Thread: Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

Vikes Look At Two Kickers & Two Linemen

Strib article relating

Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?

AngloVike wrote:

Strib article relating

Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?

Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.

The offensive linemen were tackles Scott Kooistra (North Carolina State) and guard Donald Thomas (Connecticut). Kooistra, a seventh-round selection by the Bengals in 2003, also has spent time with the Browns. Thomas was a sixth-round pick of the Dolphins in 2008.

Well, THANK GAWD!!!

All those cards and letters I've been writing must be having an impact at last!!

(I think using crayon helps a lot. A little flair and color never hurt when trying to get the attention of morons.)

:laugh:

Marrdro wrote:

AngloVike wrote:

Strib article relating

Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?

Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.

Here's the numbers, just so they're out there. Over the same amount of games.

All preseason:

vs. rams

Kick Ret. Start.
72 26 24
71 27 26
72 36 39 (kicked from 25 yard line)

Week 2: He had an onside kick, which I'm not including in these stats, as it would skew the averages greatly.

vs. Seattle
71 26 25
65 23 28
72 20 22
66 5 14 (line drive kick bounced, but worked)
66 22 26


vs. denver
76 24 18
77 TB 20
75 TB 20
74 26 22
72 50 48
67 18 21


Average:
dist: ret: starting position.
71.14 21.64 25.21


Now, Longwell (Regular Season):

dis. ret. start:
week 1:
72 25 23
63 25 32
64 26 20

Week 2:
68 18 20
60 19 29
73 TB 20

Week 3:
62 26 34
70 28 28
70 29 29
71 24 23
70 35 35

averages:
dist. ret. start.
67.54 23.18 26.63


Lloyd:
dist: ret: starting position.
71.14 21.64 25.21
Longwell:
dist. ret. start.
67.54 23.18 26.63


TB pct.
Lloyd: 14%
Longwell: 9%

Medians: (with such a small sample size, one or two kicks that are very diferent from the others can skew data)
Lloyd:
Dis. ret. start.
72 23.5 23
Longwell
dis. ret. start.
70 25 28*

*interesting for the Median of Longwells starting positions.
20 20 20 23 23 28 29 29 32 34 35
Everything up to the median was very good, then there was a slew of bad starting spots, but it is what it is.

Yes, the numbers say Lloyd is a better kickoff guy. But marginally at best. He had only one good game where he consistently hit it deep. the rest were very mediocre.

Longwell had a great week 1 and 2, but the stats would show week 3, although he had long kicks, something happened. I'd have to look back and see if thats the KO coverage unit, or the kicks causing that. I'd be inclined to think the return team is doing a good job of blocking our intial coverage wave.

However, is a 1.42 yard difference in average starting position (yes, even including touchbacks) really worth having a "Specialist" just to kickoff?

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

AngloVike wrote:

Strib article relating

Always good to see that they're looking out for upgrading depth or even starters. Wonder if there is concern regarding Longwells leg getting tired as the season goes on?

Based on a couple of articles (in the Rhys Lloyd thread) I think thier intention was to bring him back when our injury issues stabilized.

Not sure if it had anything to do with Shortwells leg wearing out, but that more along the lines of "Touchbacks", especially in the playoffs.

On a side note, Ole Shortwell has got props from me the last two weeks for getting it to the 1/Goal Line with a reasonable amount of hang time. Teams are still getting out close to the 30, but the big ones aren't happening.

Here's the numbers, just so they're out there. Over the same amount of games.

All preseason:

vs. rams

Kick Ret. Start.
72 26 24
71 27 26
72 36 39 (kicked from 25 yard line)

Week 2: He had an onside kick, which I'm not including in these stats, as it would skew the averages greatly.

vs. Seattle
71 26 25
65 23 28
72 20 22
66 5 14 (line drive kick bounced, but worked)
66 22 26


vs. denver
76 24 18
77 TB 20
75 TB 20
74 26 22
72 50 48
67 18 21


Average:
dist: ret: starting position.
71.14 21.64 25.21


Now, Longwell (Regular Season):

dis. ret. start:
week 1:
72 25 23
63 25 32
64 26 20

Week 2:
68 18 20
60 19 29
73 TB 20

Week 3:
62 26 34
70 28 28
70 29 29
71 24 23
70 35 35

averages:
dist. ret. start.
67.54 23.18 26.63


Lloyd:
dist: ret: starting position.
71.14 21.64 25.21
Longwell:
dist. ret. start.
67.54 23.18 26.63


TB pct.
Lloyd: 14%
Longwell: 9%

Medians: (with such a small sample size, one or two kicks that are very diferent from the others can skew data)
Lloyd:
Dis. ret. start.
72 23.5 23
Longwell
dis. ret. start.
70 25 28*

*interesting for the Median of Longwells starting positions.
20 20 20 23 23 28 29 29 32 34 35
Everything up to the median was very good, then there was a slew of bad starting spots, but it is what it is.

