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  1. #41
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    purplehelmut is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Dang bleedpurple, someone pee in your Cheerios? Maybe just a bit harsh on a fellow PPOer. It is a bit of a connundrum, but I think teams have to try to win to maintain the integrity of the game. Do you want Peterson to sit out the rest of the games so we have a better chance of losing? Does he not have personal goals and incentives to perform well in every game? Are players not playing for their jobs and livelihoods? I can see playing players down the depth chart to see what we've got once the playoffs are out, but deliberately losing ain't right. And if teams do it, they should be penalized by the league and lose draft position. People can tell if a team is throwing it. I want my team to bust their asses to win everytime they step on the field. The draft isn't the cure all to end all in and of itself- other management and personnel decisions are just as important. Getting a top qb pick isn't iron clad anyway. Plenty of damn good qbs have come in later rounds- probably more than have come in the top one or two picks. And plenty of bad ones have come in the top several picks. I liked beating the frickin' Bears and I hope we beat theRavens Sunday.
    Last edited by purplehelmut; 12-03-2013 at 02:32 PM.

  2. #42
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    Holy shit, you sure told me. I will never see this your way. And, I hope you stay true to your word and rest your case. Good grief.
    Sorry Max,

    I was a bit passionate with my comment but it wasn't meant to offend... and to the rest of you.. I think you somewhat missed my point...

    I am all for guys like AP, Cassell and the rest of them playing their asses off for the sake of winning and finishing strong... I don't blame them for wanting to win.. I said that in my post in so many words... Additionally, if I was on the team of course I'd play hard and try to win.. Hell I lost 5 straight in fantasy football to end the season.. still made the playoffs but I wouldnt' check out regardless of if my team was in last place.. I'm gonna try and win...

    HOWEVER,

    As a fan of my team, I am separating myself from wanting to win and the reality of us needing a Qb badly and missing on one time and time again... If that guy was on the roster then that's different bc then you want him to improve, but I'm tired of bringing in guys past their prime to try and get us over the hump...

    So yeah, deep down, I do want us to loose so we can get a better draft pick and get the QB we need. esp, since the playoffs are out of reach and there are quality guys available... back in 2011 that skins win killed our chances of getting a franchise QB or a ransom of draft picks...

  3. #43
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplehelmut View Post
    Dang bleedpurple, someone pee in your Cheerios? Maybe just a bit harsh on a fellow PPOer. It is a bit of a connundrum, but I think teams have to try to win to maintain the integrity of the game. Do you want Peterson to sit out the rest of the games so we have a better chance of losing? Does he not have personal goals and incentives to perform well in every game? Are players not playing for their jobs and livelihoods? I can see playing players down the depth chart to see what we've got once the playoffs are out, but deliberately losing ain't right. And if teams do it, they should be penalized by the league and lose draft position. People can tell if a team is throwing it. I want my team to bust their asses to win everytime they step on the field. The draft isn't the cure all to end all in and of itself- other management and personnel decisions are just as important. Getting a top qb pick isn't iron clad anyway. Plenty of damn good qbs have come in later rounds- probably more than have come in the top one or two picks. And plenty of bad ones have come in the top several picks. I liked beating the frickin' Bears and I hope we beat theRavens Sunday.
    and to your two other points, yes, you can find quality guys in other rounds... I was all for waiting and taking Dalton or Kappernick when we took ponder bc I felt the value wasn't there... and it's rare but you can find gems later in the draft... But do any of you trust the guys in our front office to find those gems?? Shit we can't even draft a CB in the 2-4th rounds let alone a QB who's harder to evaluate.. So yeah, the closer we are to the front of the draft, the better chances we get a prospect that's less likely to fail in the right situation...

    Knowing our FO we could miss on that guy, but atleast we can all be happy and optimistic about that guy for a few years instead of us all being pissed like when Ponder's name was selected.

    the draft is no exact science but getting a better pick helps.. Plus, there are currently 3 other teams in front of us that need QB's so we either get the 4th best prospect in the draft or mortgage the future with draft picks to move up 2-3 spots like the skins did... I dont' see good options here.

  4. #44
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is online now Posting to P'own
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    and to your two other points, yes, you can find quality guys in other rounds... I was all for waiting and taking Dalton or Kappernick when we took ponder bc I felt the value wasn't there... and it's rare but you can find gems later in the draft... But do any of you trust the guys in our front office to find those gems?? Shit we can't even draft a CB in the 2-4th rounds let alone a QB who's harder to evaluate.. So yeah, the closer we are to the front of the draft, the better chances we get a prospect that's less likely to fail in the right situation...

