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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Did you read the whole article.
    Seems to echo exactly what I have been saying in numerous threads over the past few weeks........


    "singersp" wrote:
    Eleven regular-season games and six months later, Frazier has shown a clear willingness to adjust.
    The keys have been different looks up front, blitzes and man-to-man coverages mixed with the zone scheme that comes from the Tampa-2 philosophy Minnesota considers its base defense. Now the Tampa-2 is in use less than 50 percent of the time.

    Frazier admits he has found a happy medium
    Frazier's in-season adjustments aren't going to stop opponents from throwing the ball -- especially with veteran cornerback Antoine Winfield (hamstring) having missed three of the past four games -- but it can certainly slow teams down.

    What's this Marrdro? Are my eyes decieving me?
    :P
    Nope they aren't however, you left off the most important para from the article......

    "Having to bring five and six guys, it puts a lot more pressure on your secondary," Frazier said at the time. "If opponents pick it up, they have a chance to have some explosive plays, stay on the field and put your offense in a tough position."
    Isn't that what is really happening when we face teams with Veteran QB's who can make the proper reads, audibles and hit the hot reads in the middle, slants and seams?

    ???

    All I have been saying is that they haven't changed the scheme but have been using more of the LB's blitz package to make up for the lack of pressure on the DL.
    That is not a scheme change my friends.


    IT IS A FRICKEN BANDAID THAT WILL GET EXPOSED AGAIN........
    ;D
    ;D

    Lets hope Kitna and the coaches staff over there in Kitty land don't handle the pressure the way Lord Favreeeee did or you guys will be calling the coaching staff idiots again.

    ;D

    Frazier's in-season adjustments aren't going to stop opponents from throwing the ball -- especially with veteran cornerback Antoine Winfield (hamstring) having missed three of the past four games -- but it can certainly slow teams down. Part of the problem with the Green Bay game was Frazier knew veteran quarterback Brett Favre would be able to handle any changeups thrown at him.
    LOL! Took you long enough?

    Why is it when I keep saying adjustments & tweaks, you cite me as saying changes?

    :P
    A parapraxis perhaps?
    :P
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
    ultravikingfan is offline Administrator
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    Our defense has inexperienced players at DE, RCB, nickel DB, and LB (Greenway). We have two safeties who remain excellent but are just starting to show their age. We don't have a defense right now that can just step on the field and totally intimidate the other team. For now we rely on deception and pressure. Frazier is doing a good job making the most of our defense, with the possible exception of the second GB game. I still think adding more delayed blitzes would help. Also, one of the DTs needs to stay home to prevent step-ups and scrambles.
    Please do not tell me you are knocking Dwight Smith for his age.
    He is only 29.
    Just for comparison, Ed Reed is also 29.

    Our players experience is just fine.
    If Frazier feels they can do it based on what he sees they will do it.


    If we do not blitz then our weak zone defense will once again be torn apart.
    If we are going to always play the role of not giving up the "big one", then we are doomed as usual.

    I do not feel that it is a DT's job to prevent a scramble.
    They are there to put pressure on the QB so he does not have time to get the ball off and then is forced to scramble.
    Seeing QB's run is a good thing.

  3. #23
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    "MNgriff" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Did you read the whole article.
    Seems to echo exactly what I have been saying in numerous threads over the past few weeks........


    "singersp" wrote:
    Eleven regular-season games and six months later, Frazier has shown a clear willingness to adjust.
    The keys have been different looks up front, blitzes and man-to-man coverages mixed with the zone scheme that comes from the Tampa-2 philosophy Minnesota considers its base defense. Now the Tampa-2 is in use less than 50 percent of the time.

    Frazier admits he has found a happy medium
    Frazier's in-season adjustments aren't going to stop opponents from throwing the ball -- especially with veteran cornerback Antoine Winfield (hamstring) having missed three of the past four games -- but it can certainly slow teams down.

    What's this Marrdro? Are my eyes decieving me?
    :P
    Nope they aren't however, you left off the most important para from the article......

    "Having to bring five and six guys, it puts a lot more pressure on your secondary," Frazier said at the time. "If opponents pick it up, they have a chance to have some explosive plays, stay on the field and put your offense in a tough position."
    Isn't that what is really happening when we face teams with Veteran QB's who can make the proper reads, audibles and hit the hot reads in the middle, slants and seams?

    ???

    All I have been saying is that they haven't changed the scheme but have been using more of the LB's blitz package to make up for the lack of pressure on the DL.
    That is not a scheme change my friends.


    IT IS A FRICKEN BANDAID THAT WILL GET EXPOSED AGAIN........
    ;D
    ;D

    Lets hope Kitna and the coaches staff over there in Kitty land don't handle the pressure the way Lord Favreeeee did or you guys will be calling the coaching staff idiots again.

    ;D

    Frazier's in-season adjustments aren't going to stop opponents from throwing the ball -- especially with veteran cornerback Antoine Winfield (hamstring) having missed three of the past four games -- but it can certainly slow teams down. Part of the problem with the Green Bay game was Frazier knew veteran quarterback Brett Favre would be able to handle any changeups thrown at him.
    Good stuff mar and I agree with you. The blitz in the packers game created good pressure but every time favre was able to get the ball out a split second before he'd be hit. Just tearing the D apart. Then on the few bad throws the vikes couldn't capitalize on opportunities. There were a few missed Ints. The TD in the endzone where griff and sharp collided was the story of the game. That being said Kitna holds the ball way too long so vikes should be able to apply pressure and create opportunities. Now if the vikes can just execute on those chances we're made in the shade. Still mar is right. Against good QBs the vikes have to find a way to get consistent pressure with the front 4. If they can't then any good qb will pick them apart, being forced to blitz to apply pressure will only make it worse.
    That's it in a nutshell said the chipmunk.
    Good post.

    The opposite is worse in some ways. When we play coverage without blitzing; average to poor quarterbacks pick us apart.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  4. #24
    BBQ Platypus's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    I'm of the school of thought that says that blitzing is a virtual necessity.
    This team should be blitzing on every down - what's more, they should be giving different looks (like stunts and zone blitzes).
    While Marrdro may be right in saying that more blitzing doesn't constitute a "scheme change" per se, it's still better than the alternative - even against an experienced QB.


    It's a rare defense that succeeds without the blitz - the '85 Bears lived by it, as have the Steelers (who have had a solid D pretty much since time immemorial).
    Tampa Bay was only able to pull off a pure zone based on the fact that they had amazingly talented players - ones who were quick, athletic, AND understanding of their role within their system - at every defensive position, especially the defensive line.
    It's no coincidence that the Tampa defense was at its best when Warren Sapp was in his prime.
    Our line has potential, but it needs a game-breaking defensive end to become a viable disruptive force in the backfield.
    Imagine if our opponents were forced to decide between double-teaming the Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, and Jared Allen (or maybe even Terrell Suggs) each week.

    But the fact is, we don't have either of those guys.
    As a result, we often fail to establish a pass rush with just our front 4.
    And if you've failed to establish a pass rush, you've failed to stop the pass.

    During the Second World War, the British civil defense strategists operated on the basic mantra that "the bomber will always get through."
    That is, no matter how many radar-guided flak cannons they set up, there would inevitably be much more clear sky than flak to fly through.
    The only way to stop the German bombers was to intercept them on their way to their targets - or, better still, to destroy them while they were still on the ground - or, better still, to disrupt and destroy their supply lines, thus giving them fewer bombs to drop and less fuel to get there, in addition to wasting enemy manpower and materiel on anti-air defenses.

    This applies to the comparatively trivial game of football as well as the deadliest and most horrific conflict in human history (imagine that : ).
    There's always more open field than covered field - all that the other team has to do is find a way to put a receiver in that open field (which, judging from the numbers, isn't all that difficult to do against our zone defense).
    You CAN'T defend the field - at least not forever.
    Instead, you go on the attack.
    It's common sense - almost a cliché, really.
    Though I'd like to point out that DISGUISING and FAKING the blitz are just as important - give them lots of different looks.


    "This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff."

  5. #25
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    "BBQ" wrote:
    I'm of the school of thought that says that blitzing is a virtual necessity.
    This team should be blitzing on every down - what's more, they should be giving different looks (like stunts and zone blitzes).
    While Marrdro may be right in saying that more blitzing doesn't constitute a "scheme change" per se, it's still better than the alternative - even against an experienced QB.


    It's a rare defense that succeeds without the blitz - the '85 Bears lived by it, as have the Steelers (who have had a solid D pretty much since time immemorial).
    Tampa Bay was only able to pull off a pure zone based on the fact that they had amazingly talented players - ones who were quick, athletic, AND understanding of their role within their system - at every defensive position, especially the defensive line.
    It's no coincidence that the Tampa defense was at its best when Warren Sapp was in his prime.
    Our line has potential, but it needs a game-breaking defensive end to become a viable disruptive force in the backfield.
    Imagine if our opponents were forced to decide between double-teaming the Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, and Jared Allen (or maybe even Terrell Suggs) each week.

    But the fact is, we don't have either of those guys.
    As a result, we often fail to establish a pass rush with just our front 4.
    And if you've failed to establish a pass rush, you've failed to stop the pass.

    During the Second World War, the British civil defense strategists operated on the basic mantra that "the bomber will always get through."
    That is, no matter how many radar-guided flak cannons they set up, there would inevitably be much more clear sky than flak to fly through.
    The only way to stop the German bombers was to intercept them on their way to their targets - or, better still, to destroy them while they were still on the ground - or, better still, to disrupt and destroy their supply lines, thus giving them fewer bombs to drop and less fuel to get there, in addition to wasting enemy manpower and materiel on anti-air defenses.

    This applies to the comparatively trivial game of football as well as the deadliest and most horrific conflict in human history (imagine that : ).
    There's always more open field than covered field - all that the other team has to do is find a way to put a receiver in that open field (which, judging from the numbers, isn't all that difficult to do against our zone defense).
    You CAN'T defend the field - at least not forever.
    Instead, you go on the attack.
    It's common sense - almost a cliché, really.
    LOL, i wasn't quite sure where you were going with that tangent there.. but WAY TO BRING IT AROUND!!!
    it worked...

    Blitzing is the only way our defense has looked good this year.. i say we keep
    doing it... esp. with EJ busting up the middle like that, straight-blowing up RB's and guards, or whomever.. keep the heat on...

    Plus, our db's seem to be able to cover pretty good when we blitz and tackle fairly well....

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    "BBQ" wrote:
    I'm of the school of thought that says that blitzing is a virtual necessity.
    This team should be blitzing on every down - what's more, they should be giving different looks (like stunts and zone blitzes).
    While Marrdro may be right in saying that more blitzing doesn't constitute a "scheme change" per se, it's still better than the alternative - even against an experienced QB.


    It's a rare defense that succeeds without the blitz - the '85 Bears lived by it, as have the Steelers (who have had a solid D pretty much since time immemorial).
    Tampa Bay was only able to pull off a pure zone based on the fact that they had amazingly talented players - ones who were quick, athletic, AND understanding of their role within their system - at every defensive position, especially the defensive line.
    It's no coincidence that the Tampa defense was at its best when Warren Sapp was in his prime.
    Our line has potential, but it needs a game-breaking defensive end to become a viable disruptive force in the backfield.
    Imagine if our opponents were forced to decide between double-teaming the Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, and Jared Allen (or maybe even Terrell Suggs) each week.

    But the fact is, we don't have either of those guys.
    As a result, we often fail to establish a pass rush with just our front 4.
    And if you've failed to establish a pass rush, you've failed to stop the pass.

    During the Second World War, the British civil defense strategists operated on the basic mantra that "the bomber will always get through."
    That is, no matter how many radar-guided flak cannons they set up, there would inevitably be much more clear sky than flak to fly through.
    The only way to stop the German bombers was to intercept them on their way to their targets - or, better still, to destroy them while they were still on the ground - or, better still, to disrupt and destroy their supply lines, thus giving them fewer bombs to drop and less fuel to get there, in addition to wasting enemy manpower and materiel on anti-air defenses.

    This applies to the comparatively trivial game of football as well as the deadliest and most horrific conflict in human history (imagine that : ).
    There's always more open field than covered field - all that the other team has to do is find a way to put a receiver in that open field (which, judging from the numbers, isn't all that difficult to do against our zone defense).
    You CAN'T defend the field - at least not forever.
    Instead, you go on the attack.
    It's common sense - almost a cliché, really.
    Though I'd like to point out that DISGUISING and FAKING the blitz are just as important - give them lots of different looks.
    Very nice my friend.

    I don't know what I like more, the Terrell Suggs comment/point or how you wove the Second World War strategy.

    Again, very nice.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings' blitzing philosophy: Get them before they get you

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:

    Why is it when I keep saying adjustments & tweaks, you cite me as saying changes?

    :P
    A parapraxis perhaps?
    :P
    Can't you get a shot or a prescription to clear that up?
    :-

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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