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  1. #31
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #32
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.

  3. #33
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
    Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
    Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  4. #34
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    Actually it isn't as rare as you think.

    Goes back to the whole "Leslie" play calling vs "Is it Whinny doing it" discussion.

    Do we blame Leslie, do we blame Whinny, do we blame the MLB? I tend to blame Whinny as you very seldom see Griff or any of the other CBs take thier fist steps to the LOS vice running with the WR.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #35
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I do say that.

    In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

    What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

    Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #36
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
    Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
    Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.
    Would you say that sometimes our S's get caught out of position, and sometimes that happens because of what some people do in front of them?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #37
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I do say that.

    In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

    What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

    Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?
    soo... you think a guy who 'bites on play action' would be better as a S in the cover 2 where there's nobody to clean up his mistake?

  8. #38
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I do say that.

    In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

    What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

    Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?
    soo... you think a guy who 'bites on play action' would be better as a S in the cover 2 where there's nobody to clean up his mistake?
    Good point.

    Going back to what I always say, I've always said that I really think we need to get rid of Whinny. Moving him to S kindof was a "Negate his Play" move at that time.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #39
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I do say that.

    In pass coverage, a Cover 2 CB should keep the WR in front of him, unless, by design, he has to hand him off to the S (usually when a TE or a RB comes out into his zone) as a reciever.

    What I see Whinny do, is bite on the play action and leave his guy to soon. Happens alot IMHO.

    Heck, it happened so much that 2 years ago I advocated moving him to S. Anyone remember that thread?
    soo... you think a guy who 'bites on play action' would be better as a S in the cover 2 where there's nobody to clean up his mistake?
    Good point.

    Going back to what I always say, I've always said that I really think we need to get rid of Whinny. Moving him to S kindof was a "Negate his Play" move at that time.

    Winny is fine in the Cover 2 as a corner. He can cover his zone fairly well, he has good instincts. Where he seems to do poorly is in man cover situations. As well last year he seemed even worse, as I don't think his foot was fine, despite what he claimed, the bears game comes to mind. He can shed blockers, and step up against the run. I think we're spoiled with our run defense, as we don't appreciate how important that is. When our Safeties aren't particualrly good against the run, our corners need to step up. Off tackle and sweep plays, if not properly contained by the corner, can turn real ugly real fast.

    I played corner in high school. One thing they stress is to contain the outside. Just like on punt coverage. Don't let the back get outside of you, or he's gone. Linebackers won't be able to catch a fast back, and usually by the time the safeties get there, its a first down already. A Corner who can position himself so that the runner is forced inside where the LB's can clean up is an asset. Both Winny and Griffen do that well. When Winny was out and Sapp was in, we saw a bit of a dropoff in that department.

  10. #40
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    Re:Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.
    Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

    Now its your turn, get me a quote
    You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

    A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.
    Winfield caught cheating down on the run?
    That would be rare.
    Winfield doesn't get beat over the top very often because he gives up too much cushion.
    That's why he has issues as a cover corner.
    seems right. Winfield doesn't play bump and run very much. Where he excels, is by breaking off his coverage and filling in quickly to stop the carrier. He's got a knack for avoiding blockers and bringing down the ball carrier, both on defense and special teams. He can stay with his guy, unless they're exceptionally fast. He doesn't have the best ball skills though, but he' can make the tackle after the catch, which is another think you (Marrdro) Claim is so important for our corners.
    I agree. That's why I also believe he is the best DB on our team.
    Our issues are primarily at the safety position.
    Johnson scares me and Williams is inconsistant. I actually hope Sanford gets more playing time this season.
    Would you say that sometimes our S's get caught out of position, and sometimes that happens because of what some people do in front of them?
    Yes, sometimes that was the case.
    But Johnson was out of position so much I have a hard time blaming the corner.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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