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  1. #21
    Vikes_King's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    everyone that keeps saying
    "The pass D blew last year" was watching a completely different team that i was


    YES we did poorly in many instances in the terms of passing defense, but, that is statistically.

    The one thing that statistics dont point out is how much stress the pass defenders had on them, with a #1 rushing defense, everyone is going to come out passing a billion times a game.
    Not only that, we were one of the least blitzing teams, those two things together affected our passing defense a lot more than the players we had

    we have a solid group for our DB's, the best way, and in my mind the only real thing we need to do, to improve the pass defense, is improve the pass rush


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  2. #22
    marcosMN is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    everyone that keeps saying
    "The pass D blew last year" was watching a completely different team that i was


    YES we did poorly in many instances in the terms of passing defense, but, that is statistically.

    The one thing that statistics dont point out is how much stress the pass defenders had on them, with a #1 rushing defense, everyone is going to come out passing a billion times a game.
    Not only that, we were one of the least blitzing teams, those two things together affected our passing defense a lot more than the players we had

    we have a solid group for our DB's, the best way, and in my mind the only real thing we need to do, to improve the pass defense, is improve the pass rush
    Um, we had the #1 rush d.

    Yet teams still scored on us enough to win.

    I'd say our pass D did blow prettey effin hard.
    -Sno

  3. #23
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    everyone that keeps saying
    "The pass D blew last year" was watching a completely different team that i was


    YES we did poorly in many instances in the terms of passing defense, but, that is statistically.

    The one thing that statistics dont point out is how much stress the pass defenders had on them, with a #1 rushing defense, everyone is going to come out passing a billion times a game.
    Not only that, we were one of the least blitzing teams, those two things together affected our passing defense a lot more than the players we had

    we have a solid group for our DB's, the best way, and in my mind the only real thing we need to do, to improve the pass defense, is improve the pass rush
    It was statistically the WORST pass defense in the ENTIRE NFL.

    It was horrible. The LB coverage was painful to watch the CB play was bad, and all year long after every game you had to read about the Safteys mistakes.

    The pass defense was as bad as it looked and as bad as the stats said.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  4. #24
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    "Del" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    everyone that keeps saying
    "The pass D blew last year" was watching a completely different team that i was


    YES we did poorly in many instances in the terms of passing defense, but, that is statistically.

    The one thing that statistics dont point out is how much stress the pass defenders had on them, with a #1 rushing defense, everyone is going to come out passing a billion times a game.
    Not only that, we were one of the least blitzing teams, those two things together affected our passing defense a lot more than the players we had

    we have a solid group for our DB's, the best way, and in my mind the only real thing we need to do, to improve the pass defense, is improve the pass rush
    It was statistically the WORST pass defense in the ENTIRE NFL.

    It was horrible. The LB coverage was painful to watch the CB play was bad, and all year long after every game you had to read about the Safteys mistakes.

    The pass defense was as bad as it looked and as bad as the stats said.
    The pass defense was pretty damn bad last year.
    While I tend to agree with Vikes_King in that the biggest problem was our complete lack of pass rush, it was hardly our only problem.

    Our linebackers blew in pass coverage.
    I was laughing yesterday during the "On The Clock" segment for KC when they were highlighting Napo as one of their great acquisitions.
    Every single clip they showed of him was a running play.
    They didn't bother to show any of the passes dumped just over his head when he was playing the zone too close to the line...

    With Greenway and James coming back, I think we will see a significant improvement in our pass defense.
    Hell, it can't be any worse... ;D
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #25
    laujesse is offline Starter
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    The LB pass coverage was painful to watch.
    Harris was horrible in coverage and EJ was not a great deal better. EJ did make up for it by killing people when he got there though.

    D. Thomas has the perfect numbers as far as speed and size for a cover 2 MLB the problem is, he is a clutz. He is the most frustrating player on our team to watch for me. He will fall down or stumble every 3rd play.



    I dont know about the cant be any worse comment...
    : They were good enough to keep us in games last year...
    Tom Powers < Hetero

  6. #26
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    Lack of Stops on Pass D was the problem.

    You got to be able to get stops.

    If you know people are going to pass on you shouldn't you have the upper hand.
    Essentially, you want them to be tempted to run or pass, trick them into thinking they can do both knowing that you can stop them at both.