    Knowing our FO we could miss on that guy, but atleast we can all be happy and optimistic about that guy for a few years instead of us all being pissed like when Ponder's name was selected.

    the draft is no exact science but getting a better pick helps.. Plus, there are currently 3 other teams in front of us that need QB's so we either get the 4th best prospect in the draft or mortgage the future with draft picks to move up 2-3 spots like the skins did... I dont' see good options here.
    Even if we had the #1 or #2 pick, do you trust our coaching staff to effectively utilize their talents and win games?

    We currently have a QB that was drafted as the 12th overall pick... how's that working out?
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    Even if we had the #1 or #2 pick, do you trust our coaching staff to effectively utilize their talents and win games?

    We currently have a QB that was drafted as the 12th overall pick... how's that working out?
    Thats the sad thing, we suffer though another shit season just so they can pick a 7th rd guy #3 over all in the draft.
    Go ahead back up your to close away.

  6. #46
    smegmavike is offline Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    Why? Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick (one I was saying we should have drafted)... Tom Brady was a 6th round pick... Drew Brees was the last pick of the 2nd round... Tony Romo went undrafted altogether...

    Not saying there isn't a ton of talent coming out of the first round, but we need a competent FO and scouting team that can identify talent later in the draft. This is something we sorely lack right now.

    But I agree with MaxVike... the players are busting their a$$ to win now, they're not guaranteed a job next year. Love watching those guys, they're Vikings.
    I have to agree. The teams who win consistently have great QB's, but they also tend to pick late in every draft. The difference is, they also know how to recognize talent in the draft and free agency, as well as how to coach.
    Picking early in the draft only means your team sucks and the men doing the picking are likely the reason why.
    If ownership is incapable of learning from their mistakes or not even able to recognize those mistakes, the franchise is screwed.
    Hire a new GM and give him the power to hire and fire the coaching staff.

  7. #47
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    Its starts with the QB.
    The way I see it is you have to find a Franchise QB. Some teams lucked out and find him in the 3rd. However that is rare. It's not likely. Forget Brees (top of the 2nd), Wilson and Manning. You want a franchise guy you are better off swinging for the fences as high in the first as possible (im not talking about taking the 8th best QB in the first). It's simply. You can stock a team full of late first round Wrs and succed as long as you have the QB. Look at Greenbay... they have been getting crushed since Rodgers went down. WHy? They have a team full of late round players but without a QB....its all for naught.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Its starts with the QB.
    The way I see it is you have to find a Franchise QB. Some teams lucked out and find him in the 3rd. However that is rare. It's not likely. Forget Brees (top of the 2nd), Wilson and Manning. You want a franchise guy you are better off swinging for the fences as high in the first as possible (im not talking about taking the 8th best QB in the first). It's simply. You can stock a team full of late first round Wrs and succed as long as you have the QB. Look at Greenbay... they have been getting crushed since Rodgers went down. WHy? They have a team full of late round players but without a QB....its all for naught.
    Rodgers was the 24th pick of the 2005 Draft. Is he part of the "team full of late first rounders?"

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    Big picture here Max... Just ask the Colts (twice) how loosing worked out for them!.. Would you rather have a chance at the next Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck, or another wasted draft pick on the next Christian Ponder? I rest my case!

    No worries BP. Have you forgotten we have a genius for a GM?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #50
    Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    Ok, so, let's establish something…I'm old. 51, to be exact. I've met numerous Vikes, played golf with; Ahmad Rashad, met Alan Page, Paul Krause, and am friends with Rich Gannon, etc., blah, blah, blah. As stated earlier…you can argue away, but, I will NEVER AGREE WITH YOUR POINT - EVER.

    No matter when, no matter what, if you are a competitor…you play to win the game. No matter when, no matter where, if you are a fan, you want your Team to win - basic, simple, fandome. If you disagree, so be it…I will never waiver from my position. EVER.

    So, if I'm a ranting old man, I simply don't give a fuck…I'm right. SKOL Vikings, let's go!
    Love it. Agree 100%.

    Things I know are true:

    1: Frazier is a terrible Coach.
    2: Musgrave is a terrible Coach.
    3: Williams is....you get the idea.
    4: The Wilf's need to be bought out/replaced. All of them.
    5: Christian ponder is NOT the answer. He's not even the question.
    6: Adrian Peterson is amazing.
    7: Matt Cassell is not the future of the franchise...but he's the best we got right now.
    8: Getting Freeman was a waste.
    9: I almost cried when Walsh missed that FG.
    10: I almost shat when Gould did the same thing.
    11: I did a little happy-dance when we beat Chicago.
    12: The Packers still suck.

    Caine

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