Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 58
  1. #21
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,692

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.

  2. #22
    midgensa's Avatar
    midgensa is offline Jersey Retired Free Kick Specialist 3 Champion
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    6,317

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.
    I don't know that I throw him into the "elite" level quite yet because of all the injury issues and such in his career.

    But I definitely agree we will regret it if we lose him.

  3. #23
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
    V4L is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    20,612

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.

    +1

    Exactly what I feel

    I wouldnt throw the bank at him.. But we need an outside guy..

  4. #24
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.
    He does have skills but the question is his ability to stay healthy and his consistency.If you look at his career stats he is averaging 1 touchdown in every 3 games ( 18 td in 48 games)

    Like I have said, if he can be signed for a reasonable amount we need to try to keep him on the roster, but if he is looking for top 5 money or anything like that then I would let him walk. Unless they evaluate him and it looks like he is healed enough to chance it. but he did have surgery on his hip last year and I don't know what the long term chances of that not effecting him are.

  5. #25
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,692

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1090045
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.
    He does have skills but the question is his ability to stay healthy and his consistency.If you look at his career stats he is averaging 1 touchdown in every 3 games ( 18 td in 48 games)

    Like I have said, if he can be signed for a reasonable amount we need to try to keep him on the roster, but if he is looking for top 5 money or anything like that then I would let him walk. Unless they evaluate him and it looks like he is healed enough to chance it. but he did have surgery on his hip last year and I don't know what the long term chances of that not effecting him are.
    But isn't that the beauty of the NFL contract system? Nothing is guaranteed unless explicitly written. I have no problem giving him a big bonus, as that doesn't count against the cap(also, it's not my money.) But if we structure his contract like most teams do, where it's heavier at the back end, with a good bonus up front, we're insured. If he can't stay healthy in the early years of the deal, you release him. Simple as that.

    If we were so concerned about injuries, we never would have drafted Peterson, or Harvin, and would have put EJ out to pasture.

    As much as people like to speculate, for the most part you can't predict injuries(see: Cedric Griffin.) In the case of guys like Shawne Merriman and Bob Sanders, it's safe to make decisions based on their injury history. It's stupid to base whether or not to go for a player because of one injury he sustained. He made plays on limited touches in 2007, 2008, and 2010, proved he could do it on a consistent basis with reliable QB play in 2009. His skills are undeniable, and I think he's a valuable asset to this team and a class act.

  6. #26
    Zeus's Avatar
    Zeus is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Minnesota.
    Posts
    23,937

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?
    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3677_A_CHFF_theory_elevated_to_Man_Law.html

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts proposed the shiny hood ornament theory years ago as we grappled with the obsession so many football fans and pigskin “pundits” have with flashy wide receivers.

    The theory has three basic parts.

    ONE – Wide receivers, for all their eye-catching flash and dash, are little more than shiny ornaments on the hood of an NFL offense. Oh, sure, they’re nice to have. But they don’t necessarily make your offense any better – and they rarely if ever make your team any better.

    TWO – You should add a flashy wide receiver only when all the other pieces of a great team are in place: a great driver (the quarterback), some sporty tires that provide plenty of traction (the offensive line and ground game), a powerful motor (the defense) and a great transmission (special teams) that allows you to change gears quickly and effectively.

    THREE – Even the greatest receivers of all time can make a big impact only when all those pieces are in place, and even then the impact is largely overstated. Even the great Jerry Rice, for example, touched the ball just four to five times per game. So the impact of even the greatest at the position is minimal compared with the impact of a certain position that touches the ball on every offensive snap. And remember, Rice did not make the 49ers a great team. He was drafted by the 18-1 defending Super Bowl champ 49ers in 1985.
    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  7. #27
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090051
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1090045
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.
    He does have skills but the question is his ability to stay healthy and his consistency.If you look at his career stats he is averaging 1 touchdown in every 3 games ( 18 td in 48 games)

    Like I have said, if he can be signed for a reasonable amount we need to try to keep him on the roster, but if he is looking for top 5 money or anything like that then I would let him walk. Unless they evaluate him and it looks like he is healed enough to chance it. but he did have surgery on his hip last year and I don't know what the long term chances of that not effecting him are.
    But isn't that the beauty of the NFL contract system? Nothing is guaranteed unless explicitly written. I have no problem giving him a big bonus, as that doesn't count against the cap(also, it's not my money.) But if we structure his contract like most teams do, where it's heavier at the back end, with a good bonus up front, we're insured. If he can't stay healthy in the early years of the deal, you release him. Simple as that.

