Thread: Unnamed Opponent Slams McKinnie, Other Vikings

I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

12purplepride28 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

This is true. Peterson is not consistent. He's not a guy who actually averages 4.5 yards a carry. I bet if you took away the top and bottom 10% of his plays, yard-wise, his average would be in the 2's, maybe early 3's.

He also has games where he gets shut down. As well, his fumbles come in spurts. He had what, 6 fumbles this year? I think he had 3 in one game, two in another.. Thats pretty on or off to me. Calling him a hit or miss guy, although maybe not entirely accurate, is certainly not an outlandish claim

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

This is true. Peterson is not consistent. He's not a guy who actually averages 4.5 yards a carry. I bet if you took away the top and bottom 10% of his plays, yard-wise, his average would be in the 2's, maybe early 3's.

He also has games where he gets shut down. As well, his fumbles come in spurts. He had what, 6 fumbles this year? I think he had 3 in one game, two in another.. Thats pretty on or off to me. Calling him a hit or miss guy, although maybe not entirely accurate, is certainly not an outlandish claim

I agree 100% and I'm glad to see other people here realize this now. I've been slammed for saying these things for two years. Like I stated last year Chester Taylor was more of a complete back than AP. I still believe that. I never said AP was bad although many on here took it that way. He is still one of the most dangerous and best players in the league. But that seems to blindside people when assessing him. He has flaws in which he needs to work on.

That being said and I will get ridiculed when I say this, I believe AP has a "breakout" year this year. Many people think he's done that. But what I am talking about is he becomes a better blocker and doesn't fumble as much. I think he improved coming out of the backfield last year and I think he'll be even better this year. IN other words he will become that all around more consistent back.

I look forward to AP having a great season this year.

ejmat wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

12purplepride28 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

jmcdon00 wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

Some good points in there, but alot of rubbish too. Fact is this team has as much talent as any in the league.

The offensive line is not that good, but I really don't recall anyone saying they were. McKinnie shouldn't have made the pro-bowl that is true, but everyone already knows that.

Our recievers are more than just fast. Rice has great hands. Harvin is great after the catch. Berrian brings alot of leadership and experience. One of the most complete groups in the NFL, IMHO.
Adrian Peterson is very rarely famine, most of the time he's feast. Over 1800 hundred yards and 18 tds. He scored TD's in 12 of 16 games last year. In the 4 that he didn't score a TD he had 99yds, 166yds, 98yds, 65yds rushing/recieving. No back has been more consistant over the last 3 years.

Defense, yeah I agree they are stacked up the wazoo with talent.

Secondary, I agree. Not as good as the best defensive line in the NFL. That's really not saying much. Probably the area the team improved the most in the off-season.

They never say the Vikings aren't good.

They point out:
Our OL isn't very good (True)
McKinnie was a joke (True)
Favre bailed us out (True)
Speed at WR (True, I take that to mean more than just a team of Williamson's)
Shanks good(True)
Jimmy K Isn't as good as he was (True)
Dugan's solid (not the word I'd choose, but servicable)
We're good at stopping the run (True)
We can apply pressure (True)
RE, JA and KW are good to great players (True)
LB is a question without EJ (True)
AD is up and down at time (He struggles vs. certain fronts)
Winfield is a beast (True)
Our Secondary is the weak point (True)

What part there did I miss?

He never said winfield was a beast, he said he was the best. I don't think he's the best, I think griffen is better than him in the secondary.

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

I don't know why people say AP is so consistent. If you look at his runs its 1,2,5,-1,1,58,2,1,4,2,-3,1. That's basically exactly why his run analysis looks like, and he never seems to get that many yards against the packers. Both games they shut him down pretty well, the niners did a good job against him, so did the bears and panthers (if I remember correctly).

Fact is, he is very inconsistent at times, but maybe there in lies his consistency? It's 1 in the morning, I can't think right now. I love the vikings, at least we [except rock] all can agree on that.

This is true. Peterson is not consistent. He's not a guy who actually averages 4.5 yards a carry. I bet if you took away the top and bottom 10% of his plays, yard-wise, his average would be in the 2's, maybe early 3's.

He also has games where he gets shut down. As well, his fumbles come in spurts. He had what, 6 fumbles this year? I think he had 3 in one game, two in another.. Thats pretty on or off to me. Calling him a hit or miss guy, although maybe not entirely accurate, is certainly not an outlandish claim

I agree 100% and I'm glad to see other people here realize this now. I've been slammed for saying these things for two years. Like I stated last year Chester Taylor was more of a complete back than AP. I still believe that. I never said AP was bad although many on here took it that way. He is still one of the most dangerous and best players in the league. But that seems to blindside people when assessing him. He has flaws in which he needs to work on.

