Thread: Vikings Going Nowhere Under Frazier

Lf's problem is his name. The best coaches all have good names. Bill, tony, bud, bum, Rex, mike, tom, Jim, john, etc... all unmistakably manly names. Leslie, lovie, wade? Gtfo! For that reason alone, fraizer can never be a great coach

Keep Frazier for another year unless you're ready to get a new quarterback as well. Once you start changing offenses and coaches, you start resetting the quarterback.

Originally Posted by C Mac D

We should take a serious look at re-hiring Childress.

Good to see you living up to your disclaimer then

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

Lf's problem is his name. The best coaches all have good names. Bill, tony, bud, bum, Rex, mike, tom, Jim, john, etc... all unmistakably manly names. Leslie, lovie, wade? Gtfo! For that reason alone, fraizer can never be a great coach

Hey the Vikings had a QB named Fran that they went to the SB with

Originally Posted by vikinggreg

Hey the Vikings had a QB named Fran that they went to the SB with

But they were smart to not make him their coach.

Originally Posted by digital420

....

I give them their reign.. as the worst thing we could do right now is change philosophy's. a new coach + staff would be just that. if everyone gives ponder a year or two to get to the level he should be.. why not give the staff? now.. that doesn't not mean i think moosegrave is the OC we need.. but i'm !#$%!# sure he's better then Tice (i need a hug kuz we lost) .. end of this year there will be probably some restructuring.. another off season #2 for Frazier and staff.. and entering his 3rd year will be a do or die. (do being.. show us that there is hope for a future). until then. let the beat writers write as that's their job.. stir up people to read their bla bla bla, and make their money bashing/praising as they see fit.

DiGiTaL

Here's where we parted ways completely.

I agree that Frazier didn't have a cake-walk coming in, but we - the fans - are capable of judging RESULTS to determine a Coaches effectiveness....just like we do for players.

Where we differ, you and I, is that I disagree that the current philosophy is the right path. We're currently stuck with a broken Tampa 2 defense that hasn't worked for a few years now and shows no signs of improving rapidly, and an offense that is more reminiscent of Chillers KAO than anything any of the winning franchises are putting on the field.

In short, the current philosophy IS the problem.

That means that one of three things happen:

1: The Coach stays the same, the philosophy stays the same, and we struggle through a prolonged rebuild that may or may not result in a strong team.

2: The Coach stays but radically alters his philosophies so as to maximize our current roster while seeking to improve the players on the roster. This will likely require new Coordinators.

3: We start over with a new HC and new staff - one who believes that there is a better way to do things, and can make that happen.

Of those three, we are currently looking at #1 as being the most likely path (which is why most of us are unhappy). 2 is the least likely as it necessitates a complete alteration of Frazier's style of coaching and game planing....


...that means 3, through the process of elimination, is the most probable path to success, but not the most likely path we will follow...which is frustrating.

Caine

Yep, going nowhere with Frasier, imo.

I didn't even like him as our DC. Nothing.........and I mean NOTHING improved in our secondary with him in charge. In fact, I could make an argument that our secondary got worse with him in charge. How this makes him a good candidate for HC, I have no idea.

He may be a fine defensive back coach, but DC or HC?......absolutely not.

Time to call it and move on.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

But they were smart to not make him their coach.

The Vikings are going to be playing outdoors again they really need to go back to what worked for them when they did that....which was to look for a coach that is in Canada thats been from Minnesota and there is a guy that was a QB, a defensive player, QC, OC and HC been to championships.... Marc Trestman could be our next Bud Grant

Originally Posted by pack93z

Outside looking in perspective.. his dealt hand hasn't exactly been one to win directly with. Reality is that the Viking had a window to win it, got damn close. They rolled the dice with the Allen Trade, Favre and honestly experienced some bad luck with injuries to promising players like Rice.

They are a deficient team in terms of offensive skill players beyond Harvin and AP; Ponder and Rudolph will develop. They have a couple of chips on the edges for the offensive line, but honestly they are still works in progress.

On defense, the Williams wall couldn't hold up forever.. they have some good individual talent on defense but again are playing youth again. Allen and EJ are still very good players.. but scheme around them. Personally and I know this sounds anti progression, but I would try and move Allen while he still holds premium value. Continue to reload via the draft, develop and within the time Ponder is ready to hit his prime, you will have a core of players coming into their prime and can make another run.

The division is going to see the Bears flame out soon, and the Lions I think had a chance to grab ahold of consistency, but their coach is going to work against them. That leaves the Packers whom are going to hit a crossroads soon with a bunch of talent and will need to make some decisions. A mini rebuild as you will..

I think you window is about two years from now.. the 2014 season.. why not acquire as much talent to mature at once?

In other words, I think Frazier is a quality NFL coach.. growing pains in which inconsistency is prevalent, but in my opinion that is part of a rebuilt. We the Packers are just a few seasons removed from that.. MM looked like a joke. Building a winner in this league takes time.. I think Frazier should be afforded more.

Recovering from Chilly is not an overnight deal.. my opinion.

thank you! FINALLY, a rational, well thought out, historically accurate, and long term viewed opinion!

i honestly am starting to worry that most of the world has some sort of 'instant gratification, short term memory, short sighted future' syndrome. Thank you pack93z for easing my concern at least a bit. what you described so well is pretty much where i stand too...

imo THIS is the REAL 1st year of GENUINE rebuilding for the Vikes. And i DO expect some bumps along the way...BUT...i also see something in this team this year....yes its only been 3 games, but the team has already shown me some solid guts & heart in what could have been 'stick a fork in em' situations...

Game 1's win was (ultimately) fantastic and they guys NEVER gave up. Even in game 2s penalty ridden loss, the team nevertheless fought back and still had a chance to win in the end. Game 3's rebound win, against what most would say is the best team in the league, was a well rounded across the board solid steady performance.

again, i fully expect some bumps and bruises along the way, but com ON people. really? please step back and see the BIG picture....

look...we cleaned a little house this past last year, we're finally letting the younger guys drive right out of the gate....lets just give the seeds that have been relatively recently planted a chance to root in solidly and to actually GROW a bit this year and then see if we can determine what kind of fruits they might bring us ...

...in spite of it being a genuine rebuilding year this year, i can honestly say i'm more psyched THIS year than i have been in a while...i've been wanting the vikes to go with a bit more youth for a while now, so i'm really excited and curious to see what unexpected skills, elements, playmakers begin to cultivate in the Purple this season....

anywayz, there's my 2cents...

we should come back to this post at the end of the season to revisit, just to see if the Purple crew showed any solid 'structural/foundational' improvement over last few years that sets them up for the long term, or if they are as hopelessly headed for nowhere as so many seem to think they are.

just a quick note.. have to be in korinthos in 20 min and gotta fly..

last week i mentioned that you can't QQ and rant about Frazier for the penalties.. UNLESS we did the same things again this week...

1 penalty... now.. is that coaches working with guys? or is that guys working in what the coaches want?


besides that.. "Dad" mentioned.. Now there is a smart Coach.. taking advantage of the dumb refs.. (bringing up the 4th timeout used to get 2 freebie challanges)

to that all i could say is.. - Karma's a bitch..
now i did see Frazier argueing.. i hope it was.. but he doesn't have time outs.. even before the refs knew what was going on.. he was there asking.. what? what does he want? maybe he coulda been a bit more animated.. maybe a bit more forcefull? but in the end it didn't really matter.

DiGiTaL