    If we were so concerned about injuries, we never would have drafted Peterson, or Harvin, and would have put EJ out to pasture.

    As much as people like to speculate, for the most part you can't predict injuries(see: Cedric Griffin.) In the case of guys like Shawne Merriman and Bob Sanders, it's safe to make decisions based on their injury history. It's stupid to base whether or not to go for a player because of one injury he sustained. He made plays on limited touches in 2007, 2008, and 2010, proved he could do it on a consistent basis with reliable QB play in 2009. His skills are undeniable, and I think he's a valuable asset to this team and a class act.
    He also missed an extended amount of time in 2008 with a knee injury so it isn't like I am basing it on 1 injury. It is 2 that caused him to miss significant time in 2 of his 4 seasons.

    As far as the up front bonus goes, if we had only a few holes to few that wouldn't be a big deal but that pool is limited and we have plenty of holes so I would not want the whole pot thrown at 1 guy. If they can make all of the moves they want to and need to without sacrifice and can get him taken care of then I am all for it. I just don't want to sacrifice depth at a few other positions just to shore this one up.

    Hopefully they can afford him and everyone else they want and things turn out fine. That would be great.

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,935

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "V4L" #1090043
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?

    I don't really see why people don't see it. A lot of the things he does are far from routine catches, he has great body control, hands, and leaping ability. He doesn't have elite speed, but it's certainly adequate considering his ability to use his body to create separation and go get the ball at the highest point.

    I think he's practically a Fitzgerald clone, only with less strength.

    The years he wasn't producing were years when he never got targeted. Jackson was handcuffed like Hannibal Lecter by Childress, does anyone actually think that he'd just chuck it up for Rice to go get?

    His 2009 performance speaks for itself. 2010 he was banged up, yes it was a stupid way to deal with his injury, but he produced when he came back for that limited stretch. Which came to an end with a hit that, frankly, would have put anyone out for a game.

    It's not his production that will make him money, it's his ability. There are very few guys with his skillset in the NFL.

    And it's not like his production has actually been poor, there's just as few people who can say they average a TD every 8 catches.

    We'll really regret it if we lose Rice.

    +1

    Exactly what I feel

    I wouldnt throw the bank at him.. But we need an outside guy..
    I still don't understand why alot of people on here agree with this concept, mostly because of the scheme.

    We just don't need a outside threat.

    Heck, look around the league, most teams have figured out how to stop the likes of the Moss's of the world and if you look at what the Pats did last year, they will continue to move towards the shorter/quicker dink dunk throws and only take a shot or two deep per half.

    What we need is a guy like Rice who can stay healthy and a guy like PH who doesn't miss games because of migranes.

    Mix in a few deep throws to a guy like BB (Iglesias if they deal BB) and you should meet any/all deep threat requirements based on our scheme.

    Back to Rice. My biggest worry on him is his health issues. I think his agent agrees with me on this and thats why we saw him "Protect" himself last year without a long term deal.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,935

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Zeus" #1090065
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090040
    Has Rice not proven that he's a playmaker?
    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3677_A_CHFF_theory_elevated_to_Man_Law.html

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts proposed the shiny hood ornament theory years ago as we grappled with the obsession so many football fans and pigskin “pundits” have with flashy wide receivers.

    The theory has three basic parts.

    ONE – Wide receivers, for all their eye-catching flash and dash, are little more than shiny ornaments on the hood of an NFL offense. Oh, sure, they’re nice to have. But they don’t necessarily make your offense any better – and they rarely if ever make your team any better.

    TWO – You should add a flashy wide receiver only when all the other pieces of a great team are in place: a great driver (the quarterback), some sporty tires that provide plenty of traction (the offensive line and ground game), a powerful motor (the defense) and a great transmission (special teams) that allows you to change gears quickly and effectively.

    THREE – Even the greatest receivers of all time can make a big impact only when all those pieces are in place, and even then the impact is largely overstated. Even the great Jerry Rice, for example, touched the ball just four to five times per game. So the impact of even the greatest at the position is minimal compared with the impact of a certain position that touches the ball on every offensive snap. And remember, Rice did not make the 49ers a great team. He was drafted by the 18-1 defending Super Bowl champ 49ers in 1985.
    =Z=
    Excellent read Z, thanks.