That being said and I will get ridiculed when I say this, I believe AP has a "breakout" year this year. Many people think he's done that. But what I am talking about is he becomes a better blocker and doesn't fumble as much. I think he improved coming out of the backfield last year and I think he'll be even better this year. IN other words he will become that all around more consistent back.

I look forward to AP having a great season this year.

As far as improving other aspects of his game, Peterson improved. I think Peterson's running game has been going downhill since his rookie season.

It could be just me, but he seemed faster and more explosive his rookie season (He also had a much better line then too).

His ypc average has been dwindling, his y/g average is decreasing. Peterson was on pace to shatter Dickerson's rookie record and top 2000 yards as a rookie until he got hurt.

Part of it might be that teams just didn't know how to shut him down.

marshallvike wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

You know what, their offensive line is not that good. They’re way overrated. It’s unbelievable. If they didn’t have Brett Favre, the number of times he gets them out of trouble is amazing. Left tackle Bryant McKinnie, it’s a joke that he made the Pro Bowl. A joke. …

“They have excellent speed at receiver. They have good balance at tight end—Visanthe Shiancoe can make big plays down the field, and Jimmy Kleinsasser isn’t what he used to be but still gives you a good day’s work. Jeff Dugan is solid. … Adrian Peterson is a little bit feast or famine. I think it will hurt them that they lost Chester Taylor because that was an excellent 1-2 punch. …

“Defensively, they’re solid. They do a good job stopping the run, and they get after the quarterback. Ray Edwards is a good player; Jared Allen is an excellent pass rusher. But Kevin Williams, he’s the best guy they have up front. At linebacker, I don’t know what’s going to happen with E.J. Henderson and his injury. Chad Greenway is a playmaker. …

“In the secondary, Antoine Winfield is a tough, physical tackler and by far their best guy back there. They don’t have a weak defense, but the lowest part of their defense is their secondary. That’s not to say they’re bad. I just don’t think they’re at the same level as the front.”

That seems 100% accurate to me

Other than maybe the Winfield comment about being the best guy back there along with the Chester Taylor loss will hurt us comment, yes, I agree.

come on marr. how more proof do you need. stated right here in black and white by an oppoonent who doesn't have the stones to put his name to his comments.
I'm going with it.

Winfield is the best!!!

I like to watch him beat a TE and get the tackle right along with the next guy, but I also know that he has never been lauded as a good "Cover" guy.


The best? Not even on this team my friend. Even ole Asher got him a sack on a CB blitz last year. On a side note, I loved that call by Leslie last year. Double Corner Blitz.

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Has that view changed? Or just for arguments sake today?

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Has that view changed? Or just for arguments sake today?

I have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever said anything of the sort. Go get me a quote.

Again, you take what you think I say and change it to make your point. You been hanging out with Mars I think?

I have always said basically the same thing. I want our CB's to think pass first, run second. Whinny doesn't do that. He gets caught cheating down alot.

Readers digest of my stance.......

In the pass.......I want our our DL to get pressure on the QB, I want our LB'rs to drop into the short zones, and I want our CB's to defend the stuff that comes into thier zones and I want the S's to be ready to take the handoff of those recievers when they go deep.

In the run.....I want everyone to help out as thier role dictates but basically, I want the DL to eat up blockers which should free up our LB'rs to make tackles. I want our DL to get a push off the line and if possible, get tackles for losses. I want our S's willing and able to get in the box and support the run when the first two lines don't work and I want the CB to help if they aren't running with a WR in a route.

The last person who should be looking/thinking run is a CB.

Again, you go find something from me were I said anything other than that.

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Griffen won't be playing most likely to start the season, and will be slow. Winfield is a force out there. He might be a bit of a liability in the pass game, but our run game, and overall defensive attitude really increases when he's in there.

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.

By the way, other than the game were Whinny got injured and guys were shoved in there, our defense played better without him than they did with him.

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Has that view changed? Or just for arguments sake today?

I have never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever said anything of the sort. Go get me a quote.

I'm not going searching, but you have. Especially a year or two ago when we were hard on Griffen for the most part. People claim our secondary sucks, and you bring out the whole line about how our scheme doesn't call for a shut-down type of player.

Again, you take what you think I say and change it to make your point. You been hanging out with Mars I think?

This isn't new. You say something, then go back on it later and claim you never said it.

I have always said basically the same thing.

Now its your turn, get me a quote

i_bleed_purple wrote:

Funny, in regards to sticking up for our lack of interceptions, etc. You are the first to claim that Cover 2 corner's primary responsibility are flat zones and Run Support, saying they aren't, and will never be shutdown corners.

Talking about a Cover 2 CB not being a "Shut Down" corner is one thing, trying to say that I said that about flat zones and run support is another.

Now its your turn, get me a quote

You don't have to go far. Look in the post a few above this. Basically what I say all the time about Whinny.....

A force at what? The run game? He's a CB. I want my CB's to defend the pass, not get caught cheating down on the run when they should be playing pass.