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Thread: Udeze update

  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Udeze update

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    I think a full strength Udeze is still a backup to Ray.

    Either way, the rotation of Jared, Ray, Brian, and Kenechi will be awesome.

    Drafting DE would be a total waste of a pick. Our guys are both young and good.
    What?
    You contend that Ray stands up against the run in our base 4-3 than Ray?
    Only way anyone would ever say that is if they believed that the "Sack" stat was more important than holding/sealing the left end against the run in the base defense.

    What the hell have you done with Vunit? ???
    Nothing. I never bought into your whole " LDEs are supposed to stop the run first" kaka del rio argument in the first place. Even so, Ray has played just as well as Udeze did, and has gotten much more pressure on the QB. That may be a product of playing accross from Allen, but I can't knock Ray for that.

    When has Ray faltered at holding/sealing the left end against the run? Our run D was just as good without Udeze. If anything, Ray is more dynamic in his ability to play all four downs, just as Jared is. If you want to spell him on run downs by putting Kenechi in there, I can understand that, but Ray should get the majority of the snaps.
    He has done admirably over there, however, even though you don't buy into it, we saw it in action.
    Taking a guy and beefing him up will make him less reliable health wise.

    Ray played almost the whole season (when he got onto the field) hurt.

    Again, agree or not, the two defensive ends roles in the defenses base scheme are different.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    SKOL's Avatar
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    Wow you know I really hope Udeze can really come back and be an impact. I know there has been some guys in the past that have come back after a situation like that and had good seasons. In the Bronco game Udeze was straight beast, he was really starting to come on. He's definitly monster in the run game and gets some decent Pass Rush. Ray Edwards best watch out, We're stacked at DE.
    I think Ray and Rob are set.
    Wave guys that will really have a impact next year after we get Keneche back and he eats up all the base 4-3 reps against the run.
    Granted Udeze's sack numbers aren't there, but he also led the team in QB hurries a number of years.
    If he makes a complete comeback I'd be very comfortable with our DL.
    He would have done a lot to help us beat the Eagles too, keeping McNabb from rolling right... and the screen that killed us was on his side.

    I'm looking forward to his return.

    The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good -Samuel Johnson - lexicographer
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  3. #13
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    I think a full strength Udeze is still a backup to Ray.

    Either way, the rotation of Jared, Ray, Brian, and Kenechi will be awesome.

    Drafting DE would be a total waste of a pick. Our guys are both young and good.
    What?
    You contend that Ray stands up against the run in our base 4-3 than Ray?
    Only way anyone would ever say that is if they believed that the "Sack" stat was more important than holding/sealing the left end against the run in the base defense.

    What the hell have you done with Vunit? ???
    Nothing. I never bought into your whole " LDEs are supposed to stop the run first" kaka del rio argument in the first place. Even so, Ray has played just as well as Udeze did, and has gotten much more pressure on the QB. That may be a product of playing accross from Allen, but I can't knock Ray for that.

    When has Ray faltered at holding/sealing the left end against the run? Our run D was just as good without Udeze. If anything, Ray is more dynamic in his ability to play all four downs, just as Jared is. If you want to spell him on run downs by putting Kenechi in there, I can understand that, but Ray should get the majority of the snaps.
    He has done admirably over there, however, even though you don't buy into it, we saw it in action.
    Taking a guy and beefing him up will make him less reliable health wise.

    Ray played almost the whole season (when he got onto the field) hurt.

    Again, agree or not, the two defensive ends roles in the defenses base scheme are different.
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that bullshit idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.

  4. #14
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    Re: Udeze update

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that bullshit idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  5. #15
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    Re: Udeze update

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    I think a full strength Udeze is still a backup to Ray.

    Either way, the rotation of Jared, Ray, Brian, and Kenechi will be awesome.

    Drafting DE would be a total waste of a pick. Our guys are both young and good.
    What?
    You contend that Ray stands up against the run in our base 4-3 than Ray?
    Only way anyone would ever say that is if they believed that the "Sack" stat was more important than holding/sealing the left end against the run in the base defense.

    What the hell have you done with Vunit? ???
    Nothing. I never bought into your whole " LDEs are supposed to stop the run first" kaka del rio argument in the first place. Even so, Ray has played just as well as Udeze did, and has gotten much more pressure on the QB. That may be a product of playing accross from Allen, but I can't knock Ray for that.

    When has Ray faltered at holding/sealing the left end against the run? Our run D was just as good without Udeze. If anything, Ray is more dynamic in his ability to play all four downs, just as Jared is. If you want to spell him on run downs by putting Kenechi in there, I can understand that, but Ray should get the majority of the snaps.
    He has done admirably over there, however, even though you don't buy into it, we saw it in action.
    Taking a guy and beefing him up will make him less reliable health wise.

    Ray played almost the whole season (when he got onto the field) hurt.

    Again, agree or not, the two defensive ends roles in the defenses base scheme are different.
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    Seriously, did you watch what happened to our run stopping abilities when Ray went down and the smaller DE went it (Rob)?

    They did what all teams to to defenses that have LDEs light in the ass, they put a big TE over there and ran the ball right at him.


