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  1. #11
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    Holy crud!
    A star tribune article that didn't want to make me throw my computer monitor out of the house.
    I thought it was a pretty good article as
    quick sum up of the Childress regime, and even got a little man love for my man Tice.
    ;D
    In defense of Childress, (I cannot even believe I am defending Childress), he did believe he was set at quarterback when he took the Vikings job.
    Only to find out that Culpepper's ego had grown to the point where he thought he was the best qb in the NFL, and could make any demands he wanted.

    I believe that the past two seasons have proven that without great wide receivers Culpepper is a below average quarterback.
    And Tice sucked without Moss.
    Where the hell is that stat thread that compared the 2005 (first year without Moss), 2006 and 2007 stats?
    I have searched and it doesn't come up.
    Tice sucked without Moss? We were 8-8 Moss's last year... and 9-7 the next year... without Moss... Hmm... Not sure about your logic on that one.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  2. #12
    vikingivan is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    I do believe the Vikings would have been a better team if they had stuck with Tice longer.
    I think stability is need to be a successful franchise.
    I believe they need to stick with Childress for now to bring stability.
    Great teams don't get new coaches every 2-3 seasons.
    But, if the Vikings don't make the playoffs next season then Childress needs to go.
    Making the playoffs next season will not be easy.
    Playing the AFC south, the toughest division in football.
    We will be lucky to win two of those games, one is more likely.

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    Holy crud!
    A star tribune article that didn't want to make me throw my computer monitor out of the house.

    I thought it was a pretty good article as
    quick sum up of the Childress regime, and even got a little man love for my man Tice.
    ;D
    In defense of Childress, (I cannot even believe I am defending Childress), he did believe he was set at quarterback when he took the Vikings job.
    Only to find out that Culpepper's ego had grown to the point where he thought he was the best qb in the NFL, and could make any demands he wanted.

    I believe that the past two seasons have proven that without great wide receivers Culpepper is a below average quarterback.
    And Tice sucked without Moss.
    Where the hell is that stat thread that compared the 2005 (first year without Moss), 2006 and 2007 stats?
    I have searched and it doesn't come up.
    Tice sucked without Moss? We were 8-8 Moss's last year... and 9-7 the next year... without Moss... Hmm... Not sure about your logic on that one.
    Now wins and losses are the only stat that counts?
    You guys have to have a banner in the top of your threads that say something to the effect that......

    "Stats count for this arguement and not Wins and Losses"
    "Wins and Losses don't count for the is arguement just stats".

    Barring that alert, my logic will always be lost.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "vikingivan" wrote:
    I do believe the Vikings would have been a better team if they had stuck with Tice longer. I think stability is need to be a successful franchise.
    I believe they need to stick with Childress for now to bring stability.
    Great teams don't get new coaches every 2-3 seasons.
    But, if the Vikings don't make the playoffs next season then Childress needs to go.
    Making the playoffs next season will not be easy.
    Playing the AFC south, the toughest division in football.
    We will be lucky to win two of those games, one is more likely.
    I respectfully disagree.
    At
    Tice, by his own admission, was in over his head.
    He spent his entire span as a head coach simply trying to keep Denny's systems in place.
    Unfortunately he doesn't have the ability of Denny, so when something broke down he repaired it the best way he knew how.
    It was the NFL version of keeping a Lamborghini running with duct tape repairs.

    He had no control over the team, and was more of a buddy than a coach.
    Players may have enjoyed playing for him, but they were not learning anything from him or his staff, and they were not getting better.

    To be sure, switching coaches every two years is bad for the team, because you are right - stability is important.
    But keeping Tice, while helping stability, would not have gotten the team anywhere.
    At least with Childress, we have the expectation and hope that the team will continue to get better.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #15
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    Holy crud!
    A star tribune article that didn't want to make me throw my computer monitor out of the house.
    I thought it was a pretty good article as
    quick sum up of the Childress regime, and even got a little man love for my man Tice.
    ;D
    In defense of Childress, (I cannot even believe I am defending Childress), he did believe he was set at quarterback when he took the Vikings job.
    Only to find out that Culpepper's ego had grown to the point where he thought he was the best qb in the NFL, and could make any demands he wanted.

