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Thread: Udeze update

  1. #21
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Udeze update

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    Your amount of bias here is pretty obvious Marr. You were an Udeze guy from the start and simply unwilling to admit that the DL didn't miss a beat without him and perhaps even got better. You say they gave us the same results, yet still favor Udeze....Ray has developed very well and is entering his prime, while Kenechi's developement was shaky at best and is coming back from a year off, even if he is 100%.

    The obvious call is to keep Ray in as the starter and use Kenechi on obvious running downs/goaline situations, etc.

    This is not just about sacks vs. run stops. The fact is Ray is better at getting after the QB and also is just as good when it come to stopping the run. Allen and Edwards were rarely spelled this year. The addition of Udeze gives us a "run DL" of Allen-KWill-PWill-Udeze and a "pass DL" of Allen-KWill-Edwards-Robison, with many combinations in between.

    Of our 4 DEs though, Allen and Edwards are the most versatile, and therefore should see the most time.
    I agree with the size of the DE argument, however, Udeze should start if he's back to 100%... He is just a better DE than Edwards, in both run stuffing and getting to the QB...

    With allen there, i see Udeze, if healthy, having about 6-9 sacks next year... without allen he was close so many times years before that..

    and as to Edwards dropping lbs... i would like to see his official weight between the two years, bc i don't believe it..

    and Marr you fail to realize is that Edwards missed atleast 4 games in 2007.. when he was at that lighter weight... so again, saying he was injured bc of gaining weight is ridiculous... and basically just flat out wrong!!!

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Udeze update

    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    lol...

    Say what you want, Robison is a much better DE. He saw SIGNIFCANTLY less playing time than Edwards and only had 2.5 sacks less than him.
    Say what you want about his run blocking problems, the guy was a rookie last season and the coaching staff hasn't let him see the field too much... but that seems to be their M.O..

    Bench the better players.
    There is the quantifier then isn't it.......Quick question, do you know under what circumstances he got those sacks.....Bet it wasn't first and 10.
    Probably a 3rd and long..... :P

    Again, one more time for possible penetration.
    I take nothing away from Rob or Ray for that matter.
    I am just saying that neither one is suited to play the LDE in our base 4-3 defense.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    lol...

    Say what you want, Robison is a much better DE. He saw SIGNIFCANTLY less playing time than Edwards and only had 2.5 sacks less than him.
    Say what you want about his run blocking problems, the guy was a rookie last season and the coaching staff hasn't let him see the field too much... but that seems to be their M.O..

    Bench the better players.
    There is the quantifier then isn't it.......Quick question, do you know under what circumstances he got those sacks.....Bet it wasn't first and 10.
    Probably a 3rd and long..... :P

    Again, one more time for possible penetration.
    I take nothing away from Rob or Ray for that matter.
    I am just saying that neither one is suited to play the LDE in our base 4-3 defense.
    what the hell are you talking about!!!.. they both did it and did it well this past year.... #1 again for the 3rd year in a row.... oh wait, my bad... we did allow 2.5 more yards per game this season, good for a whopping 40 more yards over the course of the season, so i guess, in a way you are right!!.. neither is suited to play LDE!...
    :

  4. #24
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    Re: Udeze update

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I agree with the size of the DE argument, however, Udeze should start if he's back to 100%... He is just a better DE than Edwards, in both run stuffing and getting to the QB...

    With allen there, i see Udeze, if healthy, having about 6-9 sacks next year... without allen he was close so many times years before that..

    and as to Edwards dropping lbs... i would like to see his official weight between the two years, bc i don't believe it..

    and Marr you fail to realize is that Edwards missed atleast 4 games in 2007.. when he was at that lighter weight... so again, saying he was injured bc of gaining weight is ridiculous... and basically just flat out wrong!!!
    He missed games......DUH.
    Equates to a guy that is a "Wave Guy" and not a everydown guy.
    Damn, why didn't I think of that....... :P

    Mr. A posted a link in this thread that described how much weight he added (I think it was that link) but it doesn't work.
    Regardless, we had several discussions on here about him adding 10-15lbs to get up to the desired weight to play LDE this year.

    Of course, I was pretty much against it...... ;D

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...topic=45538.40
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I agree with the size of the DE argument, however, Udeze should start if he's back to 100%... He is just a better DE than Edwards, in both run stuffing and getting to the QB...

    With allen there, i see Udeze, if healthy, having about 6-9 sacks next year... without allen he was close so many times years before that..

    and as to Edwards dropping lbs... i would like to see his official weight between the two years, bc i don't believe it..

    and Marr you fail to realize is that Edwards missed atleast 4 games in 2007.. when he was at that lighter weight... so again, saying he was injured bc of gaining weight is ridiculous... and basically just flat out wrong!!!
    He missed games......DUH.
    Equates to a guy that is a "Wave Guy" and not a everydown guy.
    gol 'darnit, why didn't I think of that....... :P

    Mr. A posted a link in this thread that described how much weight he added (I think it was that link) but it doesn't work.
    Regardless, we had several discussions on here about him adding 10-15lbs to get up to the desired weight to play LDE this year.