    Long story short, he didn't do well at all in the base defensive snaps.
    Rob, love him to death, is nothing more than a "Wave guy" who will come in and be damn productive when teams are in obvious passing downs.
    Ray is the same sort of character to a point.


    Mark my words, as soon as Keneche comes back Ray will be dropping those pounds so that he can go back to doing what he does best and that isn't trying to be a LDE in the base defense my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
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    Re: Udeze update

    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
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    Re: Udeze update

    don't know if it was posted before, but this was a nice story linked to the udeze article. about his brother and their relationship and the procedure.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=seifert_kevin&id=3467326
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  8. #18
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    lol...

    Say what you want, Robison is a much better DE. He saw SIGNIFCANTLY less playing time than Edwards and only had 2.5 sacks less than him.

    Say what you want about his run blocking problems, the guy was a rookie last season and the coaching staff hasn't let him see the field too much... but that seems to be their M.O..

    Bench the better players.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  9. #19
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    "Hell, even Robison...."?


    FYI... Robison is better than Edwards.
    Quantify that.....

    As a sack artitist or a run stopper?

    Gimme a break.
    Ray stepped in and filled in as a LDE (of of position) much the same as we saw Keneche do a couple of years ago with the same results.

    A bunch of yutz fans now equate that to how good they are, again, based on sacks.
    Sometimes I wonder why fans only look at the "Sexy" stat to base thier opinions on a guy.
    Your amount of bias here is pretty obvious Marr. You were an Udeze guy from the start and simply unwilling to admit that the DL didn't miss a beat without him and perhaps even got better. You say they gave us the same results, yet still favor Udeze....Ray has developed very well and is entering his prime, while Kenechi's developement was shaky at best and is coming back from a year off, even if he is 100%.

    The obvious call is to keep Ray in as the starter and use Kenechi on obvious running downs/goaline situations, etc.

    This is not just about sacks vs. run stops. The fact is Ray is better at getting after the QB and also is just as good when it come to stopping the run. Allen and Edwards were rarely spelled this year. The addition of Udeze gives us a "run DL" of Allen-KWill-PWill-Udeze and a "pass DL" of Allen-KWill-Edwards-Robison, with many combinations in between.

    Of our 4 DEs though, Allen and Edwards are the most versatile, and therefore should see the most time.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
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    Thanks Josdin!

  10. #20
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Udeze update

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=50182.msg896496#msg896496 date=1231857351]
    I think a full strength Udeze is still a backup to Ray.

    Either way, the rotation of Jared, Ray, Brian, and Kenechi will be awesome.

    Drafting DE would be a total waste of a pick. Our guys are both young and good.
    What?
    You contend that Ray stands up against the run in our base 4-3 than Ray?
    Only way anyone would ever say that is if they believed that the "Sack" stat was more important than holding/sealing the left end against the run in the base defense.

    What the hell have you done with Vunit? ???
    Nothing. I never bought into your whole " LDEs are supposed to stop the run first" kaka del rio argument in the first place. Even so, Ray has played just as well as Udeze did, and has gotten much more pressure on the QB. That may be a product of playing accross from Allen, but I can't knock Ray for that.

    When has Ray faltered at holding/sealing the left end against the run? Our run D was just as good without Udeze. If anything, Ray is more dynamic in his ability to play all four downs, just as Jared is. If you want to spell him on run downs by putting Kenechi in there, I can understand that, but Ray should get the majority of the snaps.
    He has done admirably over there, however, even though you don't buy into it, we saw it in action.
    Taking a guy and beefing him up will make him less reliable health wise.

    Ray played almost the whole season (when he got onto the field) hurt.

    Again, agree or not, the two defensive ends roles in the defenses base scheme are different.
    I'm with V on this one... i don't buy into that kaka del rio idea of LDE's need to be a certain size... HELL, even Robison did a decent job in subbing for Edwards when he was hurt....

    I do think Udeze is better than Edwards if he can get back to tip top shape, but regardless, we're set at DE and LDE... Not that it matters, and drafting a DE would be a waste of a pick... unless we draft someone that can play DT and DE... i think DT is a bigger priority than DE by far...

    DE is probably one of the only positions on the team we don't need to address honestly!!!.
    Seriously, did you watch what happened to our run stopping abilities when Ray went down and the smaller DE went it (Rob)?

    They did what all teams to to defenses that have LDEs light in the jiggly butt, they put a big TE over there and ran the ball right at him.


    Long story short, he didn't do well at all in the base defensive snaps.
    Rob, love him to death, is nothing more than a "Wave guy" who will come in and be gol 'darnit productive when teams are in obvious passing downs.
    Ray is the same sort of character to a point.


    Mark my words, as soon as Keneche comes back Ray will be dropping those pounds so that he can go back to doing what he does best and that isn't trying to be a LDE in the base defense My Sexy Little Pixie.
    [/quote]

    Marr what the heck are you talking about.. as i recall Robison started and played just about every down... and westbrook had 38 yards rushing on 20 carries... they as a team had a total of 67 rush yards on 23 carries with a total of 2.9 yards per rush.. which is about on par with where we were at for the season...
    I could see if they racked up the yards, but they didnt... AND WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE PAT WILLIAMS...

    your argument doens't HOLD WATER!!!.. sorry bro!!


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