More than half of the 53 man roster is on their 3rd year or longer in the league.

    2. There's a difference between experience ages of our 53 man roster & those of the men that start each & every week.

    Offensive starters;
    QB Christian Ponder
    RB Adrian Peterson
    FB Jerome Felton
    SE Jerome Simpson
    FL Percy Harvin
    TE Kyle Rudolph
    LT Matt Kalil
    LG Charlie Johnson
    C John Sullivan
    RG Brandon Fusco
    RT Phil Loadholt

    Defensive starters;
    LDE Brian Robison
    DT Kevin Williams
    NT Letroy Guion
    RDE Jared Allen
    SLB Chad Greenway
    MLB Jasper Brinkley
    WLB Erin Henderson
    LCB Antoine Winfield
    SS Mistral Raymond
    FS Harrison Smith
    RCB A.J. Jefferson

    Of the 11 offensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 0 are rookies.
    Of the 11 defensive starters, only 3 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 are rookies.

    So of the 22 starters, only 6 of them have 2 years or less experience. 2 of those are rookies. Only 5 of them see the field on any given play.

    And yet some fans will still argue that we lose games because we field a young team.
    I know that Kalil is playing at a pretty high level... but he is still a rookie. But let's not let silly facts get in the way of a good argument.

    And out of that list, how many are in their rookie contracts still and how many are starting at new positions for this team? Oh yeah, and how long have each of the coaches been in place?

    And how do those numbers compare to other teams? How many other teams are fielding teams with more than 1/4 of their STARTERS having 2 years or less of experience.

    The fact is we ARE a young team. Not a team of rookies, but still pretty young - especially when you compare the Vikings to other teams in the NFL. And I don't believe anybody ever said we were losing games because we were a young team. Inexperience DOES have an impact on the number of mistakes made in a game, and the number of mistakes made in a game DOES have an impact on the outcome of the game.

    I don't understand why some people refuse to believe that the age of our team has any impact.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #9
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,212
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I know that Kalil is playing at a pretty high level... but he is still a rookie. But let's not let silly facts get in the way of a good argument.

    And out of that list, how many are in their rookie contracts still and how many are starting at new positions for this team? Oh yeah, and how long have each of the coaches been in place?

    And how do those numbers compare to other teams? How many other teams are fielding teams with more than 1/4 of their STARTERS having 2 years or less of experience.

    The fact is we ARE a young team. Not a team of rookies, but still pretty young - especially when you compare the Vikings to other teams in the NFL. And I don't believe anybody ever said we were losing games because we were a young team. Inexperience DOES have an impact on the number of mistakes made in a game, and the number of mistakes made in a game DOES have an impact on the outcome of the game.

    I don't understand why some people refuse to believe that the age of our team has any impact.
    My bad. Kalil is a rookie & that number should have been 1 rookie, not 0. It doesn't change the fact that there are still only 3 starters on offense with 2 years or less of experience as I noted.

    Sure there are some players still under their rookie contract, but that doesn't necessarily mean young in terms of football. What are you considering young? How many years before you consider them veterans? Is a player in the fourth year of his rookie contract still young? What about a player that's in his 6th year if he signed a 6 year contract with the Vikings.

    Secondly, I wasn't weaving coaches into the discussion since we were only talking about the 1st and second year players on the 53 man roster.

    Nevertheless just because we brought in some fresh faces to our team or our coaching staff doesn't make them young.

    We added Williams to the coaching staff. He's new, but it being his 12th season as a coach in the NFL, I don't consider that young. Simpson is new to this team, but with 5 years experience, I don't consider him young.

    I don't think anyone here refuses to believe that the inexperience/age of some of our players impacts our team. I believe they do, but I certainly don't pass the lion's share of the blame on them. Yes, inexperienced players make mistakes & mistakes do contribute to losses, but experienced players make mistakes as well, which also contribute to those same losses as well. Some people tend to forget that.

    Fans here have indeed said we've lost games due to the fact we were a young team. "We're still young" or "he's still young" have been used often in discussions here. To here some of them talk, you'd think we were starting mostly 1st & 2nd year players.

    As mentioned before, we have 6 players starting on offense & defense that have 2 years or less experience. You can add Walsh to that list for ST.

    Ponder
    Kalil
    Fusco
    Smith
    Jefferson
    Raymond (who has reportedly lost the starting job to 4 year veteran Sanford)
    Walsh

    Of those, who would you say makes a lot of mistakes? Some of those players are playing at a high level with very few mistakes, while veterans on this team still make mistakes.

    There are going to be missed tackles, fumbles, INT's, dropped passes and penalties to consider. Both veterans & rookies make them.

    FWIW here's the penalty breakdown;

    E.Griffen 5
    P.Loadholt 4
    J. Allen 4
    C. Johnson 4
    J.Brinkley 3
    A.Jefferson 3
    C.Cook 2
    L.Guion 2
    B.Robison 2
    K.Williams 2
    C.Greenway 2
    C.Ballard 2
    K.Rudolph 2
    J.Sullivan 2
    J.Robinson 2
    H.Smith 2
    M.Kalil 2
    M.Mitchell 2
    E.Henderson 1
    J.Sanford 1
    F.Evans 1
    M.Jenkins 1
    M.Raymond 1
    P.Harvin 1
    C.Ponder 1
    A.Winfield 1
    A.Sendejo 1
    S.Burton 1
    T.McKenzie 1

    All Players - 2012 - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
    Last edited by singersp; 11-24-2012 at 04:08 PM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #10
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    859
    Having a hard time following the logic of this thread . First the debate seemed to be whether the Vikings were a young team, then it morphed into whether youth was responsible for mistakes and ultimately losses.
    Seems to me this team has achieved beyond expectation and this youth movement has given hope for a promising future.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •