Thread: Vikings’ behavior just might not matter - Is the Metrodome all that awful?

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

"Overlord" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"NordicNed" wrote:

Not being from MN, and only having visited the Dome once in my life, it's hard for me to give a true grade on the Dome as a stadium.
I was so pumbed to visit my first home game, they could have been playing on a local land fill area and I still would have enjoyed myself.



But if I take time to remember an look back at it, it is an outdated stadium and does yell to be replaced.



Hell, the new Stadium they built here in East Hartford,CT for the UCONN Football Program, is a nicer stadium than he Dome.
And this is a college level stadium.




I"m not sold that a winning team would be the answer to the problem right now. If the Vikings turn out to be as good as they look on paper right now this season, that would make them a team that outside City's would love to target also, as far as a team in the pickings for a new home.



One good thought may be this,
When the Patriots needed a new stadium, and they where winning, the State of MA. said now way to MR Kraft......Mr. Kraft said to hell with you then, and he then got into bed with our then Govener.
They had a site all laid out and it looked like the deal was going to be done, the Pats would leave MA. and come to CT.
A new stadium would be built on the old airfield that was owened by Pratt & Whitney Aircraft....
Once the deal got this far, MA woke up and gave into everything Kraft wanted....
Sure we got screwd, but the Pats got their new stadium.



Lets just hope that MN wakes up and thinks about what they may truly be losing.




And one thing I liked about the Dome that was a suprise to me, where else in the world can a fan get a Free Blow Job when leaving a game?...
;D

Keep in mind though, that the Pats had had three straight years with a winning record and were 7-5 at the time that the stadium was approved.
I think a winning team does make somewhat of a difference.

And keep in mind that Kraft paid the something like $400 million it cost to build the stadium himself.
The NFL provided financing, but I'm not sure if they provided cash.
The state provided $70 million in infrastructure improvements, but nothing for the stadium.
Basically, the state built better roads to the stadium.
This is actually pretty important since there was really only one poohie road to get to Foxboro.
It's still taxpayer money, but not exactly a windfall for the team considering that Hartford was going to pay for everything.
They've done well on the stadium itself, especially having a good team.

I don't think that's a likely option here.
The cost of building a domed or retractable roof stadium probably doesn't add up with the potential added revenue.

Anyway, I don't mind watching games in the dome, as opposed to other stadiums.
I personally think it's a lot more enjoyable when you're outside, but my main concern would also be with keeping the team in Minnesota rather than just wanting a fancier stadium.

I think that is a good example of what we should do. Offer infrastructure and let them build the stadium

Well, that at least would be more than the state has offered so far.
Which is nothing. Zero. Nada.
Besides, as much as I would love that, I highly doubt that Zygi Wilf has the available capitol to build a stadium on his own.
That is why states normally step in and help.

But even if he has the capitol, from a business point of view why would Zygi Wilf ever do that if there are other communities willing to shoulder soe of the burden.
One of the big reasons that Kraft kept the Patriots in Boston was because the NFL wanted him to keep a team in a high TV market.
That won't be the case here.

Besides, I think that the state should be responsible for some of the stadium cost - they clearly get some benefit from having the teams here.
Income tax on players salaries, sales tax on tickets and merchandise, the intangibles of state prestige, etc...
Why should Wilf personally fund for all of the benefits the state gets?

Some people act like it is a privilege for a professional sports team to play in the state of Minnesota.
That is not correct.
It is the other way around.
It is a privilege for a state to host a professional sports team.
Minnesota needs to be careful not to piss that privilege away.

Blah blah blah, I'll care about the plight of the NFL teams and owners just about the time that my Tuition doesn't go up so dang much every year.
Privilege my butt, as much as I enjoy sports I'm not going to spiral into depression if Wilf feels he can make more money elsewhere, that's his business decision to make.
Sports teams are nice, but they don't make the state run, and as much as it's hard to believe for some Vikings fans people who don't care about sports could care less if the state builds a stadium or not.
If they get a deal done that doesn't screw the tax payers, good, but it's not a big campaign issue for me.

"Schutz" wrote:

Blah blah blah, I'll care about the plight of the NFL teams and owners just about the time that my Tuition doesn't go up so dang much every year.
Privilege my butt, as much as I enjoy sports I'm not going to spiral into depression if Wilf feels he can make more money elsewhere, that's his business decision to make.
Sports teams are nice, but they don't make the state run, and as much as it's hard to believe for some Vikings fans people who don't care about sports could care less if the state builds a stadium or not.
If they get a deal done that doesn't screw the tax payers, good, but it's not a big campaign issue for me.

If we adopted an idiocentric view of everything in politics, nothing would ever get done.
I am willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about the Theatre, yet state funds helped pay for the Gutherie.
I would also be willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about 3M, Best Buy, the xCel energy center, the Twins, Gophers football, state parks, the MOA, publicly funded health care for low income seniors, etc., yet we use state money for all of that.

Part of the responsibility of an elected official is to cast his or her vote in a way that will benefit their contingents as a collective whole.
Sometimes that means funding money into programs that some of the population does not care about because it will improve the general well being or quality of life for the entire community.

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"Schutz" wrote:

Blah blah blah, I'll care about the plight of the NFL teams and owners just about the time that my Tuition doesn't go up so dang much every year.
Privilege my butt, as much as I enjoy sports I'm not going to spiral into depression if Wilf feels he can make more money elsewhere, that's his business decision to make.
Sports teams are nice, but they don't make the state run, and as much as it's hard to believe for some Vikings fans people who don't care about sports could care less if the state builds a stadium or not.
If they get a deal done that doesn't screw the tax payers, good, but it's not a big campaign issue for me.

If we adopted an idiocentric view of everything in politics, nothing would ever get done.
I am willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about the Theatre, yet state funds helped pay for the Gutherie.
I would also be willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about 3M, Best Buy, the xCel energy center, the Twins, Gophers football, state parks, the MOA, publicly funded health care for low income seniors, etc., yet we use state money for all of that.

Part of the responsibility of an elected official is to cast his or her vote in a way that will benefit their contingents as a collective whole.
Sometimes that means funding money into programs that some of the population does not care about because it will improve the general well being or quality of life for the entire community.

The revenue of the Vikings pales in comparison to the economic impact of the corps. you mentioned and as far that goes, is the Guthrie a privately owned for profit organization? If not you are really not comparing apples to apples.

As far as the Twins, they should have also not gotten more than infrastructure assistance. The Gophers are part of MNSCU and the university as a whole receives state money. That is a good thing. Of course the smart thing would have been for the Vikings to team up with the state and pooled the money for the Stadium to be shared by both teams, but they chose not to. They could have been well on the way to having it built by now.

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"Schutz" wrote:

Blah blah blah, I'll care about the plight of the NFL teams and owners just about the time that my Tuition doesn't go up so dang much every year.
Privilege my butt, as much as I enjoy sports I'm not going to spiral into depression if Wilf feels he can make more money elsewhere, that's his business decision to make.
Sports teams are nice, but they don't make the state run, and as much as it's hard to believe for some Vikings fans people who don't care about sports could care less if the state builds a stadium or not.
If they get a deal done that doesn't screw the tax payers, good, but it's not a big campaign issue for me.

If we adopted an idiocentric view of everything in politics, nothing would ever get done.
I am willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about the Theatre, yet state funds helped pay for the Gutherie.
I would also be willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about 3M, Best Buy, the xCel energy center, the Twins, Gophers football, state parks, the MOA, publicly funded health care for low income seniors, etc., yet we use state money for all of that.

Part of the responsibility of an elected official is to cast his or her vote in a way that will benefit their contingents as a collective whole.
Sometimes that means funding money into programs that some of the population does not care about because it will improve the general well being or quality of life for the entire community.

The revenue of the Vikings pales in comparison to the economic impact of the corps. you mentioned and as far that goes, is the Guthrie a privately owned for profit organization? If not you are really not comparing apples to apples.

As far as the Twins, they should have also not gotten more than infrastructure assistance. The Gophers are part of MNSCU and the university as a whole receives state money. That is a good thing. Of course the smart thing would have been for the Vikings to team up with the state and pooled the money for the Stadium to be shared by both teams, but they chose not to. They could have been well on the way to having it built by now.

Boy do I ever agree with that last statement.
And Red McCheap tried to do exactly that in 2002.
But guess who the hold out was... yup - the State.

Minnesota has done this to themselves.
They have pissed away two seperate proposals, both of which would have cost the state much less than anything that may get approved now.
Let's hope they pull their head out this year, or the eventual cost to the taxpayers will only continue to rise.

EDIT: And for the record, the Guthrie is a professional theatre company.
It IS a privately owned, for profit organization.
I am comparing apples to apples.
www.guthrietheater.org

The MSFC, however, is a publicly owned commission, and the new stadium would be publicly owned too, just like the Metrodome.

Well, the state needs to do something...or else they risk losing the Vikings.
Plain and simple.

It seems to me that they are getting a better deal from Wilf than they got from cheapskate Pohlad as far as who is paying for what, yet they keep pushing him away.
IF Wilf leaves, it won't be for a lack of trying to be fair in his dealings with the Minnesota Legislature.
Vikes fans should vote those opposed out of office and send a message that they need to make this happen.
Otherwise, Minnesota will be watching a THIRD professional franchise move elsewhere.

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"Schutz" wrote:

Blah blah blah, I'll care about the plight of the NFL teams and owners just about the time that my Tuition doesn't go up so dang much every year.
Privilege my butt, as much as I enjoy sports I'm not going to spiral into depression if Wilf feels he can make more money elsewhere, that's his business decision to make.
Sports teams are nice, but they don't make the state run, and as much as it's hard to believe for some Vikings fans people who don't care about sports could care less if the state builds a stadium or not.
If they get a deal done that doesn't screw the tax payers, good, but it's not a big campaign issue for me.

If we adopted an idiocentric view of everything in politics, nothing would ever get done.
I am willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about the Theatre, yet state funds helped pay for the Gutherie.
I would also be willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about 3M, Best Buy, the xCel energy center, the Twins, Gophers football, state parks, the MOA, publicly funded health care for low income seniors, etc., yet we use state money for all of that.

Part of the responsibility of an elected official is to cast his or her vote in a way that will benefit their contingents as a collective whole.
Sometimes that means funding money into programs that some of the population does not care about because it will improve the general well being or quality of life for the entire community.

The revenue of the Vikings pales in comparison to the economic impact of the corps. you mentioned and as far that goes, is the Guthrie a privately owned for profit organization? If not you are really not comparing apples to apples.

As far as the Twins, they should have also not gotten more than infrastructure assistance. The Gophers are part of MNSCU and the university as a whole receives state money. That is a good thing. Of course the smart thing would have been for the Vikings to team up with the state and pooled the money for the Stadium to be shared by both teams, but they chose not to. They could have been well on the way to having it built by now.

Boy do I ever agree with that last statement.
And Red McCheap tried to do exactly that in 2002.
But guess who the hold out was... yup - the State.

Minnesota has done this to themselves.
They have pissed away two seperate proposals, both of which would have cost the state much less than anything that may get approved now.
Let's hope they pull their head out this year, or the eventual cost to the taxpayers will only continue to rise.

EDIT: And for the record, the Guthrie is a professional theatre company.
It IS a privately owned, for profit organization. I am comparing apples to apples.
www.guthrietheater.org

The MSFC, however, is a publicly owned commission, and the new stadium would be publicly owned too, just like the Metrodome.

Well, if you look at how it is classified, the state says a bit differently:

http://www.budget.state.mn.us/budget/capital/2000/final/79212.pdf

[glow=red,2,300]Non-profit arts organizations[/glow] have traditionally relied on a mix of government and
private funding in order to fulfill their missions. There is evidence in recent years
that the state of Minnesota has an interest in helping to meet the capital needs of its
prized cultural organizations. Recently the Minnesota Legislature provided capital
support for the Science Museum of Minnesota, the Children’s Museum, Penumbra
Theatre, the Jungle Theater, and the Paramount Theater in St. Cloud.
Under this proposal, the state would make a partial contribution to the capital costs
of a new multi-stage Guthrie Theater complex. The Guthrie Theater is proposing to
fund 2/3 of the cost of a new facility through contributions from the business
community and the private sector. The Guthrie is requesting the state of Minnesota
to contribute the remaining 1/3 or $25 million. This 33% contribution is requested
because of the rote of the Guthrie Theater in the cultural life of Minnesota and its
service to the state. The full amount of $25 million is being requested in the 2000
state Bonding Bill to assist in design and construction costs.

Now, if you want to talk apples to apples, the Guthrie, which I have no love for nor have I ever attended, proposed in their plan to raise 75 percent privately and asked the state for 25%. That is something I could live with, especially if the Vikings were owned by a state owned group and the money stayed in-state. But face it, Wilf is from NY-NJ and that is where any profit from the team will go anyway. He may pay state taxes, but the profits will be spent in his home state, which does this state nothing.Unless you can provide some documentation that he has made a permanent residence here and that he has moved his assets here.

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"Schutz" wrote:

Blah blah blah, I'll care about the plight of the NFL teams and owners just about the time that my Tuition doesn't go up so dang much every year.
Privilege my butt, as much as I enjoy sports I'm not going to spiral into depression if Wilf feels he can make more money elsewhere, that's his business decision to make.
Sports teams are nice, but they don't make the state run, and as much as it's hard to believe for some Vikings fans people who don't care about sports could care less if the state builds a stadium or not.
If they get a deal done that doesn't screw the tax payers, good, but it's not a big campaign issue for me.

Yet so many people shop at Wal-Mart and don't even think twice about where the profits will flow.
If we adopted an idiocentric view of everything in politics, nothing would ever get done.
I am willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about the Theatre, yet state funds helped pay for the Gutherie.
I would also be willing to bet that there is a substantial percentage of Minnesotans who don't care about 3M, Best Buy, the xCel energy center, the Twins, Gophers football, state parks, the MOA, publicly funded health care for low income seniors, etc., yet we use state money for all of that.

Part of the responsibility of an elected official is to cast his or her vote in a way that will benefit their contingents as a collective whole.
Sometimes that means funding money into programs that some of the population does not care about because it will improve the general well being or quality of life for the entire community.

The revenue of the Vikings pales in comparison to the economic impact of the corps. you mentioned and as far that goes, is the Guthrie a privately owned for profit organization? If not you are really not comparing apples to apples.

As far as the Twins, they should have also not gotten more than infrastructure assistance. The Gophers are part of MNSCU and the university as a whole receives state money. That is a good thing. Of course the smart thing would have been for the Vikings to team up with the state and pooled the money for the Stadium to be shared by both teams, but they chose not to. They could have been well on the way to having it built by now.

Boy do I ever agree with that last statement.
And Red McCheap tried to do exactly that in 2002.
But guess who the hold out was... yup - the State.

Minnesota has done this to themselves.
They have pissed away two seperate proposals, both of which would have cost the state much less than anything that may get approved now.
Let's hope they pull their head out this year, or the eventual cost to the taxpayers will only continue to rise.

EDIT: And for the record, the Guthrie is a professional theatre company.
It IS a privately owned, for profit organization. I am comparing apples to apples.
www.guthrietheater.org

The MSFC, however, is a publicly owned commission, and the new stadium would be publicly owned too, just like the Metrodome.

Well, if you look at how it is classified, the state says a bit differently:

http://www.budget.state.mn.us/budget/capital/2000/final/79212.pdf

[glow=red,2,300]Non-profit arts organizations[/glow] have traditionally relied on a mix of government and
private funding in order to fulfill their missions. There is evidence in recent years
that the state of Minnesota has an interest in helping to meet the capital needs of its
prized cultural organizations. Recently the Minnesota Legislature provided capital
support for the Science Museum of Minnesota, the Children’s Museum, Penumbra
Theatre, the Jungle Theater, and the Paramount Theater in St. Cloud.
Under this proposal, the state would make a partial contribution to the capital costs
of a new multi-stage Guthrie Theater complex. The Guthrie Theater is proposing to
fund 2/3 of the cost of a new facility through contributions from the business
community and the private sector. The Guthrie is requesting the state of Minnesota
to contribute the remaining 1/3 or $25 million. This 33% contribution is requested
because of the rote of the Guthrie Theater in the cultural life of Minnesota and its
service to the state. The full amount of $25 million is being requested in the 2000
state Bonding Bill to assist in design and construction costs.

Now, if you want to talk apples to apples, the Guthrie, which I have no love for nor have I ever attended, proposed in their plan to raise 75 percent privately and asked the state for 25%. That is something I could live with, especially if the Vikings were owned by a state owned group and the money stayed in-state. But face it, Wilf is from NY-NJ and that is where any profit from the team will go anyway. He may pay state taxes, but the profits will be spent in his home state, which does this state nothing.Unless you can provide some documentation that he has made a permanent residence here and that he has moved his assets here.

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

Well, if you look at how it is classified, the state says a bit differently:

http://www.budget.state.mn.us/budget/capital/2000/final/79212.pdf

[glow=red,2,300]Non-profit arts organizations[/glow] have traditionally relied on a mix of government and
private funding in order to fulfill their missions. There is evidence in recent years
that the state of Minnesota has an interest in helping to meet the capital needs of its
prized cultural organizations. Recently the Minnesota Legislature provided capital
support for the Science Museum of Minnesota, the Children’s Museum, Penumbra
Theatre, the Jungle Theater, and the Paramount Theater in St. Cloud.
Under this proposal, the state would make a partial contribution to the capital costs
of a new multi-stage Guthrie Theater complex. The Guthrie Theater is proposing to
fund 2/3 of the cost of a new facility through contributions from the business
community and the private sector. The Guthrie is requesting the state of Minnesota
to contribute the remaining 1/3 or $25 million. This 33% contribution is requested
because of the rote of the Guthrie Theater in the cultural life of Minnesota and its
service to the state. The full amount of $25 million is being requested in the 2000
state Bonding Bill to assist in design and construction costs.

Now, if you want to talk apples to apples, the Guthrie, which I have no love for nor have I ever attended, proposed in their plan to raise 75 percent privately and asked the state for 25%. That is something I could live with, especially if the Vikings were owned by a state owned group and the money stayed in-state. But face it, Wilf is from NY-NJ and that is where any profit from the team will go anyway. He may pay state taxes, but the profits will be spent in his home state, which does this state nothing.Unless you can provide some documentation that he has made a permanent residence here and that he has moved his assets here.

That actually doesn't say anywhere that the Gutherie is a non-profit organization, it just uses them as precedence.
However, I can concede that I may be wrong here.

But back to the Vikings, would you agree to the state paying $250 million and the Vikings/private groups paying the remaining $900 million?
Hey, I would be OK with that.
I have been on record several times that that Vikings should pay the majority.
At least a 25/75 split would be a starting point with the state - that is $250 million more than they have offered up so far.

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

Well, if you look at how it is classified, the state says a bit differently:

http://www.budget.state.mn.us/budget/capital/2000/final/79212.pdf

[glow=red,2,300]Non-profit arts organizations[/glow] have traditionally relied on a mix of government and
private funding in order to fulfill their missions. There is evidence in recent years
that the state of Minnesota has an interest in helping to meet the capital needs of its
prized cultural organizations. Recently the Minnesota Legislature provided capital
support for the Science Museum of Minnesota, the Children’s Museum, Penumbra
Theatre, the Jungle Theater, and the Paramount Theater in St. Cloud.
Under this proposal, the state would make a partial contribution to the capital costs
of a new multi-stage Guthrie Theater complex. The Guthrie Theater is proposing to
fund 2/3 of the cost of a new facility through contributions from the business
community and the private sector. The Guthrie is requesting the state of Minnesota
to contribute the remaining 1/3 or $25 million. This 33% contribution is requested
because of the rote of the Guthrie Theater in the cultural life of Minnesota and its
service to the state. The full amount of $25 million is being requested in the 2000
state Bonding Bill to assist in design and construction costs.

Now, if you want to talk apples to apples, the Guthrie, which I have no love for nor have I ever attended, proposed in their plan to raise 75 percent privately and asked the state for 25%. That is something I could live with, especially if the Vikings were owned by a state owned group and the money stayed in-state. But face it, Wilf is from NY-NJ and that is where any profit from the team will go anyway. He may pay state taxes, but the profits will be spent in his home state, which does this state nothing.Unless you can provide some documentation that he has made a permanent residence here and that he has moved his assets here.

That actually doesn't say anywhere that the Gutherie is a non-profit organization, it just uses them as precedence.
However, I can concede that I may be wrong here.

But back to the Vikings, would you agree to the state paying $250 million and the Vikings/private groups paying the remaining $900 million?
Hey, I would be OK with that.
I have been on record several times that that Vikings should pay the majority.
At least a 25/75 split would be a starting point with the state - that is $250 million more than they have offered up so far.

I would be much more on board with that the state paying 75% for sure. If I remember right at one point when red still had the team the state was going to put up something in that neighborhood but he wanted more. When Wilf came in the stadium cost was at about 350-400 million but then went to 600 and the 900 million and to be honest I think there is a quite a bit of sticker shock over the increase in price. Although from what I understand that cost also includes some retail locations tied into the facility.If that is the case the stadium/parking should be presented as a standalone project to the state and should not include the roof. The state should then offer to pay for infrastructure and utility costs and could use some form of economic incentive fund to cover a part of the cost and then they should also put some TIF money on the table and let the Wilfs take care of the rest.

If you look closely at the way the Guthrie that you mentioned operates, they generate a large amount of their capital by using pledge drives and through donations. That may be something that the team looks into. Possibly a PP.O tin cup to pass around or something Unless they scale back or raise the amount they are pledging, I am not hearing favorable news from either the Dems or Reps on the stadium issue.

its funny how the twinkies got their new stadium and all of a sudden Hunter is gone and then they trade off our Best Pitcher and the franchise is really bad. If it wasnt for a rotten division we would be getting our butts killed. At least we are bringing in talent and spending Money not shipping them off after we get the stadium.....heck Johan didnt even show up for the ground breaking I dont even think torii did either. Vikes deserve new stadium and it would bring more $$ to the comunity it would land in if it was moved. Let alone the Jobs to build it and the revenue to keep it around. Even when we are sucking we still fill the stands....unlike the twinkies and wolves.
wining teams fill stands IE WILD & VIKES