    Of course, I was pretty much against it...... ;D

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...topic=45538.40
    Marr, I agree that the trend in the Cover 2 is to have a bigger LDE than RDE.
    I believe that you are correct in the belief that most the LDE faces double teams more than the RDE ( from TEs and RTs). I disagree that the LDE is responsible for runs less than the RDE. I just have never seen anything that says that. I think RDE are typically more likely to get a High sack count because they are comeing from the QB's blind side and typically face one on one blocking assignments(the oline's best blocker). Can you shed some light in where you got this info?

  6. #26
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I agree with the size of the DE argument, however, Udeze should start if he's back to 100%... He is just a better DE than Edwards, in both run stuffing and getting to the QB...

    With allen there, i see Udeze, if healthy, having about 6-9 sacks next year... without allen he was close so many times years before that..

    and as to Edwards dropping lbs... i would like to see his official weight between the two years, bc i don't believe it..

    and Marr you fail to realize is that Edwards missed atleast 4 games in 2007.. when he was at that lighter weight... so again, saying he was injured bc of gaining weight is ridiculous... and basically just flat out wrong!!!
    He missed games......DUH.
    Equates to a guy that is a "Wave Guy" and not a everydown guy.
    gol 'darnit, why didn't I think of that....... :P

    Mr. A posted a link in this thread that described how much weight he added (I think it was that link) but it doesn't work.
    Regardless, we had several discussions on here about him adding 10-15lbs to get up to the desired weight to play LDE this year.

    Of course, I was pretty much against it...... ;D

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...topic=45538.40
    whether that's the prototypical thing or not.... ray ray and Robison did just fine on that side in Udeze's absense... and i think we're set at DE....

    I know what your prototypical wish is... but the fact of the matter, is, it can and has been held down by smaller type players... as it was this year..

    and edwards missed more games at the smaller weight than he did this year at the larger weight.. so in essence, all things being equal, the added weight helped him... along with regards, that players just coming into the league typically get bigger and heavier anyway, just by their bodies actually developing from young man to grown man, the weight regimine, and just getting older...

    so, we agree to disagree!!...
    ;D

  7. #27
    CTVikingfan is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Udeze update

    I just wish Udeze gods speed in recovery and returning

  8. #28
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    Re: Udeze update

    I hope he returns also...what a great one at USC

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Udeze update

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    [quote author=bleedpurple link=topic=50182.msg896589#msg896589 date=1231866566]
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    lol...

    Say what you want, Robison is a much better DE. He saw SIGNIFCANTLY less playing time than Edwards and only had 2.5 sacks less than him.
    Say what you want about his run blocking problems, the guy was a rookie last season and the coaching staff hasn't let him see the field too much... but that seems to be their M.O..

    Bench the better players.
    There is the quantifier then isn't it.......Quick question, do you know under what circumstances he got those sacks.....Bet it wasn't first and 10.
    Probably a 3rd and long..... :P

    Again, one more time for possible penetration.
    I take nothing away from Rob or Ray for that matter.
    I am just saying that neither one is suited to play the LDE in our base 4-3 defense.
    what the hell are you talking about!!!.. they both did it and did it well this past year.... #1 again for the 3rd year in a row.... oh wait, my bad... we did allow 2.5 more yards per game this season, good for a whopping 40 more yards over the course of the season, so i guess, in a way you are right!!.. neither is suited to play LDE!...
    :
    [/quote]
    Can you imagine what thier/our sack totals would have been if both Rob and Ray were allowed to come in on passing downs with fresh legs instead of getting beat up in the base defense stopping the run?

    For the life of me I just don't see why you guys can't get ahold of this concept that is a staple of the 4-3 defensive scheme we run.
    Do I need to go out and repost all the stuff I've posted that amplifies the difference in the positions again?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    lol...

    Say what you want, Robison is a much better DE. He saw SIGNIFCANTLY less playing time than Edwards and only had 2.5 sacks less than him.
    Say what you want about his run blocking problems, the guy was a rookie last season and the coaching staff hasn't let him see the field too much... but that seems to be their M.O..

    Bench the better players.
    There is the quantifier then isn't it.......Quick question, do you know under what circumstances he got those sacks.....Bet it wasn't first and 10.
    Probably a 3rd and long..... :P

    Again, one more time for possible penetration.
    I take nothing away from Rob or Ray for that matter.
    I am just saying that neither one is suited to play the LDE in our base 4-3 defense.
    So... you're arguing with a "Probably"?

    You're "probably" wrong.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

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