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  1. #21
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Marrdro wrote:
    AngloVike wrote:
    Strib article relating

    Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?
    Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

    Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

    On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.
    Good to see you on the Longwell bandwagon, my friend.Welcome aboard marr, have a beer for the ride.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  2. #22
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Marrdro wrote:
    AngloVike wrote:
    Strib article relating

    Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?
    Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

    Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

    On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.
    I am not seeing the hang-time. I am seeing pretty low line drives that allow the returner to take it out to the 30 yard line consistently.

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Minniman wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    AngloVike wrote:
    Strib article relating

    Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?
    Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

    Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

    On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.
    I am not seeing the hang-time. I am seeing pretty low line drives that allow the returner to take it out to the 30 yard line consistently.
    You are seeing correctly my friend. Its just not as bad as it used to be.

    Kindof a tradeoff I think. Distance vs Hangtime = Something in between.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Kluwe neutralized Bush in the season opener by getting terrific hang time and placing the ball perfectly, which allowed his cover guys to get in position.
    "Great hang time," Childress said. "Typically the people that you see lead in that category in terms of returns not coming up the field are teams that can hang the football high and allow their coverage to get down there. Heís doing a tremendous job and heís doing a tremendous job with that directional kicking."
    Kluwe has always possessed a strong leg but the coaching staff wants him to focus on his hang time.

    "Not just taking it and bombing it," Childress said.

    Said special teams coordinator Brian Murphy: "Heís really worked on becoming a hang-time punter. Heís done an excellent job at it. Heís continuing to develop. Thatís what you need. The punter can beat the return team. Hang time is everything. If you give guys a chance to cover with hang time, your unit will be successful and thatís what Chris is allowing us to do. ...
    Kluwe begins season on strong note

    Could've probably made a new thread or dug up the ole Kluwe threads but I thought this was a good place, especially since we were talking hang time alot in this one.

    Long story short, directional kicking, with hang time is the reason our coverage teams are looking better, not that the coverage teams are better.

    ........snicker....... :P
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    marshallvike wrote:
    Good to see you on the Longwell bandwagon, my friend.Welcome aboard marr, have a beer for the ride.
    Don't get me wrong, still don't like the guy and think we could do better without him on KOffs.

    Just giving him props when he deserves it. That all.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Marrdro wrote:
    marshallvike wrote:
    Good to see you on the Longwell bandwagon, my friend.Welcome aboard marr, have a beer for the ride.
    Don't get me wrong, still don't like the guy and think we could do better without him on KOffs.

    Just giving him props when he deserves it. That all.
    Yeah, I caught that. I was just giving you a little ribbing.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  7. #27
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    I wonder why almost all the discussion has been about kickers instead of the two linemen mentioned?

    Amazing considering that 2% of the Vikings problems are kicking-related and 90% of the Vikings problems are offensive-line related.

    The thread title DOES read "Two Kickers & Two Linemen."

    :woohoo:
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  8. #28
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Infidel wrote:
    I wonder why almost all the discussion has been about kickers instead of the two linemen mentioned?

    Amazing considering that 2% of the Vikings problems are kicking-related and 90% of the Vikings problems are offensive-line related.

    The thread title DOES read "Two Kickers & Two Linemen."

    :woohoo:
    It's great that we are looking at OLmen, but we are not likely to find anyone worth a crap at this time of year. Kickers on the other hand can be found at anytime.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  9. #29
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    There must be a way.....

    There must be one team that's long on O linemen and short on D linemen that could work a deal?

    All we need is a large body that can move its feet.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  10. #30
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    Re: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    AngloVike wrote:
    Strib article relating

    Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?
    Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

    Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

    On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.
    Here's the numbers, just so they're out there. Over the same amount of games.

    All preseason:

    vs. rams

    Kick Ret. Start.
    72 26 24
    71 27 26
    72 36 39 (kicked from 25 yard line)

    Week 2: He had an onside kick, which I'm not including in these stats, as it would skew the averages greatly.

    vs. Seattle
    71 26 25
    65 23 28
    72 20 22
    66 5 14 (line drive kick bounced, but worked)
    66 22 26


    vs. denver
    76 24 18
    77 TB 20
    75 TB 20
    74 26 22
    72 50 48
    67 18 21


    Average:
    dist: ret: starting position.
    71.14 21.64 25.21


    Now, Longwell (Regular Season):

    dis. ret. start:
    week 1:
    72 25 23
    63 25 32
    64 26 20

    Week 2:
    68 18 20
    60 19 29
    73 TB 20

    Week 3:
    62 26 34
    70 28 28
    70 29 29
    71 24 23
    70 35 35

    averages:
    dist. ret. start.
    67.54 23.18 26.63


    Lloyd:
    dist: ret: starting position.
    71.14 21.64 25.21
    Longwell:
    dist. ret. start.
    67.54 23.18 26.63


    TB pct.
    Lloyd: 14%
    Longwell: 9%

    Medians: (with such a small sample size, one or two kicks that are very diferent from the others can skew data)
    Lloyd:
    Dis. ret. start.
    72 23.5 23
    Longwell
    dis. ret. start.
    70 25 28*

    *interesting for the Median of Longwells starting positions.
    20 20 20 23 23 28 29 29 32 34 35
    Everything up to the median was very good, then there was a slew of bad starting spots, but it is what it is.

    Yes, the numbers say Lloyd is a better kickoff guy. But marginally at best. He had only one good game where he consistently hit it deep. the rest were very mediocre.

    Longwell had a great week 1 and 2, but the stats would show week 3, although he had long kicks, something happened. I'd have to look back and see if thats the KO coverage unit, or the kicks causing that. I'd be inclined to think the return team is doing a good job of blocking our intial coverage wave.

    However, is a 1.42 yard difference in average starting position (yes, even including touchbacks) really worth having a "Specialist" just to kickoff?
    I can think of atleast one game were I wish we would have had a cat who could kick it into the Endzone........

    On a side note, I am still not convinced he was trying to kick it deep in pre-season. Again, how do you look at your coverage teams if they don't have to cover anyone?
    Oh please. The numbers don't lie.

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