    Anyway, we need to get stops on 3rd and 9 or 3rd and 15. How is the question?
    Maybe Tomlin was a weak link? LOL

  7. #27
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    "laujesse" wrote:
    The LB pass coverage was painful to watch.
    Harris was horrible in coverage and EJ was not a great deal better. EJ did make up for it by killing people when he got there though.

    D. Thomas has the perfect numbers as far as speed and size for a cover 2 MLB the problem is, he is a clutz. He is the most frustrating player on our team to watch for me. He will fall down or stumble every 3rd play.



    I dont know about the cant be any worse comment...
    : They were good enough to keep us in games last year...
    Our pas defense was not good enough to keep us in games.
    We went 6-10, remember?


    Actually, to be fair, our pass defense did take the brunt of the force since our run defense was so strong, but it still ranked among to lowest in the NFL in every pass category.
    Again, once out pass rush gets going again, and we have a MLB who can actually play the cover 2, we will do much better.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #28
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    The run defense was 'great' last year because so few teams ran the ball against them last year.
    Finding out that the Vikings were very good against the run, teams abandoned the run early in games and did nothing but pass 95% of the remaining plays.

    So, if you consider the number of times teams ran the ball and passed the ball against the Vikings, you realize that the problem is the huge differential in skill sets by Vikings players, OR defensive strategy employed by Tomlin or the MLB calling the formations.

    I would suggest that a better comparison of the Minnesota defense against other teams defenses would be to derive the avg gain per play using an NFL avg for the mix odf passes and runs.
    So, assuming 55% of NFL scrimmage plays are passes, and 45% are runs, the comparison that gives a better picture of the situation is:

    Standardized Avg gain yielded per scrimmage play for a particular NFL team defense =

    ( avg run yds per play x .45 ) + ( avg pass yds per play x .55 )

    The above (comparison of a) standardized avg gain statistic doesn't solve the problem, but it points to the problem.
    Using the above, compare it to the ACTUAL gain yielded.
    Calculate the difference.
    Teams with a high magnitude difference ( positive or negative ) between actual and standardized avg gains have a problem with one area ( pass defense or run defense ) that they need to address.

    In summary, I think the MLB change will benefit the pass defense if Henderson can perform better at MLB than he did under Cottrell's guidance, or if Greenway's speed and pass defense skill is utilized at MLB for all plays or for obvious passing downs.
    Oh, yeah, the pass rush needs to improve, too!
    Hopefully, the return of EJames will help in that area, allowing Udeze to return to his better position.
    The key will be Frazier's ability to determine the best lineup to improve the front 7
    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  9. #29
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    everyone that keeps saying
    "The pass D blew last year" was watching a completely different team that i was


    YES we did poorly in many instances in the terms of passing defense, but, that is statistically.

    The one thing that statistics dont point out is how much stress the pass defenders had on them, with a #1 rushing defense, everyone is going to come out passing a billion times a game.
    Not only that, we were one of the least blitzing teams, those two things together affected our passing defense a lot more than the players we had

    we have a solid group for our DB's, the best way, and in my mind the only real thing we need to do, to improve the pass defense, is improve the pass rush
    Your reasonings make sense and I agree with them.
    However, these are the same reasons as to why the pass defense did blow.
    I don't think anyone saying it was a specific person.
    It was a team effort that combined to be the worst in the league as far as pass defense.
    So I would have to say, Yes, the pass defense blew.

  10. #30
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    Re: Vikings Defense in 2007

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    The run defense was 'great' last year because so few teams ran the ball against them last year.
    Finding out that the Vikings were very good against the run, teams abandoned the run early in games and did nothing but pass 95% of the remaining plays.
    This is just flat out wrong...

    A lotof people subscribed to the belief that our rushing defense only looked good because teams passed more, but that is a fallacy.
    Yes teams did rush against us less than any other team last year, but that doesn't inflate all of the rushing defense stats.

    link

    Teams averaged 21.8 rushing attempts per game against us last season.
    Second was Baltimore with 22.9 and then Pittsburgh with 25.5.
    The extra 1 - 3 rushes Baltimore and Pittsburgh saw per game were hardly significant.

    However, when you look at the average yards per rush, you can see that we definately excelled, despite the slightly fewer number of attempts.
    Opponents averaged 2.8 yards per rush against us, compared to 3.3 and 3.5 against Baltimore and Pittsburgh respectively.

    Instead of saying "The run defense was 'great' last year because so few teams ran the ball against them last year." it is much more appropriate to say "So few teams ran the ball against them last year because the run defense was 'great'".
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

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