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  1. #21
    2beersTommy's Avatar
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  2. #22
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    “The guys I have been around that are so-called franchise quarterbacks, weren’t considered franchise quarterbacks until they started winning,” Turner said. “You have to get a guy in that everyone believes in and you start out and put good people around him and find out how far you can go."
    It was obvious that the players did not believe in Ponder last season. Ponder had good people around him, and he became a chuckle-butt.

    “But you know I was with Brad Johnson in Washington and we went to the playoffs, won the division, and people were convinced he couldn’t win a Super Bowl and we let him go to Tampa and the next year he won the Super Bowl. So I think you get a really good player and you give him a really good team and you find out how far you can go.”
    Norv Turner may not realize that Vikings fans may know more about Brad Johnson's career than Norv Turner does.

    Turner said. “I’ve been impressed with Christian and the things he does in terms of his movement. He moves extremely well on the run. He’s made a lot of big plays."
    I am not aware of what film the Vikings have been feeding Turner, but Ponder has missed wide open big plays from misreads and movement. A mobile quarterback that cannot hit open receivers is called a running back.

    "The starting point with any quarterback to me is eliminating those [bad] plays. That would be one of our starting points.”
    Those were the same starting points for Musgrave and Frazier. Eventually, a quarterback has to do more than try to not make mistakes. This handcuffs the offense.

    Norv Turner did do well advancing the careers of Troy Aikman and Philip Rivers, but he also allowed Drew Brees to move on. Perhaps the Brees decision was not his, but Brees will be in the NFL Hall of Fame in the future, and Rivers will not.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    Norv Turner did do well advancing the careers of Troy Aikman and Philip Rivers, but he also allowed Drew Brees to move on. Perhaps the Brees decision was not his, but Brees will be in the NFL Hall of Fame in the future, and Rivers will not.
    Saying Norv advanced the career of Rivers is like saying Frazier or Musgrave advanced the career of AD.

    The Chargers were a 14-2 team with rookie Philip Rivers when Norv took over
    & he simply continued to start an already damn good QB.

    In his 15 years of HCing, he amassed a 115W-124L record (48%) after starting with teams that were 22-26 (46%) the year before he took over.

    In his 5 years of OCing, he amassed a 35W-45L record (39%) after starting with teams that were 21-43 (33%) the year before he took over.

    Give Norv a great or damn good QB & he'll continue to get good play out of them. Give him a Weeden, Campbell, Fiedler or Lucas & he doesn't do much with them.
    Last edited by singersp; 02-16-2014 at 08:06 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #24
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Saying Norv advanced the career of Rivers is like saying Frazier or Musgrave advanced the career of AD.

    The Chargers were a 14-2 team with rookie Philip Rivers when Norv took over
    & he simply continued to start an already damn good QB.

    In his 15 years of HCing, he amassed a 115W-124L record (48%) after starting with teams that were 22-26 (46%) the year before he took over.

    In his 5 years of OCing, he amassed a 35W-45L record (39%) after starting with teams that were 21-43 (33%) the year before he took over.

    Give Norv a great or damn good QB & he'll continue to get good play out of them. Give him a Weeden, Campbell, Fiedler or Lucas & he doesn't do much with them.
    That's just the way it works. Personnel is always the key ingredient to success. Good coaching can get the best out of a player, but a great coach can't turn a turd into a bar of gold.
    Bud Grant always said, "players make coaches".
    Vikings have a few too many turds right now.

  5. #25
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    The news that Ponder will remain on the team makes me very sad... guess it depends on how training camp goes, but it looks like we're still stuck with the same FO that is completely unable to evaluate QB talent.

    Oh well, another year of being a Vikings fan...
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  6. #26
    Ranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    The news that Ponder will remain on the team makes me very sad... guess it depends on how training camp goes, but it looks like we're still stuck with the same FO that is completely unable to evaluate QB talent.

    Oh well, another year of being a Vikings fan...
    He's the only guy we have right now. It'd be a terrible idea not to have at least ONE quarterback on the roster. I imagine we'll draft a guy and will most likely bring another guy in, and either the other vet or Ponder will start until the rookie is ready to play.

  7. #27
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    Cassel WILL be back, I know he's not the real answer either but there is no way Turner,nor Zimmer see anything good from Ponder. They could still pull off a trade as well for Ryan Mallett.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan620 View Post
    Cassel WILL be back, I know he's not the real answer either but there is no way Turner,nor Zimmer see anything good from Ponder. They could still pull off a trade as well for Ryan Mallett.
    I doubt Cassel will be back. I wish he would, but it isn't happening. He was never really given the chances Ponder was last year, and that is why he chose to void his contract and become a free agent. He will get picked up by one of the other teams who needs a veteran QB while their new QB learns the ropes.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I doubt Cassel will be back. I wish he would, but it isn't happening. He was never really given the chances Ponder was last year, and that is why he chose to void his contract and become a free agent. He will get picked up by one of the other teams who needs a veteran QB while their new QB learns the ropes.
    I don't think it is as said and done as that. Thing is, IF he is the starter, Cassel does deserve at least a bit more than the ~4 mil he was slated to earn this year. He might be more willing to come back than you think, as long as the deal includes some sort of built in compensation for games he does start, and maybe even more, if he starts the majority of them over any given season. And, of course, he would probably like a bit more security than a one year deal too.

    I'm saying, offer him the 4 mil/year range with a moderate signing bonus over 3 years, but with a ~$200,000 bonus for each game started, and another 2-3 million bonus at the end of the year if he starts 3/4 or more of the games that season. So, if he is the starter for all 16 games, that 4 mil/year boosts up to around 10.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

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  10. #30
    2beersTommy's Avatar
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    Tom Powers: Vikings' worst-case scenario: Christian Ponder stays - TwinCities.com

    "Spielman probably is waiting until he makes his other quarterback moves before releasing Ponder. I suppose he'd trade him if he could, but Matt Millen is out of the league and I don't see another general manager dumb enough to take him."

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