    I believe that the past two seasons have proven that without great wide receivers Culpepper is a below average quarterback.
    And Tice sucked without Moss.
    Where the hell is that stat thread that compared the 2005 (first year without Moss), 2006 and 2007 stats?
    I have searched and it doesn't come up.
    Tice sucked without Moss? We were 8-8 Moss's last year... and 9-7 the next year... without Moss... Hmm... Not sure about your logic on that one.
    Now wins and losses are the only stat that counts?
    You guys have to have a banner in the top of your threads that say something to the effect that......

    "Stats count for this arguement and not Wins and Losses"
    "Wins and Losses don't count for the is arguement just stats".

    Barring that alert, my logic will always be lost.
    ;D
    Yes, it is.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  6. #16
    vikingivan is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    I do believe the Vikings would have been a better team if they had stuck with Tice longer. I think stability is need to be a successful franchise.
    I believe they need to stick with Childress for now to bring stability.
    Great teams don't get new coaches every 2-3 seasons.
    But, if the Vikings don't make the playoffs next season then Childress needs to go.
    Making the playoffs next season will not be easy.
    Playing the AFC south, the toughest division in football.
    We will be lucky to win two of those games, one is more likely.
    I respectfully disagree.
    At
    Tice, by his own admission, was in over his head.
    He spent his entire span as a head coach simply trying to keep Denny's systems in place.
    Unfortunately he doesn't have the ability of Denny, so when something broke down he repaired it the best way he knew how.
    It was the NFL version of keeping a Lamborghini running with duct tape repairs.

    He had no control over the team, and was more of a buddy than a coach.
    Players may have enjoyed playing for him, but they were not learning anything from him or his staff, and they were not getting better.

    To be sure, switching coaches every two years is bad for the team, because you are right - stability is important.
    But keeping Tice, while helping stability, would not have gotten the team anywhere.
    At least with Childress, we have the expectation and hope that the team will continue to get better.
    Where is Denny and his great ability now?
    Tice worked for an owner that would not open his checkbook.
    Red was in it to make money, and there is nothing wrong with that from a business sense.
    He made his $$ and sold the team.
    Tice would have been far more successful under the new ownership.
    My opinion only.

  7. #17
    MaxVike's Avatar
    MaxVike is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    Denny Green just spoke on "The Opening Drive" show, hosted by Randy Cross and Dan Reeves, on Sirius NFL Radio.
    Reeves asked him why he started using the 3 receiver set as "a staple, rather than on 3rd down."
    His point was that they had personnel that could make it work, starting with Jake Reed, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith.
    He was doing it before he drafted Moss, however, it worked best when Moss moved to flanker, CC was in the slot and Reed was receiver, and, of course, Robert Smith running the ball.
    His strategy based on simple math; to force five players to cover his three receivers, dictating to the defense.
    This is EXACTLY what the Patiots have done this year, with much less running; was also one of their points.

    He and Reeves spent a great deal of time focusing on the extreme importance of building a good offensive line, which, of course, Green did.
    Reeves, in particular, has pointed out many times, as has Pat Kirwan, Mike Mayock, Tim Ryan, Brian Baldinger, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Ditka, Dan Marino, Cris Carter, etc., etc., etc., that this Team is on the rise.

    The premise of Souhan's article is shortsighted in my view.
    The Vikes are now closer to the point where they can dictate their will and strategy on a defense than they were a couple of years ago.
    I'm not as interested in comparing Childress' two years with those of Tice...I'm much more interested in looking back to the years when we were in the Playoffs almost annually and comparing where we are.

    His article misses the mark also in that this team is closer, due to the nucleus of 7 Pro-Bowlers (four of which are on the lines) and two solid drafts, to getting back to the Playoffs annually.


    I am, admittedly, a Viking dinosaur, having been up and down with this team since I can remember games (roughly 1967), however, this franchise, indeed, our Team, has a history much richer than comparing and referencing to two years ago...our expectations are higher too.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
    ----------------------------------------------
    As a matter of fact, I do know

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "vikingivan" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    I do believe the Vikings would have been a better team if they had stuck with Tice longer. I think stability is need to be a successful franchise.
    I believe they need to stick with Childress for now to bring stability.
    Great teams don't get new coaches every 2-3 seasons.
    But, if the Vikings don't make the playoffs next season then Childress needs to go.
    Making the playoffs next season will not be easy.
    Playing the AFC south, the toughest division in football.
    We will be lucky to win two of those games, one is more likely.
    I respectfully disagree.
    At
    Tice, by his own admission, was in over his head.
    He spent his entire span as a head coach simply trying to keep Denny's systems in place.
    Unfortunately he doesn't have the ability of Denny, so when something broke down he repaired it the best way he knew how.
    It was the NFL version of keeping a Lamborghini running with duct tape repairs.

    He had no control over the team, and was more of a buddy than a coach.
    Players may have enjoyed playing for him, but they were not learning anything from him or his staff, and they were not getting better.

    To be sure, switching coaches every two years is bad for the team, because you are right - stability is important.
    But keeping Tice, while helping stability, would not have gotten the team anywhere.
    At least with Childress, we have the expectation and hope that the team will continue to get better.
    Where is Denny and his great ability now?
    Tice worked for an owner that would not open his checkbook.
    Red was in it to make money, and there is nothing wrong with that from a business sense.
    He made his $$ and sold the team.
    Tice would have been far more successful under the new ownership.
    My opinion only.
    What is missing here in all of this is the following that must be done by a Head Coach that I don't think Tice had the ability to do.

    a.
    Clearly define a scheme that will be run by the team.
    This is critical as it defines what type of players the front office needs to identify during FA and in the draft so that the coaches have the right talent on the team.
    b.
    Work with the front office personnel to get that type of talent.
    Again, very critical. If that doesn't happen the players drafted or brougth in during FA will not fit the scheme, will be unhappy and will eventually leave.

    Lets go back a few months when I was on the bandwagon of how important the draft is in building a team.
    Look at the draft results this staff had when Tice was the head coach.
    It was abismall.

    Sure some of that had to do alot with the resources (scouts) that Studwell had to work with but it also has alot to do with player requirements being articulated as well.

    I will keep giving props to the front office mostly for the significant increase in talent being drafted as well as thier ability to come right in and produce but alot of credit has to go to the communications between the HC and the front office types.


    Lets not forget how upset both the Chiller and Studwell were after dealing with Foley for a short time.

    Long story short, I believe that same type of confusion reigned during the Tice era as evidenced by thier inablities to draft quality players and heck even get picks on on time.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings claw back to where they once were

    "MaxVike" wrote:
    Denny Green just spoke on "The Opening Drive" show, hosted by Randy Cross and Dan Reeves, on Sirius NFL Radio.
    Reeves asked him why he started using the 3 receiver set as "a staple, rather than on 3rd down."
    His point was that they had personnel that could make it work, starting with Jake Reed, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith.
    He was doing it before he drafted Moss, however, it worked best when Moss moved to flanker, CC was in the slot and Reed was receiver, and, of course, Robert Smith running the ball.
    His strategy based on simple math; to force five players to cover his three receivers, dictating to the defense.
    This is EXACTLY what the Patiots have done this year, with much less running; was also one of their points.

    He and Reeves spent a great deal of time focusing on the extreme importance of building a good offensive line, which, of course, Green did.
    Reeves, in particular, has pointed out many times, as has Pat Kirwan, Mike Mayock, Tim Ryan, Brian Baldinger, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Ditka, Dan Marino, Cris Carter, etc., etc., etc., that this Team is on the rise.

    The premise of Souhan's article is shortsighted in my view.
    The Vikes are now closer to the point where they can dictate their will and strategy on a defense than they were a couple of years ago.
    I'm not as interested in comparing Childress' two years with those of Tice...I'm much more interested in looking back to the years when we were in the Playoffs almost annually and comparing where we are.

    His article misses the mark also in that this team is closer, due to the nucleus of 7 Pro-Bowlers (four of which are on the lines) and two solid drafts, to getting back to the Playoffs annually.


    I am, admittedly, a Viking dinosaur, having been up and down with this team since I can remember games (roughly 1967), however, this franchise, indeed, our Team, has a history much richer than comparing and referencing to two years ago...our expectations are higher too.
    Excellent post my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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