    I guess the only issue I have with this is that without atleast one of those "Flashy" guys, you can see how our offense stalled last year.

    I for one would have loved to see both Rice and PH on the field for the whole 16 games instead of what we were subjected to last year with respect to WR threats.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings face potential talent drain this offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1090032
    Show me were I said the HC did anything by himself. In the end, I have always said that it is a total staff function. Nothing more, nothing less. Hell, in almost every instance I usually point out when someone says otherwise.
    You only said he did things himself when they worked, which was seldom. It is the people who actually talk to the Vikings and see the internals of the organization who say that Childress had the final say in decisions.

    Here are just a few examples:

    Cutting Robinson on Christmas Eve. That was Childress and Childress alone.
    Cutting Moss. That was Childress and Childress alone. The owners found out from the media that it was all going down. Total staff function my ass.

    Trading Sage. Once again a decision totally on Childress because he knew he was going after Brett to save his ass once again after TJ could not run the offense in his 5th training camp.

    Going to the airport to get Brett the first time. By himself.

    Sending the 3 amigos to get Brett the second time ( Even the coordinators didn't know where their players went)


    Here are a few moves that I believe the FO did in spite of Childress:

    Sign Moss
    Sign Rosenfels.

    How did childress respond? He traded Rosenfels when he clearly was the best QB in camp and he cut Moss without even telling the FO he was doing it.

    And it is also well documented who actually runs the draft. It isn't the Chiller. Its Spielman and he, along with the coaches, approve several players at each position.
    The real deal is the scouts evaluated the players, he told the FO what players he wanted and it was their job to get them. Nothing more, nothing less. He had it written into his contract that HE got final say on all roster moves and you cannot spin it any other way.


    In the end, it isn't like the Chiller ever said, I want this guy go get him. What the rack and stack process that Spielman follows is, I want one of the following 5 players. Get one of them.
    Disagree.




    Barring the Childress word, I again, don't agree. I believe that the staff was, until they opted to go old, were building a team, mostly through the draft that was built to win over the long haul, and not just for today.
    So you are saying that adding one QB who was necessary because their star draft pick was failing and their other old backups had retired or went elsewhere was the whole and complete move that nullified everything they did in the draft? Think that answer over very carefully before you grab the keyboard....



    Were they went wrong was when they quit signing vets that were coming off their first contract (i.e. Shanc) that most of you absolutely hated, cause you didn't know their name, and started trading picks for guys like Rosencopter and relying on has been like the Noodle.
    You cannot continually sign guys to premium contracts and not get into contract trouble at some point because those contracts end up coming due at the same time as the rookies do as you get into the cycle and then you end up losing more players than you normally would, which is the case now and for the next few years as guys like Shank, Hutch, Allen etc end up competing for dollars with guys like Peterson, Harvin etc. It still happens on every team to an extent when they sign FA's but it hits the teams the hardest when they rely too heavily on that method.


    At that point, Yes, I will agree, the staff wasn't building for the future, but rather the now. Go back two years and look at my posts, you will see me harping on those signings for those very same reasons.
    Then we agree.



    And yet 2009 happened. What the last coaching staff couldn't overcome was the rash of injuries and players not playing cause they were protecting themselves.
    2009 didn't happen. The team was theoretically built to win the SB that year and it didn't.

    For that, I blame the FO pukes, not the coaching staff. I blame the staff for not cutting players like the Noodle. Hell, he should have got rid of him when he axed PatsRandy.
    The only thing the FO screwed up was not firing Childress when he cut moss. Why would the Childress cut Brett when he was the one who brought him in? Not only that but he knew what the backup was capable of and he was scared as hell to throw the paper tiger into the ring. The only people on the planet that thought TJ could play were you, Singer and Tad7. Even Childress knew at the beginning of the season that he screwed up and that is why he brought Brett in. And he knew he had no credibility with him so he had to send 3 players to do the dirty work.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Vikings have talent to compete with best
    By Vikes in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-20-2009, 09:44 AM
  2. Weak signals: Several teams face QB issues this offseason
    By Garland Greene in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 02-23-2008, 06:00 AM
  3. C. Rogers circling drain
    By Prophet in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-26-2007, 12:36 PM
  4. Vikings like right tackle's potential
    By singersp in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-23-2006, 12:21 PM
  5. Santonio Holmes circling the drain.
    By Prophet in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-29-2006, 06:37 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •