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  1. #51
    digital420's Avatar
    digital420 is offline Team Alumni
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    Dec 1969
    Ancient Korinthia
    Quote Originally Posted by digital420 View Post
    i'm not gonna praise and sputter about Frazier merit or lack of..

    I will say this though..
    1. how can we judge a guy who's been around the league, around coaching staffs, and has experience at this level? why because we're experienced in watching the game infront of us?

    2. What really has frazier done wrong? listened to his players? maybe picked guys around him that arn't TOP NOTCH? really? Tomlin was our DC.. who went to HC a team that was elite.. stayed elite.. and is kinda elite now? so is he an ELITE coach? show me where Frazier was handed the reigns of a SB team and then destroyed it.. or.. show me how he took an ok team and destroyed it (detroit) ..

    3. SlickRick sure we like to bash him for his drafts.. a lot of people LoL'd him for drafting a kicker.. people ranted and ranted.. but.. damn.. Walsh is showing.. hey.. that was a smart choice.. what if we didn't have him? what if someone later in the round said.. we need a kicker.. where would we be on Special teams? would we be avg inside the 20? longwell was above avg in his end.. and I think Walsh was an immidiate step up.. and now we have him for years to come.. we're building a team as the coaching staff has said over and over.. Through the draft, and picking up possible players through FA. does that mean in 2 drafts we have a new team? how many starters do you really think a team can make out of 1 draft? 3-5? IF they pan out.. as i see it after 4 years we'll have 15-20 drafted players starting for us.. and i bet we'll have a few 4-6 round gems in there, why because we have a good scouting dept, communication around the room, and people doing their jobs..

    so really? are we ranting because.. we're not winning it all? why should we be? what hasn't Frazier done? or is it people still have Chilly taste in their mouth and ohh man.. anything connected to him has to go? really? Im not the biggest fan of Frazier.. but i'm no where near quallified to say.. This guy doesn't know his jock from a playbook.. does he seem like the hard nosed coach Grant was? well no.. Do I think there is another Grant out there? maybe.. but we have Frazier, he's working withen our system to build a team with SlickRick.

    to me.. it's hard to watch because I look so forward to seeing the Vikes play.. be it 5 am or 8 pm.. and i've had to go to work after watching all nite pissed we lost, tired.. maybe i'd ranted about this or that. but that still does that mean I understand more then the coaching staff does. and so far this year I see improvement.. sure who can't improve after a loosing season.. (well how many did detroit have?????)

    I give them their reign.. as the worst thing we could do right now is change philosophy's. a new coach + staff would be just that. if everyone gives ponder a year or two to get to the level he should be.. why not give the staff? now.. that doesn't not mean i think moosegrave is the OC we need.. but i'm !#$%!# sure he's better then Tice (i need a hug kuz we lost) .. end of this year there will be probably some restructuring.. another off season #2 for Frazier and staff.. and entering his 3rd year will be a do or die. (do being.. show us that there is hope for a future). until then. let the beat writers write as that's their job.. stir up people to read their bla bla bla, and make their money bashing/praising as they see fit.

    well.. i guess if i'm gonna haha with someone i'll start with myself.. i figured we'd be discussing who's gonna stay on staff. what's the chance frazier gets his pink slip right about now.. but no... we have a PLAYOFF game on saturday nite!! (sunday 3 am for me...)) so i'll remain silent on any critiques until the season is done. though. rustymusty's mini gamecard had me worried.. the O clicked... it's finding rhythm @ the right $%#!$#% time, and there were some good plays set up. taking advantage of things they saw. i really doubt we'll see any coaching staff changes.. unless we loose some1 to another team.

    seems our coaches can coach after all..


    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  2. #52
    derek's Avatar
    derek is offline Waterboy
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    Dec 1969
    Originally Posted by pack93z" "Originally Posted by pack93z
    Outside looking in perspective.. his dealt hand hasn't exactly been one to win directly with. Reality is that the Viking had a window to win it, got damn close. They rolled the dice with the Allen Trade, Favre and honestly experienced some bad luck with injuries to promising players like Rice.

    They are a deficient team in terms of offensive skill players beyond Harvin and AP; Ponder and Rudolph will develop. They have a couple of chips on the edges for the offensive line, but honestly they are still works in progress.

    On defense, the Williams wall couldn't hold up forever.. they have some good individual talent on defense but again are playing youth again. Allen and EJ are still very good players.. but scheme around them. Personally and I know this sounds anti progression, but I would try and move Allen while he still holds premium value. Continue to reload via the draft, develop and within the time Ponder is ready to hit his prime, you will have a core of players coming into their prime and can make another run.

    The division is going to see the Bears flame out soon, and the Lions I think had a chance to grab ahold of consistency, but their coach is going to work against them. That leaves the Packers whom are going to hit a crossroads soon with a bunch of talent and will need to make some decisions. A mini rebuild as you will..

    I think you window is about two years from now.. the 2014 season.. why not acquire as much talent to mature at once?

    In other words, I think Frazier is a quality NFL coach.. growing pains in which inconsistency is prevalent, but in my opinion that is part of a rebuilt. We the Packers are just a few seasons removed from that.. MM looked like a joke. Building a winner in this league takes time.. I think Frazier should be afforded more.

    Recovering from Chilly is not an overnight deal.. my opinion."

    thank you! FINALLY, a rational, well thought out, historically accurate, and long term viewed opinion!

    i honestly am starting to worry that most of the world has some sort of 'instant gratification, short term memory, short sighted future' syndrome. Thank you pack93z for easing my concern at least a bit. what you described so well is pretty much where i stand too...

    imo THIS is the REAL 1st year of GENUINE rebuilding for the Vikes. And i DO expect some bumps along the way...BUT...i also see something in this team this year....yes its only been 3 games, but the team has already shown me some solid guts & heart in what could have been 'stick a fork in em' situations...

    Game 1's win was (ultimately) fantastic and they guys NEVER gave up. Even in game 2s penalty ridden loss, the team nevertheless fought back and still had a chance to win in the end. Game 3's rebound win, against what most would say is the best team in the league, was a well rounded across the board solid steady performance.

    again, i fully expect some bumps and bruises along the way, but com ON people. really? please step back and see the BIG picture....

    look...we cleaned a little house this past last year, we're finally letting the younger guys drive right out of the gate....lets just give the seeds that have been relatively recently planted a chance to root in solidly and to actually GROW a bit this year and then see if we can determine what kind of fruits they might bring us ... spite of it being a genuine rebuilding year this year, i can honestly say i'm more psyched THIS year than i have been in a while...i've been wanting the vikes to go with a bit more youth for a while now, so i'm really excited and curious to see what unexpected skills, elements, playmakers begin to cultivate in the Purple this season....

    anywayz, there's my 2cents...

    we should come back to this post at the end of the season to revisit, just to see if the Purple crew showed any solid 'structural/foundational' improvement over last few years that sets them up for the long term, or if they are as hopelessly headed for nowhere as so many seem to think they are. that the regular season is over, like i said...lets revisit this post honestly and fairly. Were those who were in the 'instant gratification-we're going in the wrong direction=fire leslie' camp more accurate, or were those in the 'this is still a rebuilding year after the previous coach-let Leslie stay and give HIS seeds a chance to grow' camp more accurate?

    10-6 and in the playoffs when almost no-one, including myself- expected that. This team may not have a whole lot of big names, and may have less talent & experience than many teams at crucial positions...but this team has the right attitude, the right 'no-give-up' gusto, the right approach....and in my opinion...the right coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by derek View Post
    Nice call. Hope you didn't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back ! Just kidding.
    yeah, i kinda did sprain my elbow joint a bit there, but don't worry i should still be able hold my Vikes mini-helmet in one hand and Adrian Peterson action figure in the other this coming weekend, just like i did this past weekend

    to be clear though, i was really patting pack93z on the back for their post (i was essentially just agreeing with him/her).

    the credit goes to Packer fan (i assume) pack93z....kinda ironic in a way, considering the Vikes last reg season game's (and now coming playoff game's) opponent.

    btw those last few seconds as AP was driving down to the 11 yard line....couldn't your boys have at LEAST let him get to the 1 yard line before tacklin' him? 9 yards man, just 9 or 10 more yards would have done it. THAT would have been SOOOOO sweet..

    ah well...

    regardless, that was a classic game right there....haven't been that tense watching a game in quite a while!

    sound the horn fellas....

    Last edited by derek; 12-31-2012 at 05:02 PM.

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