Yes, the numbers say Lloyd is a better kickoff guy. But marginally at best. He had only one good game where he consistently hit it deep. the rest were very mediocre.

Longwell had a great week 1 and 2, but the stats would show week 3, although he had long kicks, something happened. I'd have to look back and see if thats the KO coverage unit, or the kicks causing that. I'd be inclined to think the return team is doing a good job of blocking our intial coverage wave.

However, is a 1.42 yard difference in average starting position (yes, even including touchbacks) really worth having a "Specialist" just to kickoff?

I can think of atleast one game were I wish we would have had a cat who could kick it into the Endzone........

On a side note, I am still not convinced he was trying to kick it deep in pre-season. Again, how do you look at your coverage teams if they don't have to cover anyone?

Marrdro wrote:

On a side note, I am still not convinced he was trying to kick it deep in pre-season. Again, how do you look at your coverage teams if they don't have to cover anyone?

You're probably the only one.

He publicly apologized for crappy kicking performances. You don't do that if you're just out there trying to hit it 60 yards.

And why would a guy, who said "He hopes there's room on the roster" for him, not give it 100% during preseason (you know, the only time he'll get a chance).


As well, I went to both the Seattle and the Broncos game. In particular, I paid close attention to him in warmups. He wasn't even hitting it deep in the endzone then. Now yes, maybe he might not be giving 100% in warmups. But then again, how come when a kicker comes to hit a long fieldgoal, the announcers are always saying something like "He was hitting them from 59 during warmups before the game, ....". You don't hit 59 yard field goals without trying.

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

On a side note, I am still not convinced he was trying to kick it deep in pre-season. Again, how do you look at your coverage teams if they don't have to cover anyone?

You're probably the only one.

He publicly apologized for crappy kicking performances. You don't do that if you're just out there trying to hit it 60 yards.

And why would a guy, who said "He hopes there's room on the roster" for him, not give it 100% during preseason (you know, the only time he'll get a chance).


As well, I went to both the Seattle and the Broncos game. In particular, I paid close attention to him in warmups. He wasn't even hitting it deep in the endzone then. Now yes, maybe he might not be giving 100% in warmups. But then again, how come when a kicker comes to hit a long fieldgoal, the announcers are always saying something like "He was hitting them from 59 during warmups before the game, ....". You don't hit 59 yard field goals without trying.

I kindof attributed those comments to him toeing the party line in the hopes that he would be brought back.

The onus should have been on the staff to point out that they were working on coverage stuff and not kicking it out of the endzone.

As to the FG comment. Who knows. Maybe it takes more out of your leg to kick one over the other.

Truth of the matter is, he can kick it deep. His record prior to becoming a Vike is evidence of it. Unless his leg just went to shit, we know he could kick before he got here.

Marrdro wrote:

As to the FG comment. Who knows. Maybe it takes more out of your leg to kick one over the other.

It does. FG's you have two steps to get enough power to boot the ball 60 yards, while kickoffs you can start at full sprint if you really want to.
[/quote]
Truth of the matter is, he can kick it deep. His record prior to becoming a Vike is evidence of it. Unless his leg just went to shit, we know he could kick before he got here.[/quote]

Hmm... that makes sense because its not like players ever just stop performing at a high(ish) level.

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

As to the FG comment. Who knows. Maybe it takes more out of your leg to kick one over the other.

It does. FG's you have two steps to get enough power to boot the ball 60 yards, while kickoffs you can start at full sprint if you really want to.

Truth of the matter is, he can kick it deep. His record prior to becoming a Vike is evidence of it. Unless his leg just went to shit, we know he could kick before he got here.[/quote]

Hmm... that makes sense because its not like players ever just stop performing at a high(ish) level.[/quote]

So far, he's been active for thier last 2 games and has had only 2 chances to kick and both have been Touchbacks.

4th and 4 at TB 37 (Shotgun) M.Moore pass short middle to S.Smith for 37 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 7 6
J.Kasay extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Jansen, Holder-J.Baker. 7 7
.Lloyd kicks 70 yards from CAR 30 to end zone, Touchback

Tampa Carolina box scoreFrom the Carolina Tampa box score

2nd and 1 at CIN 1 J.Stewart up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. 10 6
J.Kasay extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Jansen, Holder-J.Baker. 10 7
R.Lloyd kicks 70 yards from CAR 30 to end zone, Touchback.

From the Bengals/Carolina box score
Bengals - Carolina Box Score

Obviously he can still do it.